Righthand, the photos are ghastly, and I am glad you are reminding so many of us what this tragic situation is all about on the bottom line. I am a Jew, and I support the existence of Israel living in peace with its neighbours. But I am totally against this illegal occupation, and the heinous and inhumane manner the Israeli government is treating the Palestinians. They act as if each and every Palestinian is a terrorist, when the fact is that most of them are just trying to live their lives and support their families. This grave injustice must come to and end, yet when I say these things to many of my Jewish friends I am called an anti-Semite. I publish an online magazine of Jewish cultu... zasel, can you share the link of your online magazine? zasel, you should take a trip to Israel and see for yourself instead of reading BS generated by pro-palestinian press. I think you'd find things quite a bit different. There have been palestinians on record asking Israelis to come back and restore some normalcy to Gaza. Do you have an explanation for that one? There's a good reason why Israeli's are most cautious when it comes to palestinians... remember it was them that invented the modern version of terrorism. If you take your guard down with the terrorists - you die. As simple as that. Have you seen many Jews jumping borders and blowing themselves up in mosques? Have you seen ANY? Have you seen a little palestinian girl, a 3-yr... No, you are not anti-Semite. Like me and many other Jews, you are anti-Zionist. This deliberate misnomer is a very important part of how good Jews get a bad name. I know that the problem is that Zionism has been high jacked by the right wing fascist parties. The fascism is manifested in the extraordinary one party line of Stalinism at its worst. Of course many of today's leaders are former Communists, so they know the drill well having been office holders in the old USSR. Other than the latest arrivals from where ever, who will only prosper is they replace the 'native' Palestinians in the 'food chair' of Israeli society, this zealot style Zionism is not representative of the ordinary Isr... Zasel, i do NOT want you to think of this as purely my ideology and compared to recordsage, this will not make sense but: to criticize you for maybe something you've expected but possibly not experienced, how could you possibly write anything on jewish life, you being openly homosexual? the two don't exactly go together. and you clearly do not speak for the majority of the small section of the world that calls themselves jewish, so why would you try and call yourself a voice for their "culture, lifestyle and politics"? what you should probably do is go visit israel and learn a little bit about their culture first hand. you know, i used to hear the word 'zionist' when i was younger and it had... how could you possibly write anything on jewish life, you being openly homosexual? --axelsenzonHoly Cow! Allow me to share my astonishment. What does being homosexual have to do with Jewish life or identity? Or any identity for that matter? I'm lost. both zasel and righthand are right, anti-semitism is to be against the arbian peninsula as a whole. and could any one please answer arifsali's question i am lost too I know that the problem is that Zionism has been high jacked by the right wing fascist parties. The fascism is manifested in the extraordinary one party line of Stalinism at its worst. Of course many of today's leaders are former Communists, so they know the drill well having been office holders in the old USSR.Do you actually believe this, my friend? Which of Israel's leaders is a former communist? Ehud Olmert was born in Palestine in 1945. Tzipi Livni, the Foreign Affairs minister, was born in Tel Aviv. Ehud Barak, MInister of Defence and former PM was born in Palestine in 1942. Shimon Peres, President and former PM, was born in Poland in 1923 and moved to Palestine when h... arifsali, firstly don't paraphrase what I wrote because I started that saying its not my ideology. The truth is, I couldn't care less about how people live their lives, personally. But, I a) do not think anyone should try and speak for a group of people unless he was appointed to do so, and even then it's not always simple. And b) it is against the Abrahamic faiths to be gay. Did you not know that? So, it is hard to call yourself a good Christian/Muslim (if they dont kill you)/Jew and break one of their fundamental principles let alone say you speak for these people. Thats all my criticism was, I'm not trying to be hate filled myself- I have no reason to be. But, he talking a lot of sh*t tha... Now, to go on a drop more. While I cannot say the same is true for cristianity or islam, one should actually not have a problem being homosexual in Judaism, if you learn and understand the talmud and gemara (kabala- books on spiritualty, gemara- books of law/litigation). Why that is, is not so