 jklugman says: Thursday was one of the quietest days in Iraq in the past few weeks. great clip title. I just want to say that this is a perfect example of what i see as a perfect clip...it is a small but very very powerful piece of information clipped from within a larger article. the essence is clearly conveyed...the title and remarks of the clipper are very meaningful. a site visitor can quickly read it, learn something, pop or comment and move on (either to the source to read more or to the next clip). We'll be doing a pretty aggressive experiment next week to see how the site would feel and function if the clips were smaller. Very excited to see how it goes!! That sounds suspicious, eric... I going to be holding onto my woobie. Eric, can you say more about this "aggressive experiment"? we're going to try limiting popping to clips that contain no more than 999 characters. this way, you can still clip whatever you want, but the ones that can be popped to the top must be "clip-size" also, by default comments will not shoot a clip to the top...only pops. i am convinced that the typical length of clips posted here is making the site less enjoyable and meaningful than if we were all more disciplined about our clipping. i hope i have earned enough of your respect to give this a shot and see how it goes. of course, we will be fully collaborative with everyone in guaging the success/failure of the trial. i will certainly post more about this prior to uploading the changes, but hopefully that gives a clear sense of things. Eric, when you say that "by default comments will not shoto a clip to the top...only pops" do you mean that the "sort by" option will be set to "latest pop" but we will be able to change it to "latest clip, pop, or comment"? Eric, since you announced this I have been paying attention to the character count of my clips...I have been finding it very difficult to keep under this count, even though IMO I am still respecting fair use (usually the character count was a little over 999, definitely less than 1500). I definitely think you need to do a character limit to respect fair use/legal issues but I think 999 is too restrictive. It is hard to get a good summary of many moderately-long news articles under 999 characters. I hope this comes off as constructive criticism and not bitching. I intend to do a better job of respecting fair use than I have in the past, but I suspect there will be many times I will not b... hey klugman...yes to your first comment about the sorting options. and i totally hear you about the 999 limit. i think it will be exciting to see how things go. and your feedback is definitely constructive and not bitching. Eric, you praised this particular clip of JK's, which is uncharacteristically short, however his clips seem to vary in size in a quite logical manner, as I hope it is thought mine do. i am convinced that the typical length of clips posted here is making the site less enjoyable and meaningful than if we were all more disciplined about our clipping.Are you getting emailed complaints to this effect, because I don't recall seeing a single complaint on site. I'm still not really getting what this is all about. call it a gut instinct GD...quite honestly i have not heard many complaints (though i have definitely heard some). when we first started this, the goal was to enable people to capture and share bits of information from within web pages that particularly caught one's attention. this is different than using clipmarks to summarize entire articles. i really believe there is great potential in creating a new form of media out of existing media. but what i have in mind pertains particularly to small bits of incredibly compelling information/content. it is a vision i have and i am very eager to at least give it a shot. it is what i had in mind when i first thougth to create clipmarks. i ... So, essentially, I think you're saying that you have, for some time, perhaps since the beginning, been watching The Clip go in directions contrary to your original visiion, and were not sure what, if anything you should do about it until now. Am I on it, or not? I have to express here my enormous appreciation for the privilege of playing in your yard and that you are not the kid who takes his ball home or power trips. You're a great host and a fine even handed person. Remember the preceding when I get all in your face over some bonehead changes. appreciate that GD...will defiintely keep it in mind as you get in my face (always do). i can't say it's something i've been cognizant of all along. i always knew what i hoped to accomplish, just not so sure i realized we were getting away from it. i can't say enough what an honor and thrill it is to be creating this platform that people seem to be enjoying. it's truthfully the thrill of a lifetime! i want clipmarks to be used for whatever people choose to do with it. however, if i never give this a shot i think i'll always wish i did. so, lets give it a go and see how we feel about it. great thing about the web is we can be flexible and try new things for the sake of learning and experimenting. if i never give this a shot i think i'll always wish i did. I think that this far exceeds what ever "we" want to do with it. You've got to go for your vision and purpose for what is your thing.The Clip is your baby, I'm just lobbying for you to make my thing your thing, and for you to be happy about it. egoldstein - One reason, I think, that clips get so long is that you can't always get the "sweet spot" of a page. I like to take bits from the beginning and end of an article, and sometimes the little clipper won't let me do that; it's all or nothing, in some cases. Could there be a fix for that? absolutely pyrogyne. after we introduce some