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Johanna_Gfollowshare
11-15-2009 1:09 PM
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11-17-2009 4:17 PM
n2sooners
I don't get it.
11-17-2009 11:41 PM
Johanna_G
n2, there's many a wall still left to tear down, isn't it?
11-18-2009 4:42 PM
n2sooners
I have a fence around my yard, does that make me a communist?
11-18-2009 11:19 PM
Johanna_G
A fence around your yard does not make you a communist, n2.
But that's not the point.
It's about law, justice, humanity, and the will to establish good-neighbourly relationship:

* Does your fence severely restrict your neighbours, particularly their ability to travel freely within their land?

* Is your fence located mainly on occupied territories?

* Is the barrier an attempt to annex your neighbours' land under the guise of security?

In 2004, the International Court of Justice declared that Israel cannot rely on a right of self‑defence or on a state of necessity in order to preclude the wrongfulness of the construction of the wall. Construction of the barrier is "contrary to international law."
11-19-2009 1:11 AM
n2sooners
International courts are a joke as is the UN and anyone who thinks makes comparisons between the Berlin wall and the wall Israel has built.

For starters, the Berlin wall was built to keep people in, like a prison. Israel built a wall to keep criminals out, like the fence around your yard or the doors on your home.

It's just a shame Israel can't build it high enough to stop the incoming rockets. As it is, it has worked. Wish we would build one.
11-19-2009 1:48 AM
Johanna_G
The Berlin wall was built to keep people in, like a prison; the Israel wall was built to keep people out. That's correct. But what both walls have in common, is iniquitous, inhuman, inimical separation.
You said:

Wish we would build one.
I see. A wall around what? Around the United States of America? With the US armed forces backed out of the rest of the world, sitting on that Great Wall then?
Good luck with such a Splendid Isolation!
11-20-2009 8:07 PM
n2sooners
How is it inhuman to separate yourself from someone who wants to blow you up? Is it inhuman to lock the doors on your house or car to keep out those who don't belong?

Good luck with such a Splendid Isolation!
Are you an isolationist if you shut the door to your home and only entry to those you wish? Securing our borders against those seeking to enter the country illegally is not isolationist, it is simply the smart thing to do. Just ask Mexico, they secure their southern border better than we secure ours.
11-21-2009 12:13 AM
Johanna_G
How is it inhuman to separate yourself from someone who wants to blow you up?
That's in no way inhuman.
Is it inhuman to lock the doors on your house or car to keep out those who don't belong?
No.
But I cannot avoid the impression that you tend to throw the baby out with the bath water.
Nationalists use to suspect the other nations of hostility and perfidy.
Xenophobic paranoia is the quicksand of any peace process.
12-3-2009 12:39 PM
n2sooners
So I'm a nationalist and a xenophobic paranoid because I believe we should simply enforce our borders and our rule of law? I happen to think we should have a better guest worker program. I simply think we should stop those who are making it harder on people who seek to enter this country legally and not give those who broke the law to bypass the line a pass. I have no more problem with legal immigration than I do inviting someone into my home. Where I have the problem is with those who seek to bypass the invite and sneak in under the darkness of night.
12-3-2009 2:36 PM
Johanna_G
You are not totally wrong, n2sooners. But the point in connection with the Palestine conflict is: If you claim the proprietorship of a land after having annexed it, you should set great value upon establishing good-neighbourly relationship. Otherwise you'll live in permanently menacing danger, and your wall must be very high to ward off the gatecrashers.
Notabene, building forts against the native Americans who stroke back at the European intruders was efficacious. But do forts and force morally justify any conquest?
12-11-2009 12:45 PM
Johanna_G
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