simple. But I can explain if you want. For Morey for now, while I collect together my info.. Israeli Agent in United States Helped Moscow or Israeli Agent in United States Helped Moscow Israel's Declaration of Independence Written by Moscow's Agent Making use of Russia's natives to provide Kremlin's political interests is not an invention of the present Russian leadership. Six decades ago, the Soviet Union tried to subordinate world’s Jewish Diaspora to its influence. Those willing to help the Russians were placed in senior echelons of the Jewish lead[b]... righthand, you're completely wrong on the soviet-israel connection. The Russians were always friend with the arabs... and will continue to be so. There's no way you could be a friend to both. And b) it is against the Abrahamic faiths to be gay. Did you not know that? --axelsenzonDear axelsenzon, your premise is wrong here. The God of Abrahamic faith, the One who is above all else, cannot be against the homosexuals, in fact, this godhead is beyond being against or for anyone. So when you refer to Abrahamic faith, you should probably refer to Abrahamic religion, which is an organized aspect of human understanding of this godhead. Anyway, I don't intend to be off topic here, I'm sure righthand can answer the points you have raised with him, and I will also let a faithful homosexual counter your above point as well because I obviously cannot do justice. Arifasli, I dont understand. Do you read only half of what I say? Please try and read my posts again as I paint the "Abrahamic faiths" to cristianity/judaism/islamism like you may remember learning in a history or philosophy or socio-economic or religious or other classes; I'm assuming you've studied one of these and are therefore familiar with and understand where the classification comes from- i didn't event this term. Next, there is no Abrahamic religion, the truth is I wouldn't be callous and insulting to reward any/only one of the 3 above mentioned as the only Abrahamic religion. None of them would appreciate it. Further, i'm am not looking to discredit or insult anyone specifically, i... arifasli, i'm reading you post again and I'm truly not understanding something: "God of Abrahamic faith, the One who is above all else, cannot be against the homosexuals, in fact, this godhead is beyond being against or for anyone" have you read the bible/qu'ran/torah? what your saying is just not true. read that thing again and tell me he's not against things. Try specifically, leviticous, numbers, deuteronamy to name a few. Axelsenzon, I have some difficultly understanding what you write. It is difficult to reply when it's not clear what the poster intended to write. I'm sure that all fault for this lies with me? However... Zasel, i do NOT want you to think of this as purely my ideology and compared to recordsage, this will not make sense but: to criticize you for maybe something you've expected but possibly not experienced, how could you possibly write anything on jewish life, you being openly homosexual? the two don't exactly go together.What you wrote is clear even if your intent may not be reflected in the words. "Compared to RecordSage" This means what? You agree/disagree with him? [quot... what you should probably do is go visit israel and learn a little bit about their culture first hand.This is similar to saying to a child "stick your hand in the fire and see what happens." You have totally disrespected his homosexuality as a Jew and you advocate that he go to one of the most anti-gay societies to learn "their culture first hand." Unbelievable! Why would you advocate this? Have you been to Israel? Why? Are you prepared to disclose that you are Jewish. Why should you? Well, you are preaching to a very courageous man who discloses that he is both homosexual and a Jew. If you were a Jew you should know that for a large number of Jews, the state of Israel is... this is not at all like a child saying stick your hand a fire. for one, i am not a child. two, israel is not a fire in that a) not every one that goes to israel is preverbally 'burned', it is not a guarantee of death or injury like you are having me infer b) we are talking about a culture, do you understand what I am saying. You think you know what it is like there, but it is not as...you may suspect it is. Do you think you know what it is like in Tokyo because you see pictures of it and read about it, do you know what it was like to live in ancient Greece because your text books tell you what it was like. You'd be ignorant. The best you can do, w/o being there, is fathom the actual experien... I dont care enough about how other people live their lives. Please understand this. But, to your question, saying that a gay jew is brave for being a gay jew is like saying a man is brave for being a black cristian. Is there a choice in either of those combinations or situations? What you just said is anti-racism. Like I heard