substantial design changes and some of the procedural changes on the site that i've been talking about (that will happen in a couple of days) we'll start working on ways to greatly improve the clipping tool so that the orange lines are more flexible in letting you clip what you want/need. There is a fix, or fixes, for that now, PG. Using the "selection method" combined with the use of Click2Zap, you can structure your clip virtually any way you like when clipping from the vast majority of sites. I prefer the original "struck through" version of Click2Zap, but some prefer the new version called, "MyPage". Try them both and see which you like. Either one will greatly enhance your clipping experience. I clip to enhance my bookmarking. Tell my favorite sites that they can only post 999 characters of what intrests me. Of coarse I could clip multiple individual 999 character clips so instead of 1 clip covering multiple pages for a roundup of what I like, there could be 20 clips of the same site as a series of short clips to make you feel better about your intrest span. I don't clip for you or anyone else. If you pop my clips it's because you liked what I clipped. If not, so what? I'm with you, Skwirly, but it's not our baby, and we can just give our view and hope for the best. IMO they need to do impose a character limit (although I feel 999 is a bit restrictive). It would only be a matter of time before a big content provider sicks their lawyers on Clipmarks or Clipmarks offends a blogger (the latter has already happened). Besides, you do not need to trim your clipmarks to 999 characters for it to be public--it would just not be poppable. Actually, as long as we are using this application its Our baby too. If we don't express our ideas to the developers we get what we deserve. I was here before clips were popped to the top. I've had all types of clips and all types of comments on them. That is NOT why I use ClipMarks. I love to share the WWW with people. There is so much to look at there is no way one person could see it all. When I make a clip public I am sharing what I like, find interesting or wish to discuss. If someone pops it, it's their way of saying "That's pretty kool, others should see this". NOT, "hey this is a short bit of info you can get from any news aggregator and its a great subject go look at the source". Well put, Sir Skwirlinator JK, I think it's a case of overreaction if this is indeed, in part, due to one clueless blogger who either wants to keep his blog semiprivate or just doesn't get how many more will learn of it through the clip. As to the legal possibilities, I would really be shocked if this were a real concern. There are so many pointless legal threats re the web made by those who don't understand it. As long as there is compliance with any cease and desist demands I don't see how there could be any serious issues. How many sites would want to see their name on a Clipmarks' "Idiots that won't allow Clipping" list? Also, JK, you now have the honor of being the owner of what must easily be the most egregiously hijacked clip. lol Yes, I was thinking the same thing. An Example of what ClipLimits would look like would be a better place for this to be discussed. skwirl, i agree that the other clip would be more appropriate for this discussion, but since we're already into it here i'll respond here. my fault for going way off on a tangent with this clip yesterday (sorry klugman). first, i've got to say that i am definitely wrestling with this in my mind and am deeply concerned about disrupting the experience for people. however, i'm not all that concerned with experimenting for a little while and seeing how it goes. just don't see much downside in that. especially since we're not at all affecting people's ability to clip (privatly or publicly), post, add and comment on clips of any size. i hope that through clipmarks more people will be exposed... Well, 'This is a test', and only affecting what can be popped will surely be ok. I only fear the day that you decide how much of a site I think is Clipable. When that day comes Clipmarks will be nothing more than all the other sites that have headlines, comments and RSS. What make Clipmarks the best is the personal configurablilty. If I want to clip an article backwards I can. If I want to leave part out I can. If I want to clip across pages I can. This is personal. I like the idea of comments not bringing the clip at the top, but then again, we may be loosing the charm of chatting because how else you'd be able to quickly follow up on your comments? What make Clipmarks the best is the personal configurablilty. Exactly so, and in addition, and of equally positive and unique distinction, is the emphasis on, and ease of, interaction. This, to me, is really what makes The Clip stand out from, and above, the others. At RawSugar, for instance, you can "clip" or select whatever you wish from a page, including flash, but there is very limited and clumsy possibility of interaction. Consequently, I'm here. If it becomes limited and clumsy here as well, it would seem that Clipmarks would be voluntarily abandoning the advantage. [i]we may be loosing the charm of chatting because how else you'd be able to quickly follow up on your commen... skwirl, the personal aspect of clipmarks you refer to is not and will not be tinkered with. arifsali, everyone who is interested in keeping up with the comments on the site can easily set their sorting options to reflect their preference (you will be able to set your sorting options however you like and they will be remembered). with this idea it is simply a matter of allowing people to opt in to participating in conversations instead of having to opt out. |
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