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hahaha Great Clip. Is this some sort of natural human trait? Never criticize your tribe but hit the rival tribe hard. Do conservative do this also? I cannot think of cases, but then I am of that tribe. A corollary would be, I can criticize my tribe but I will defend against the same criticism from another tribe. Aha......all you hypocritical family value conservatives are all a bunch of faggots! Two things worth pointing out: First, who's ever heard of any of these people? Not me, anyhow. Ann Coulter, however, is a multimillion-selling conservative author who was a featured speaker at CPAC who got a big round of applause for her comments (n2sooners, if you still want to tell me that's not true, go watch it on YouTube). Second, about half of them are people using the word to make a pro-gay point, i.e. by rhetorically putting words in someone else's mouth, or by referring directly or indirectly to himself, kind of like a rapper using the "N-word." Tasteless and ill-advised, yes. Bigoted, no. These two things don't make it OK, in my view. But to try to make the argument, implicitl... Did I ever argue that there is nothing wrong with what Ann said? Quit trying to put words in my mouth. I am arguing that the left is full of a bunch of hypocrites. Daily KOS is one of the largest liberal blogs on the internet. They started a writing campaign to Coulter's advertisers because she said faggot. And unless they consider Edwards being one of them as an insult, she in no way insulted gays in any way other than using that word. Yet that blog itself has used that word more times than Ann. Go look up hypocrisy in the dictionary. The right struck out at Ann for what she said. On the other hand, that type of language is defended and even rewarded on the left. It's the same hypocricy, Newt is a saint because he confessed his sin and didn't lie, but Clinton is Satan because he sinned and lied. Nowhere does anyone care that you're condemning the person for doing something that you yourself did. Playing God is so easy. You know n2, every other person on the street says faggot and niggers, does that make it equal to Limbauh, Hannity, Coulter, calling the same on TV with millions of viewers? Does that compare to unknown average Joe bloggers writing whatever the hec they can write on the ineternet? it probably does in your conservative dictionary. n2sooners, if you're seriously trying to tell me Ann Coulter didn't insult gays with her remarks, you're either lying, or you're completely out of touch with reality. Have you asked any gay people what they think? Have you seen the responses by gay advocacy organizations? And your drawing an equivalence between Coulter and a couple of anonymous posters on Daily Kos is a pretty pathetic attempt to prove "hypocrisy." Are there hypocrites on the left? Yes of course, just like everywhere else. Does the fact that Google can turn up three or four instances of the word "faggot" on Daily Kos prove anything about it? No. Like I said, most of those are cases are either random posters who get beat dow... n2sooners, don't you have a family values conference to attend or an adulteress to visit instead of always trying to create drama on clipmarks? LOL I'm sorry that creating a post that doesn't conform to your view of the world is creating drama. I thought this was a place open to ideas, but it seems to be less and less so. And I think maybe you are sorta right in that there are better ways I could and should be spending my time. that doesn't conform to your view of the worldRead: "the sane world view"  Hey n2, Don't let them Hijack this thread or clipmarks, there are few better places to spend time and not nearly as worthy a goal as to squash this. I enjoy reading your clips and posts, don't let them discourage you. Its what they're good at. They will play the victim card, "Have you asked any gay people what they think?", a typical liberal approach. Who cares what they think! I'm not one of them. I care what I think. I'm not gonna go out and try my hardest to piss off some gay guy, but the thought isn't going to keep me up at night. (Just like the thought won't cross anyone's mind about not angering some 20-something white, middle-class, male, like me.) And to say, "drawing an equivale... They will play the victim card, "Have you asked any gay people what they think?", a typical liberal approach. Who cares what they think! I'm not one of them. I care what I think.Just to be clear, I made that remark in response to n2sooners' claim that Coulter hadn't insulted gay people. So apparently, if n2sooners thought it was worth making that claim, then he cares what they think. And unless they consider Edwards being one of them as an insult, she in no way insulted gays in any way other than using that word.He didn't seem to me to make that claim. He merely pointed out, correctly by the way, that she didn't call any homosexual (can I use that word? Or is that bad... my subscription to PC universe hasn't arrived.) that word. (I know I can't use the real one appearently. "Not without going to rehab") So what do they have to be mad about. So apparently, if n2sooners thought it was worth making that claim, then he cares what they think.I doubt he cares.... at least he shouldn't. In a long list of things to care about....... Look, let's just get this straight. Having a featured speaker at a popular event refer to a public figure as a faggot is insulting to gays, insulting to the person being referred to, and a disgrace to the organization. If you don't care, well, then good for you, Steve27Smith. Got something to prove, there, do you? She didn't call Edwards a faggot. Go read the quote. She no more called Edwards a faggot than Maher wished death on Cheney.  