the other day a guy talking he said (in front of his black g/f none the less) "the Irish in that neighborhood over there are worse than the blacks" do you understand why she got offended? Your doing the same thing. And again, b/c you guys dont seem to take in what I say, I dont have a problem w/him. I have a problem w/"self-appointed' "speakers of the house" and if h... and righthand, " "The two don't exactly go together" In your opinion, are Jews exclude from being homosexual? Is this notion exclusive only to Jews? As all of life has homosexuality, this would make Jews abnormal, if true!" you wrote this right? are f-ing stupid? seriously, your becoming a waste of time. Please tell me your not either christian, jew, or muslim. because if you were raised as any of these three, you wouldn't say such an insulting statement. Do not assume my philosophical beliefs to be so simple as you would be able to get it by reading/listening to half or less of what I say. No, it is not Judaism exclusively, or my own opinion. But rather, a law given into all three of ... Axelsenzon, @ 8.44am today I wrote to you... I have some difficultly understanding what you write. It is difficult to reply when it's not clear what the poster intended to write. I'm sure that all fault for this lies with me?...and... In your opinion, are Jews exclude from being homosexual? Is this notion exclusive only to Jews? As all of life has homosexuality, this would make Jews abnormal, if true!you said ... What you just said is anti-racismI'm know you are wrong but also I'm sure you meant is racism, if you can understand! Well, I was being charitable. If english is your first language or you are not a child, as you claim, then Houston, w... This is CLIPMARXISM at it's finest! The whole concept of this clip is just utter p.c. bullshit! I refuse to engage in the blathering that follows! For Morey for now, while I collect together my info..I think the only rational response is 'huh'? Pollard was a fruitcake that tried to sell secrets to both israel and the Soviets. He represented no one but himself. As for the Soviets, they certainly tried to ingratiate themselves into the Middle East in an attempt to minimize British influence. They even supplied weapons (through the Czechs) to the Israelis in 1948, but quickly realized the Israelis couldn't be bought off, and turned to the Arabs. “Poalei Zion,” the Labor... yours... Pollard was a fruitcake that tried to sell secrets to both israel and the Soviets...my response... Daniel Ayalon, the ambassador of Israel, leaving his post in Washington told about this in an interview to the daily Ma’ariv. or there is ... * Pollard’s case caused the sharpest crisis in the American-Israeli relations and also a public discussion in the US concerning the "double loyalty" of the American Jews. Originally Israeli leadership completely kept a distance from Pollard’s espionage activity. The whole responsibility was assigned to representatives of the LEKEM, who allegedly operated under their own initiative, not informing higher instances (the bureau was disbanded in November 1985). You did note the 'double loyalty' problem that is not a problem for other American immigrants! This is the Tennet bit where Monica played such an important part with her semen stained dress. Starting from 1991, the heads of the governments of Israel, ministers and members of parliament without results have tried to achieve Pollard’s release. The most serious attempt in this connection was undertaken by the Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in 1998, within the framework of the regular round of the Israeli-Palestinian negotiations, under aegis of the US. I'm still not understanding your point. I've seen and read enough interviews with Pollard that I still consider him a fruitcake. That he was recruited by someone within Israel is not relevant. They used him because they found someone who could be used. Israel conceded this, and the PM took responsibility, as a responsible leader should. Every country spies on every other country, or tries, including on their friends. If you don't believe that you're a fool. But, don't get me wrong. As an American citizen caught spying on the US he deserves to rot away in prison, but what does any of this have to do with fascist Soviets running Israel as you have claimed? You did note the 'double loy... righthand, no, its ANTI-racism, to call someone brave for being a gay jew... that is not racist in itself. But if you read through what the hell ur saying, it's not correct in the majority of what homosexuals believe...that they were born that way. Do you get my analogy now, about calling a black man brave for being black. How about, "you can't blame the Irish for being drunks, its been going on for as long as they've been recording history. In fact they're a brave people for trying to function in todays society." Is there something wrong here? I'm sticking up