 blueridge says: His Unholiness reasserts the pre-Reformation, tyrannical and usurping tradition of Papal authority and Roman Catholic supremacy as if Jesus Christ himself taught or authorized his ceremonial priest-craft and Latin Mass (which is idolatry), where his Blasphemy, through waving his magic wand and reciting Latin formula ( hocus pocus) is able to (if you believe this) transform (transubstantiation) mere wafers of bread ("heil presto"--poof!) into the "body of Christ"! Jesus and the apostles never taught such superstition (which hails from Roman paganism, mixed well in its holidays and ecclesiastical hierarchy). The Pope is following the false teaching of Simon Magus, the sorcerer, instead of Simon Peter the apostle. Ritual, ceremony, miters, crosses, candles, pilgrimages, liturgies, and shepherd staffs all make a show of religion (tracing back to Babylonian religions) contrary to the writings of the new testament. This is why America was founded by Protestants (not Columbus), Reformers, Puritans, and Pilgrims who fled to get free from the bloody persecution and political tyranny of the "holy Roman Catholic church" and its daughter, the Church of England. The colonies were founded largely upon Christian dissent for Christian liberty. This is the principle reason freedom of speech and religion and press were made law, because saying and publishing things like this could subject a person to death, imprisonment, torture, etc. Unfortunately, such freedom to speak plainly against Roman Catholicism is being censured, as if a new Inquisition is being gradually erected again. Most American churche... These doctrinal distinctives among denominations are where we often get the silliest. If you build your group's identity on an idea, and the idea proves to not be too strong, you end up defending the idea with weak arguments, convincing yourself you're right - because to admit you're wrong is to call into question your group's reason for being. Far as I know, most groups do it. Is 22:22 Mt 16:18,19 The Word of the Lord. Sad! Sad, tragic even, considering the consequences. But kind of absurdly funny too. Anyway, thank God that Jesus wasn't a Christian. Yes it is sad. Blueridge is providing excellent examples on how not to witness. Jn 17:21 Efrain, I admire your heart, but I sure would be hard-pressed to read apostolic succession into Mt 16. Isn't it entirely interpretation? I'm not opposed to interpretation, but I am a little queasy about suggesting the Bible itself says things that I can't see it saying. Having said all that, some of the people I admire most - in life today and historically - are Roman Catholics who have been as like Christ as anyone I've ever met (or as I hope to be!) @ masbury Praise God for your question! Interpretation has caused divisions within the Body, so as Catholics we believe that 2 Pt 3:16. Interpretation by the teaching authority (Apostolic succession, aka Magisterium) is necessary to the deposit of faith 2 Thes 2:15. The Magisterium is part of God's threefold revelation, yet subservient to the Scriptures and Sacred Tradition. Here is an old clipmark which better articulates the above mentioned: http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/05458C2D-4C39-4218-A7FE-E39B213571D2/ This is what the Church has taught on Apostolic succession: http://www.catholic.com/library/Apostolic_Succession.asp Efrain: while I treasure much that Roman Catholics have bought to us, I think the hermenutic and historic evidences for the "one true church" argument are thin and circular. That the Bible never says it is clear, so we have to rely on the church saying it about itself, thus: The Roman Catholic church is the one true church because the Roman Catholic church says it is, and since it is the one true church, there can be no serious disagreement with its view that it is the one true church. That seems unlike Jesus, to me, who is about spirit rather than place, and about inclusion rather than exclusion. I sincerely understand and hold the same view as you, that all Christians are united spiritually. But I must stress that the Church was also intended to be, by Christ, visible and reliable in her teachings: Mt 18:17, 1 Tim 3:15. Even though we are all united spiritually, we often times are confronted with conflicting teachings among 30,000 denominations. Even though they all believe in the written Word of God as authoritative, the unity Jesus desires: Jn 17:21, is not there. This imperfect unity cannot be resolved without authority. The Church affirmatively states that she holds the deposit of faith and fullness of truth but not merely because she claims it to be so. This claim to authorit... The imperfect unity, of course, has not been resolved by authority. Nor, I would submit, can authority bring unity - and that is the lesson of Jesus refusal of Satan's three temptations (Henri Nouwen writes beautifully of this). Unity comes only by love. Regardless of our disagreement, I have admired your clips and sensed your tender heart. Cheers, my friend! Read Fox's Book of Martyrs (especially multivolume version) for the history of Roman Catholic church and its persecution against protestant Christians, who rejected her erroneous doctrines, priests, and ceremonies, for a better understanding of its corruptions and abuses. @blueridge I do not deny the persecution or corruption by Catholics against Protestants but Protestants have persecuted Catholics as well. At this point in time, it would be best for us to learn and overcome the tragedies through forgiveness. However, I am curious to what you consider erroneous doctrines and ceremonies. One thing I can assure of is that the doctrines of the Catholic Church do not lead to corruption or abuse. These evils are caused by dissenters who act on their own accord and not through the teachings of the Church. Foxe's notwithstanding, Efraim is right: Protestants have abused Catholics as much as vice versa. As in our day, it is not so much doctrine as religious culture that leads to abuse: witness the abusiveness of the religious right. Abuse seems to flourish when doctrine outweighs becoming like Jesus and caring for others. And of course, Jesus confronted the religious and powerful of his day on exactly that point. |
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