Nope, the only possible thing that could have been offensive was in the use of the word itself, in which case you are just as guilty (as am I). And since they aren't offended by the use of that word by many liberal bloggers, the only thing left is that they are offended by the use of that word by a conservative. And if that is what offended them, they aren't really offended, they are just playing partisan politics. And seeing as how I haven't heard them cry out about the liberal use of faggot, then I have to assume it is straight up politics. Well put N2! Of course it won't be seen that way and this discussion will not get us anywhere. I like the A#@ approach. refer to a public figure as a faggot is insulting to gaysgasp! I expect to see you at rehab ASAP!!! By the way, I am ready to pick another arbitrary word to say is insulting. The new (insulting) word: Shrub New Definition: Insulting slang term used to belittle any white male person. (Don't worry, each week a new ethnic / nationality group will get a new word) Now. Even if you use the "S" word to talk about a small plant, you are still insulting all white males..... See how picking arbitrary words to call insulting can be fun! Lets all try it.... just do... n2sooners: of course she called Edwards a faggot. If you say, "I can't talk about so-and-so, because I can't use the word 'faggot,'" you've just called them a faggot. Tell me you don't understand that. Well, then tell your friends that say Maher didn't wish death upon the VP that saying the world would be a better place without someone is the same as wishing them dead. Or do you only read meaning into what conservatives say and parse liberals word for word? Back on topic, let's say she did call Edwards a faggot. Is that a direct insult against gays? Are they insulted that someone would include Edwards in their ranks? Or are they simply upset with the use of the word? And if so, why are they not upset when liberals use the word? Come on now, you can say it. It is all politics. By the way, just for reference, here's the Maher quote. "I have zero doubt that if Dick Cheney was not in power, people wouldn't be dying needlessly tomorrow... I’m just saying if he did die, other people, more people would live. That’s a fact."Personally, I find this kind of comment distasteful, but it is part of a political discussion, making a political point. Calling someone a faggot does not. Nor does saying "Someone needs to put rat poison in [John Paul Stevens's] creme brulee." You may disagree. Maybe you're right. But since Bill Maher is the person people keep referring to when they defend Coulter by saying "the left does it too," I just thought it would be useful to... But let's drop the pretense that you actually give a damn about how gay people feel.I highly doubt you care either. Why? Anyhow, whatever your reasoning, you're wrong; I have several close family members who've felt the effects of anti-gay sentiment most of their lives, so this is something that matters to me quite a lot. I'm awaiting your indignant response to schreibe for his/her use of the word faggot. Although schreibe used it in jest, it has been shown here that using the word in jest is still worthy of scorn and outrage. So if you care (doubtful) please go here and be outraged. BitDrifter, you seem to think that the word has magical properties such that whenever it appears anywhere people ought to shriek in outrage, or else they have no principles and can be discredited. Coulter used the word in highly publicized forum as a way of demeaning and slurring a political opponent. schreibe used it as part of an anonymous back-and-forth exchange on a website. Coulter doesn't give a shit about gay rights; schreibe, based on his other remarks, obviously does. What part of the difference don't you understand? I just don't buy selective outrage. Those who are upset about Ann's use of faggot, but aren't upset when it is used by mainstream liberal blogs use it aren't really outraged over the use of the word, they are just using it for political attacks. And I feel the same way about those who will still support Gingrich for president even though they scorned Clinton for what he did. They are hypocrites. They adjust their feelings about two people doing the same thing based on political party. Sorry, but I just don't buy it. And I have yet to hear any outrage from the left about the Maher's 'that's so gay' comments. I have seen plenty of excuses for why, but I think they are BS. It is simply selective outrage based on politics. "Coulter used the word in highly publicized forum as a way of demeaning and slurring a political opponent." (Text editor not working) Actually, she did it more to point out the over-reaction that people have to what others say! The whole point was the line about having to go to rehab over saying "faggot"! THIS ACTUALLY HAPPENED!! That's the point. Ann's a smart girl, she knew what she was doing and all this selective outrage merely proves the point she was trying to make. Who's outraged? What idiot would waste their time getting outraged over a Coulter one-liner? Her whole raison d'être is to piss people off; if she's ever made a substantive remark (i.e. one whose impact didn't depend on its offensiveness) in her public career, I have yet to hear about it. The difference in my reactions to the different cases you note has more to do with