for people born from Ireland. Its anti-racist, your statement isn't but the basis of your statement is. And an other thing. Is... So what you're saying is, Pollard=Jew and Monica=Jew, must mean a Jewish conspiracy against the US, right? Thank goodness dual loyalty isn't a problem for other immigrants such as, um, IRISH AMERICANS.I think this is a case of adding 2 and 2 together and getting 22! Yes, the 'dual loyalty' problem clearly has one common trend as you indicate. That is whether as citizens or American, France, Russia or where ever. Loyalty was transient. This was certainly not a problem for the Irish, Germans, Asians, Africans or who ever - other than your friends. The Irish were hardly off the boat before they were joining the US forces and dying before they were even citizens. Contrast that ... Of course the truth is that Pollard himself was not directly responsible for the deaths of all those CIA agents behind the Iron Curtain that he is blamed for. No, they were sold out by the Israeli authorities! But then you knew that, right? And you know why too. No wonder Pollard is hopping mad. He's blamed for something he didn't do. He forgets that without his initial treacherous action then Israel could not have sold out the CIA agents. This should reinforce his faith in a god of retribution! Kenneth Barr, the son of a Holocaust Survivor, also said... However, as a Jew, Levite and son of a Holocaust Survivor, let me say that if there is a political prisoner held anywhe... Perhaps it's the way you jump around, but I'm still not totally getting you. So you're NOT accusing Jews of dual loyalties, you're just accusing Israel of having sold out the US by providing secrets to the Soviets. Is that it? I suppose it's possible even if it makes little sense, and ignores the dozens of other cases of Americans selling secrets to the Soviets, especially those cases of dual allegiance, like ethnic Chinese providing secrets to China (which I'm sure you don't believe happened, since only Jews have this problem.) Ok, whatever. As for the rest, lost of factual errors (eg. Jewish Americans have tended to serve in the US forces at a higher than average per capita level until recently...in fact, 50% of the first graduating class of Westpoint was Jewish...but it is true, numbers seem have dropped of late. There are many reasons for this, having more to do with education and where American Jews live - East Coast, which is very under-represented in the US Forces; also, Jewish Americans were, according to every poll I've seen, AGAINST the war in Iraq, which shouldn't be a surprise considering most American Jews support the Democrats. In fact, there's lots of evidence Israel didn't want the US to attack Iraq... Anyway, I'm still not convinced you're anything more than an old-fashioned anti-Semite with access to the internet. Oh, I'm sure you don't HATE Jews; you just prefer them weak and powerless, like in the good, old days. We can't have Jews running around with guns and defending their rights or anything. oh, did I call you uninformed before? I take that back. I meant BADLY informed. You've hit many half-truths and created a conspiratorial web of mythic proportions. Well done. The rest of us will stick with whole facts, even if the conjectures are fun. Expand your horizons. As I've said, one or two articles on one or two websites doesn't make you 'informed' anymore than reading Readers Digest makes someone well-read. Rant on, old man. I have a lot more to contribute than to spend my time replying to your lengthy posts. The Pollard part started with your very loose... Pollard was a fruitcake that tried to sell secrets to both israel and the Soviets. He represented no one but himself....which took some time for me to establish was inaccurate, put mildly. Unlike another's posts, with yours there is intellect even if bias. You expand the subject with 'loose' statements like.... 50% of the first graduating class of Westpoint was Jewish...in what year or decade? You then write a paragraph with no facts. You accuse me of "lots of factual errors"without saying what factual errors and offering no ev... So, would you please try and be factual and concise. You might try to be less personal. Nothing you say that is truthful will effect me but other may not understand. If you wish to examine my personal motive, then just ask me. It would me more productive than you guessing my thoughts. I would expect that you would do the same! You might be correct that the ordinary American Jew didn't want the Iraq invasion. Unfortunately, their voice does not count! The voice only of the Israeli Lobby matters in America. The 'Party line' then and now about war with Iran is absolutely clear. The ass-kicking by Hizbollah has been forgotten already or the raw memory needs eliminating. Of course I understan... And I do want to save you from yourselves. This of course you will not get, but try. Think of when this