Deportations up 20% since last year.

This is BS and window dressing. Just to make you think they are doing something. America has no attention span. We'll be back to sleep in a few days, they can say the accomplished something, pass an amnesty bill, then we'll be right back where we started. This is a political game.

5-1-2007 10:43 PM

A consequence of this will certainly be the breakup of families where the parents are illegals but the children are US citizens. [1] So much for family friendly policies.

5-1-2007 10:53 PM

JK, That is an emotional appeal. There is nothing that prevents parents taking children back with them. Is There?
The main thing is just secure the damn border. The people already here is non-issue. It should not be in the public conversation until the borders (North and South) are completely sealed.

5-1-2007 11:06 PM

Well, YOU are the expert on emotional appeals ("...you are manipulated by the same materialist philosophy that manipulated Gerrmany to accept eugenics, which led to genocide. This is a new form of hate you materialists are peddling.")

There is nothing that prevents parents taking children back with them.

Nothing? Why the hell did they immigrate to the US in the first place if NOTHING prevents them from taking children back to their home country.

But there is nothing that prevents us from stopping these deportations that break up families.

5-1-2007 11:11 PM

Jailing criminals breaks up families too, but I don't think having kids gives you a blank check to break any law you don't like.

5-1-2007 11:16 PM

The fact you see my statement as an emotional appeal is petty to say the least, given it was related to actual history. I'm sorry if I offended your materialist tendencies to murder and destruction. Live with it. You apparently get quite annoyed when called on your lies.

Nothing? Why the hell did they immigrate to the US in the first place
if NOTHING prevents them from taking children back to their home
country.

But there is nothing that prevents us from stopping these deportations that break up families.

and this is the rant of someone that lacks clear thinking. Incidently, why do you remove your clips where you make a fool of yourself.

5-1-2007 11:32 PM

Jailing criminals breaks up families too, but I don't think having kids gives you a blank check to break any law you don't like.

But we don't jail everyone who has been convicted of breaking the law. And the point is that being here unauthorized is not such a serious crime that it warrants breaking up families.

5-2-2007 12:20 AM

Incidently, why do you remove your clips where you make a fool of yourself.

I have no idea what you are talking about. I have occasionally removed clips, right after I clipped them, because I thought I could do a better job of clipping the material or because I found out it was clipped by someone else before me. When I make mistakes I acknowledge them rather than cover them up. Since many of my clips exceeded the word count they have been retroactively set to private by the Clipmarks staff when they did the recent upgrade. Perhaps it is one of those that you are referring to?

5-2-2007 12:20 AM

Incidently, why do you remove your clips where you make a fool of yourself.

5-2-2007 2:19 AM

But we don't jail everyone who has been convicted of breaking the law. And the point is that being here unauthorized is not such a serious crime that it warrants breaking up families.

So, you believe that having a family should give you a pass for crimes when you don't like the law as long as it isn't too serious? You think the punishment should just be waved because you know how to procreate? I wonder if I could get away with theft, tax evasion, and trespassing just because I have kids?

5-2-2007 9:33 AM

theft & tax evasion = serious crimes (well, they have the potential to be serious crimes)

speeding 5 miles over the speed limit, littering, jaywalking = not so serious crimes. If people who did these things were jailed for 10 years, separating them from their families, I doubt you would just shrug and say "that's the law".

When the immigrant has a family here, with kids who are US citizens, is their violation of the law really so heinous to justify deportation and splitting that family up? You fall back on "that's the law" but that just begs the question of is the law just and reasonable. I don't think it is, and I don't think anyone is well served by splitting these families up--not...

5-2-2007 9:51 AM

If they are here illegally and working then they are either working under the table (tax evasion), or they are working with a SSN that isn't their own (theft/fraud). There is no way they can be here illegally and working without breaking more laws.

5-2-2007 10:01 AM

And as I said, those crimes have the potential to be serious ones. When immigrants evade taxes by working under the table, are they really evading a huge tax bill? Probably not. Evading taxes from wages earned at a crappy job you need to survive? Not a serious crime, in my view.

Obviously we could solve this problem really easily, by changing their legal status. We would seriously cut down on tax evasion and theft/fraud. It would probably be cheaper too, than trying to deport every illegal immigrant. It would also be more humane, especially in instances where you are talking about families with children.

5-2-2007 10:39 AM

So, just because they know how to have sex we should set aside the law for them? There are SIX different guest worker visas you can get to enter this country and work legally, but they chose to thumb their nose at the law and enter illegally, and you think they should be rewarded for this behavior because they didn't bother to use birth control? It isn't the lack of a guest worker program that is the problem, it is the lack of law enforcement and lack of regard for the law by those here working illegally.

BTW, I find it amusing you think identity theft is only a minor crime.

5-2-2007 10:56 AM

There are SIX different guest worker visas you can get to enter this country and work legally,[/url]

Like the visa discussed in this story? I think the fact they opted to avoid a guest worker visa is more due to an appreciation for economic freedom and an aversion to exploitation than a "lack of regard for the law".

Its still not clear whose interest is served by draconian immigration enforcement that has the consequence of splitting up families. Maybe you could clear that up, or maybe you'd rather just attribute things to me that I did not say.

5-2-2007 10:56 AM

That should have been this:

There are SIX different guest worker visas you can get to enter this country and work legally,

Like the visa discussed in this story? I think the fact they opted to avoid a guest worker visa is more due to an appreciation for economic freedom and an aversion to exploitation than a "lack of regard for the law".

Its still not clear whose interest is served by draconian immigration enforcement that has the consequence of splitting up families. Maybe you could clear that up, or maybe you'd rather just attribute things to me that I did not say.

5-2-2007 11:35 AM

To reward those who come here and have sex is just an invitation for more to come here and have sex. Why even have laws if we aren't going to enforce them? We may as well just throw the border open and shut down all security measures as they are a waste of money with the huge security hole that is our southern border. We have plenty of people in jail now and the last thing this country needs is more people with a total disregard for the law.

5-2-2007 3:46 PM

JK
See, I simply engage with an honest question and you respond with insults and more dishonesty. I just cannot understand your utter contempt for facts.
here is proof of the fact that materialists embrace eugenics. Don't like it? tough. You say I appeal to emotion, yet you just prove inconsistency. When in fact your appeals to ignorance and emotion are consistently against the facts.

Also, Thanks for taking the bait. In my entire time at CM I have removed 2 or 3 clips because I discovered someone else had clipped the same thing before me. You link to one clip I removed about a YEAR AGO because some were offended and because the picture w...

5-2-2007 5:33 PM

n2sooners--OK, it seems like you are motivated by "carrying-capacity" concerns--too many people in this country can strain our society in a variety of ways. I guess my concern is that:

(a) it is not clear we are at the point where there are more people living here than we can accommodate
(b) even if this isn't just an abstract concern, I have to wonder if there are less costly & more humane ways to deal with the issue rather than mass deportations. From a purely practical standpoint, sealing our borders & tracking down and deporting illegal immigrants is expensive--perhaps even more expensive than the benefits they would provide. Instead of adopting the punitive measures you advocate, ...

5-2-2007 5:44 PM

Willhelm, this is getting way off-topic. I share some of the blame for this by taking gratuitous swipes at you. I will join you in discussing the issue of this clip but not your perceptions of my philosophy or my emotions, which are of little interest to other people..

5-2-2007 7:00 PM