what I think their real-world effects are likely to be than anything else. To spell it out: Impact of Boobatron, the anonymous Kos poster whose claim to fame consists of posting three paragraphs with the headline "Who invited the little faggot?" = probably about zero. Impact of Ann Coulter, who sells millions of ... Impact of Boobatron, the anonymous Kos poster whose claim to fame consists of posting three paragraphs with the headline "Who invited the little faggot?" = probably about zero.So how would you rank the comments of Maher who is a popular liberal who made similar comments on the air in front of millions of viewers? Not sure why I ask because I am sure you will play it down and apply your double standard, but I just have to do it anyway. Exactly what comments were these? You keep talking about what Bill Maher said, but can you quote something? Did he call someone a faggot on the air? Actually, let me ask you something, n2sooners. You too, Steve27smith. Do you actually understand why anyone would have a reason to be bothered by Coulter's comments -- entirely independent of what some other person has or hasn't said? From your comments up to this point, I sort of get the sense that you are lost with regard to the question of why this might offend people, given your insistence that you have to somehow take equal offense at everyone who has ever used the same word. I'm starting to think you just don't get the concept. Seriously, this is a real question. Do you understand why a gay person might get upset at Coulter, but not really care about Boobatron? I can understand perfectly why someone could be offended by the use of a word. What I don't understand is how someone can be genuinely offended by the use of a word based strictly on the political persuasion of the person using that word. Okay, so, just as a thought experiment, tell me why you think someone might be offended at Coulter. Just Coulter, for the time being. I think that might make it easier to explain why they might care what Coulter says, but not what Boobatron says. Did you see my other question? "Do you actually understand why anyone would have a reason to be bothered by Coulter's comments?" Sure, I understand why some people might get upset, but I think they are overreacting. "Do you understand why a gay person might get upset at Coulter, but not really care about Boobatron?" No. Either they care what is said or they don't. To care what she says but not someone else proves bias. (In my opinion.) "Tell me why you think someone might be offended at Coulter." Either a.) They truly don't like and are offended by the word. or, b.) Politically motivated and see an opportunity to attack a republican in order to force a defensive posture and to smear CPAC in an attempt to remove any g... First, who's ever heard of any of these people?[url=First, who's ever heard of any of these people?]The 50 most important people on the web.[/url] 23. Markos Moulitsas Zuniga Ahhh... the old "ad hominem tu quoque" version of the "two wrongs make a right" fallacy. Ann Coulter made a horribly offensive statement, insulting John Edwards and the gay community. But some liberal blogs have made arguably similar statements. Therefore, Ann Coulter's statement can be dismissed. Who are these people so easily bamboozled by this crap? Ahhh, the old straw man tactic. Since I can't refute what he says, I will say he said something else (even though he obviously hasn't) and then beat up the straw man I built up. In other words, show me one single place where I condoned what Coulter said. You see, you have this whole thing backwards. I don't condone what Coulter said, but the left does condone similar things said by those on the left (such as the ever popular Daily Kos) while condemning Ann for saying the same thing. I think they were both wrong, now show me any popular liberal sources who has condemned them both. Wait ... Did Kos himself call someone a faggot? "Straw man," indeed. Your search for a "popular liberal source" condemning two statements equally might not yield any fruit until a popular liberal commentator makes a comparable insult about a Republican presidential candidate in a national forum. You seem to claim bias toward the left, but you want equal time in the press condemning a popular right-wing commentator's statement at a national political conference attended by most of the republican presidential candidates about a leading democratic presidential candidate, and some obscure blog posts by random posters no more politically significant than you or I (no, Kos did not call anyone a faggot), that was not directed at anyone in pa... Ahh. I'd also been under the impression that what n2sooners wants to see "the left" condemning are a couple of anonymous posts on Kos... Actually, if you read Boobatron's posts, you'll see that he was pretty roundly condemned within hours of posting the "faggot" remark, in the comments to his own post. But ... whatever. The point of my earlier remark is that it seems that n2sooners and Steve27smith have this idea that "faggot" is a magic word, a random combination of sounds, that someone arbitrarily decided was off-limits just for the sake of political correctness. They don't seem to understand that context matters. Any gay person who's ever been threatened with physical harm... One has to be careful with that word, otherwise the bloody faggots will take offense and throw a screaming s**t fit as is their habit. Jesus, pkronfield, you really are an angry little fella, aren't you. |
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