camp guards were herding those unfortunate concentration camp persons to there daily choirs. And they went home each night to their families trying to put away their thoughts of what they were doing to fellow humans. Remembering the torture and broken bodies with the 11,000 detainees now in your formal concentration camps never mind the millions in the occupied territories. You are producing generations of inhuman young men and women. Remember the returning Vietnam vets. Think of how broken they were in their minds. If you have any humanity remaining they these few words should touch a c... @righthand, Based on your descriptions of 'concentration camps' - clearly you don't have your definitions straight, or you're losing your command of the language there or worse. As for representation, you certainly aren't representing anyone anymore than morey does. Nobody's trying to play the 'victimhood' card - the Israeli's can kick any arab country's butt, if they choose to. They have the weapons, the brainpower and the know-how/experience, which none of their enemies can match. The only problem they have, hopefully a temporary one, is one of leadership, unwilling (not unable, but unwilling) to fight wars the way they used to be fought. Not unlike our own problem here. The proble... And since you're so into photos... look at these and try not to be so blatantly ignorant. and again I say...And I do want to save you from yourselves. If you did not get it the first time then I'll spell it out in a more graphic example that might help with the more dense Zionists, who advocate the continued mistreatment and torture of the Palestinians with 11,000 detainees at the moment. CHILD SEX OFFENDERS. It is well known that many child sex offender were themselves victims of child sex offenders. Should I need to say more? Well for those few that believe that the way to go is ... the Israeli's can kick any arab country's butt, if they choose to. They have the weapons......there are probably no words that can perpetrate that density and yes there is some tr... .in what year or decade? You then write a paragraph with no facts. You accuse me of "lots of factual errors” without saying what factual errors and offering no evidence.True, but I have a life. And I thought you might look this one up, since you do have Internet access. There were two graduates in 1802; one was Jewish. Read about it here: http://www.jwv.org/communication/detailart.cfm?ID=306 As for low numbers, it's a recent phenomenon that, as I wrote before, has much to do with low interest in military careers from East Coast Americans (and most American Jews live in the East Coast.) In other words, it's not a religious issue. There is also anecdotal evidence that many J... As for your Lobby paranoia, AIPAC has had little influence on US foreign policy compared to Saudi Arabia and the Oil Lobby. http://www.harpers.org/archive/2007/04/jrm-pubnote-20070417 http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0119-05.htm And it is noteworthy that in the authorization of the use of force for the 1991 Gulf War, the majority of Jewish members of Congress voted against the war resolution, which is more than can be said for its non-Jewish members. In the more lopsided vote authorizing the use of force in October 2002, a majority of Jewish members ... And as most Jews support the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state, Zionism is an important aspect of normative Jewish affairs, even if a minority is anti-Zionist. Dissent within Judaism is not only acceptable; it’s encouraged. Jews don’t silence internal criticism like other groups. Please don't even try to talk to me about Holocaust victims. Did you lose family in the Holocaust? I'm betting the answer is no. Or Vietnam vets. I'm related to several. Are you? and again I say...And I do want to save you from yourselves.Oh, please spare us. The whole point of self-determination is to never have to hear that sort of condescending, paternalistic rubbish ever again. Please find another hobby. How about Darfur? If you're suggesting that Israel is breeding a new generation of terrorists by incarcerating Palestinians, you may be right. It's a terrible catch-22. it doesn't change the fact that most of those in Israeli Jails have blood on their hands. If some don't, and have been detained in defiance of the judicial process, that's a serious problem. But, it's a problem that gets swept under the rug because of Palestinian violence. Things changed substantially after the second intifada. After the first one, too. True, there was still a benign occupation, even if it often benefited the Arabs (with jobs and essential services) but they had a right to demand independence (and some form of return or compen... And just for the record, Hizbollah do butt kicking, oh unwise one.Hezbollah kicked ass? Israel may not have destroyed the group, and it was a mistake to claim that was the goal of