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dorinefollowshare
8-10-2007 9:32 AM
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dorine says:
cont'd: In contrast, Britain just pulled its soldiers out of Northern Ireland where they had been, often being shot at, almost 40 years.

That's not the American way.
In Iraq, we don't believe our military is being beaten on the battleground. It's more that there is no formal "battleground." There is the drip of daily casualties and victory is not around the corner. Americans are impatient. We like fast food and fast war.

Americans loved the 1991 Gulf War. It raged for just 100 hours when George H.W. Bush ended it with a declaration of victory. He sent a half-million troops into harm's way and we suffered fewer than 300 deaths.

America likes wars shorter than the World Series.
Bush I did everything right, Bush II did everything wrong - but he did it with the backing of Congress.

Because the war has been a botch so far, Democrats and Republicans are attacking one another, when they aren't attacking themselves. The dialog of discord echoes across America.
19 Comments   | Add a Comment
8-10-2007 9:34 AM
dorine
cont'd:

Turn back to 9/11.

Remember the community of outrage and national resolve? America had not been so united since the first Day of Infamy - 12/7/41.

We knew who the enemy was then.

We knew who the enemy was shortly after 9/11.

Because we have mislaid 9/11, we have endless sideshow squabbles about whether the surge is working, if we are "safer" now, whether the FBI should listen in on foreign phone calls, whether cops should detain odd-acting "flying imams," whether those plotting alleged attacks on Fort Dix or Kennedy airport are serious threats or amateur bumblers. We bicker over the trees while the forest is ablaze.

America's fabric is pulling apart like a cheap sweater.

What ...
8-10-2007 9:55 AM
jatfla
The title is frightening, but the context of what he is saying is so true. All great nations have been destroyed from the inside long before their enemies defeat them.

I don't know about you, but I have no real concept of war, destruction, devastation...other than what I see on TV or the internet. It just does not compute! But I've seen enough to know that I don't want it in my front yard....so personally, I don't need another 9/11 to make me pay attention to need for unity of commitment against those who loudly proclaim their desire to annihilate you and me.
8-10-2007 11:19 AM
arifsali
Because we have mislaid 9/11
What does this mean? I'm lost.
8-10-2007 1:50 PM
ratilfar
Could it be that the division its a result of being misled since 9/11? Picking fights with the wrong adversaries, leaving unfinished business, dumping the whole mess on their allies?

People are "divided" because they where told one thing and ended up with a completely different mess. You will see unity again when the pols in Washington get their act together and fight the war as they should not as part of a grand neo-Imperial project dreamed up by neocon fetishes in their mother's basements while they played with toy soldiers.
8-10-2007 3:08 PM
jatfla
I completely reject your opinions with regard to "a grand neo-imperial project...." but I'll concede that we have *learned a lot of important things since 9/11 (I will not contend that it was "intentional"), but the issue is where we are right now. When we waste time fighting old battles, dredging up past complaints, on both sides, it distracts from dealing with the current climate. Muddled brains and wounded egos do not make for clear thinking that's needed *now*.
8-10-2007 4:29 PM
ratilfar
These are not old battles, these are current battles because the taint everything that is happening (especially dealing with Iran and a possible war there). The truth must come out and be dealt with, only then can progress be made.

As for not agreeing with me, thats ok jatfla, I understand, nobody wants to play the bad guy. We always assume that our side is right, because we don't want to be on the side of wrong. And the neocons are counting on that. I am not going to convince you otherwise and for the sake of sanity and good manners I will not try. Agreed...
8-10-2007 5:58 PM
jatfla
Of course, ratilfar. :~) Just wanted to put my $0.01 in.
8-11-2007 1:08 AM
RecordSage
Actually ratiflar, people aren't divided for the reason you've stated. They're divided due to political agendas getting in the way, perceptions being different and some for the "sake of democracy", the anti-establishment clause.

When reality of 9/11 attack hits - then everyone quickly (unfortunately for a short time only) understands what the threat is and it is one country, after all. Then the cycle repeats, apparently 9/11 wasn't devastating enough for some.

So, as sad as it is, I agree with the headline and have stated (with much regret) the same sentiment somewhere before. You can only turn the other cheek for so long... eventually you decide to retaliate, regardless of other countr...
8-11-2007 2:07 AM
ratilfar
What does the anti-Establishment clause have to do with this?

And what is the nature of the threat, I think everybody understand that (except for a few). Its al-Qaeda fighting a terrorist campaign against the U.S. and its allies, which they believe will liberate their region and open their way for their narrow interpretation of Islam and their wacked out dream of re-establishing the Caliphate (which last time it existed it was run by Turks, who where not very well liked by the Arabs, you know the whole Lawrence of Arabia thing).

Hasn't the U.S. retaliated? What was (and is) the war in Afghanistan about? Going after the perpetrators and their supporters.

The divisions come when people re...
8-11-2007 2:37 AM
skwirlinator
Does America (USA) really need saved?
8-11-2007 3:05 AM
Rioting Drone
Bold skwirlinator. But a good question none the less.
8-11-2007 3:09 AM
skwirlinator
I live here - I see no REAL problems
8-11-2007 3:32 AM
Rioting Drone
Care to share your secret?
8-11-2007 3:34 AM
skwirlinator
I tend to concentrate on things that affect my life directly and one day at a time.
8-11-2007 3:39 AM
Rioting Drone
Just a hypothetical question, but if something has a negative effect due to outside tampering at the state level?
8-11-2007 3:39 AM
Rioting Drone
Please forgive the delay, I am at work right now.
8-11-2007 3:40 AM
skwirlinator
I am still alive and it has happened before - it will happen again
8-11-2007 3:46 AM
Rioting Drone
I appreciate the insight.
8-11-2007 4:36 AM
RecordSage
@ratiflar, yep, you certainly stated it pretty accurately, although I don't understand why so many don't get it.

As for our retaliation, what I meant in my comment is retaliation that would put an end to the whole sorry scenario. NOT the PC war we've been engaged in.

Nobody was sold anything. You keep looking at the pre-war intelligence as the only fact on the table and that's an extremely narrow view on the whole story, which should include the '93 WTC attack, African attacks, USS Cole - all of that was part of the war on us, yet we didn't do anything in return. Afghanistan was the first country, based on what sadam did and was threatening to do, combined with intelligence and desire...
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