the war, but Hezbollah cartainly gained nothing from the war. If anything, they’ve helped Israel prepare for the next war. And in the opinion of this Iranian commentator, they actually lost big time: [i]"[Hezbollah] has been destroyed. You know, Hizbullah was a major player in the Lebanese and Israel-Lebanon configurations in a certain context. That context has changed. As long as it controlled southern Lebanon, it could exert "proximity pressure" on Israel. That situation has changed; that status ... [i]"That Hizbullah tried to camouflage its defeat by provoking a political crisis in Lebanon is also an indication of its understanding that the situation has changed and of its trying to find a new place in this new situation. It may become stronger in the future - I don't know; I'm not a prophet. But look, the Israelis killed 637 Hizbullah warriors out of a full-time fighting force of about 2,000. Usually in war, you talk of "decimation" - an army's losing one-tenth of its manpower. In this case, Hizbullah lost about a quarter of its fighters. It also lost literally all of its missile launching pads in the south, many missiles and arsenals. In other words, it lost manpower, territory an[b]... oh, your major criticisms of Jonathan Pollard were refuted several years ago: from: The Truth About Jonathan Pollard by John Loftus, (Moment Magazine, June 2003) [i]But it was all untrue. Every bit of it. Pollard wasn’t the serial killer. The Jew didn’t do it. It was one of their own WASPs—Aldrich Ames, a drunken senior CIA official who sold the names of America’s agents to the Russians for cash. Pollard was framed for Ames’s crime, while Ames kept on drinking and spying for the Soviets for several more years. In fact, Israeli intelligence later suspected that Ames played a direct role in framing Pollard. But no one in America then knew the ... Loose...hardly. What both sides where looking for was a political victory and in that sense Israel lost. By expanding the war to Beirut, and by showing how weak the Lebanese army was, it made Hezbollah a legitimate national organization, one that is right now vying for power in Lebanon with a good chance at success. And while the losses may appear to be staggering (and remember these things are very hard to measure, just look at the reporting from Iraq, Afghanistan and even Vietnam), its Hezbollah elite light infantry, without the cost or attending weight of a modern mechanized army. So they have the ability to absorb that kind of damage (in the short term) and bounce back in the mid to long term. That means Hezbollah 1/IDF 0. I've already said... "I have a lot more to contribute than to spend my time replying to your lengthy posts."and I wrote... ..in what year or decade? You then write a paragraph with no facts. You accuse me of "lots of factual errors"without saying what factual errors and offering no evidence.It turns out the year was 1802 when one graduate was Jewish. ...but it is true, numbers seem have dropped of late....this in no way conveys the truth, even remotely. If you intent continuing to use linguistic gymnastics like this, then I ha... The right of the Jewish people to self-determination was as least as legitimate as that of the Arab residents of the region;You had more right to carve out a part of Europe than to return 2,000 years later to that part of the Middle East. When the UK was being so generous with other's land to get the bankers off its back after selling its soul in WW1, why did it not offer part of England? Or America give part of the US? Am I serious? I don't know. I would not have trusted the Brits not to offer 2 or 3 of our precious 32 Irish counties for a West Israel state! As it was they held on to 6. Remember we Irish never left Ireland and would not have waited 2,000 years to return to... well righthand, you keep making ridiculous comments like hezbollah did this and Israeli's didn't - clearly showing complete lack of... just about everything. You think those morons that hide behind women's skirts and hide their weapons in hospitals amount to something? Quit watching their promo movies, your gray matter (you have some somewhere, don't you?) will thank you. and then your cute comments about 'dense zionists'... just shows how dense you are. try to enroll into Jerusalem U... although I'm afraid even the wisdom of the Internet won't help you to qualify. Calling Jews dense is like changing your nick to 'brainless'... can be done, but not entirely accurate (or so I presume). or the Morey in our USS Liberty post that attempted to speak down to me as if I was some wet behind the ear kid, not knowing what I was talking about. I heard about this relay system that you use, but it's usually better hidden.Same one. And I've never used another identity on clipmarks, although it's a great idea. Thanks. And I still don't think you know what you're talking about. You've picked up a few ideas from some anti-Zionist websites and that's all. I want you to dig deeper. If you intent continuing to use linguistic gymnastics like this, then I have no intention continuing our discourse.Oh, it was a joke. I thought it was pretty funny when som... For the record, lower military enrollment is a concern of the Jewish community. This is an interesting editorial. Attention: Where are the Jews in the U.S. military? http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/module/displaystory/story_id/17121/edition_id/337/format/html/displaystory.html You had more right to carve out a part of Europe than to return 2,000 years later to that part of the Middle East.On what grounds? Are Jews really Europeans? My family lived for a few hundred years in what is now the Ukraine. Does that make me Ukrainian? Ask yourself this question - and be honest - is an Irish Jew 'Irish'? Your misperception is that all the Jews were forced into the Diaspora by the Romans after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem in the year 70 C.E. and then, 1,800 years later, suddenly returned to Palestine demanding their country back. In reality, the Jewish people have maintained ties to their historic homeland for more than 3,700 y... If these numbers seem low, consider the effects of centuries of persecution under the Turks (which also decimated Palestine's Christian population). Non-Muslims under Islamic rule were known as Dhimmis; Dhimmitude is the status that Islamic law, the Sharia, mandates for non-Muslims, primarily Jews and Christians. Dhimmis, 'protected' people were free to practice their religion in a Sharia regime, but were made subject to a number of humiliating regulations designed to enforce the Qur'an's command that they "feel themselves subdued" (Sura 9:29) and motivate Dhimmis to convert. This denial of equality of rights and dignity remains part of the Sharia, as a form of institutionalized racism. [ur... In a letter written nearly 1,000 years after the Roman expulsion, Rabbi Chisdai ibn Shaprut (c. 915 - c. 990) of Andalusia described himself as: "Chisdai, the son of Yitzchak, the son of Ezra, from the descendants of the exiled of Jerusalem who now live in Spain...we have been waiting many years, while we have been transferred from one captivity to another, and from exile to another. How strong is the hope and anticipation - one cannot contain oneself over this! How can I remain silent over the destruction of our glorious Temple and over the remnant of those who have excaped the sword and have been through fire and water? We have been left with only a small remnant of the many, and we... There were other Jewish leaders who called for the return of the Jews to Palestine for decades before Theodor Herzl (1860 1904) wrote his influential pamphlet, 'The Jewish State.' But Herzl's work pushed the formation of a political movement to establish a Jewish homeland in Palestine. "We are a people - one people." "We have honestly endeavored everywhere to merge ourselves in the social life of surrounding communities and to preserve the faith of our fathers. We are not permitted to do so. In vain are we loyal patriots, our loyalty in some places running to extremes; in vain do we make the same sacrifices of life and property as our fellowcitizens; in vain do we strive to increase the... What percentage of the world's Jews reside in Israel? If it was as you portray then Israel would be over flowing. You would not need to scour Africa seeking out invitee today, citizen tomorrow 'Jews' after having exhausted the USSR. What's keeping them from their 'natural homeland''?Actually, around 40% of world Jewry now resides in Israel. Another 40% live in the US and the rest are still scattered. In a sense, the American experience, despite the numbers, is an anomoly. Many say America was both the best and worst thing to happen to Judaism. With moer freedoms and opportunities came assimilation. The US is largely secular and Reform. But, the Jewish experience outside the ... speak to people who were there (I've been lucky enough to interview a British Naval officer who served in the Mediterranean 1947-1948, and a woman who assembled guns for the Irgun while incarcerated in Cyprus...the first-hand accounts are vital); and, seek out documents that illuminate the political machinations behind the scenes. We're now fortunate to be able to read declassified CIA documents: http://www.foia.cia.gov/ State department docs: http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/johnsonlb/xix/28059.htm and even old books online free. This one is great! http://www.archive.org/details/mymissioninisrae002443mbp You will need more than 2 sources to persuade me that AIPAC has less influence than the Saudi lobby.Joe Murray and Israel By Joseph Puder FrontPageMagazine.com | April 12, 2007 "Let’s be frank: in her 59 years as an independent state Israel has never asked that a single American soldier fight for or die for it. Nor have American troops ever been dispatched to the battlefield to defend Israel. Conversely, American troops have been dispatched to Arab-Muslim states (on more than one occasion) and, have died for them in the battlefield. Surely Murray remembers Kuwait 1990/1991 when American troops were sent to Saudi Arabia and, some were killed in the process of liberati... In any event, [former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia, Robert] Jordan in 2003 joined the long list of U.S. ambassadors and other former American officials working directly or indirectly for the Saudi royal family...Actually, it would be big news if a senior U.S. diplomat in the Middle East did not accept the warm embrace of the Saudis or other despots upon leaving the region. They are sprinkled all over Washington, particularly in such well-known Saudi-supported think tanks as the Middle East Institute. A former American ambassador to Saudi Arabia leads the institute -- Wyche Fowler Jr., chairman. Edward Walker, president, was ambassador to Israel, Egypt and the United Arab Emirates... Saudi PR/Lobby Firms Dodging Congressional Subpoenas http://www.prwatch.org/node/1604 `Wahhabi Lobby' takes the offensive: radical Islamists take a page from the KGB's playbook and try to shape U.S. policy by politically manipulating policymakers with a well-funded influence campaign. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_28_18/ai_90307295/pg_1 US and oil lobby oust climate change scientist http://www.guardian.co.uk/bush/story/0,7369,687650,00.html "[u]At the outset, the Arab states had... You have been honest about some of the ills of the 'democratic' Israel, so what would you trade for peace with the Arabs? The borders of 1948, 1967, when, any, while retaining your nuclear arsenal to ensure against an Arab first strike attack that Israel is know for.always try to be honest. This is an excellent question. What can Israel offer when no offer save self-destruction is good enough? You speak of the borders of 1948 and 1967. At both times there could have been a Palestinian state, much larger than anything that could now be negotiated. It's obvious that the continuing conflict has not been waged for the welfare of the Palestinian Arabs. It has been to undermine I... So, you ask, what can be offered? Before we reach that point, both sides must consider historical and religious imperatives. My view is that the Arab world, especially the Palestinians, must grow up and be realistic. They have very legitimate grievances but continue to squander every opportunity by demanding the impossible, and refusing to accept a single compromise. I believe in a negotiated peace, but this is only possible when both sides are willing to make concessions. Jewish moderates recognize the Palestinian-Israeli conflict as a struggle between two legitimate national narratives. Yet, it's clear after so many years of conflict, the Arab world has made virtually no effort to u... And the Jewish world, within and without Israel, must go further in understanding the Arab worlds societal, ethnocultural and religious needs. Israel has concentrated on negotiating over borders and land claims but has failed to appreciate the consequences of Arab humiliation, and Islamic ignominy, from repeated drubbings at the hands of Jews (a perceived inferior). Satisfying Arab (and Muslim) justice would, in my opinion, go a lot further to alleviate a prevelant sense of discomfiture than nitpicking over numbers of refugees and the difference between an "Armistice line" and a "border." Personally, I would like to see the Israeli government come clean on massacres at the hand of both the... they simply prolong the conflict. The struggle between Jews and Arabs is over intangibles and mutual perceptions, not over a precise point on the map. It will not end until we face and defeat our personal demons, accept that compromise is an act of faith and not a sign of weakness, and admit once and for all, the children of Abraham are family, fellow indigenous sons of the same land, which belongs to neither of us but to G-d. Since you asked. This is the end of the quote that begins: "At the outset, the Arab states had little need for their own instrument because they were championed by the American petro-diplomatic complex.......One could rationalize the project—within limits. The CIA might have established AFME student counseling offices in Arab capitals as covers for intelligence operations. However, in Washington, AFME was using CIA funds to wage propaganda offensive against Israel, and we were resentful. While we were struggling to raise a modest $50,000 to $100,000 a year to finance our lobby, U.S. subsidies to AFME reached a peak of $400,000 a year. (Israel's Defense Line by SI Kenen, pg. 115) Waiting for the smell of the verbal diarrhoea to fade. Great response. And it proves my point: you're either disinterested in, or incapable of, serious discussion. Complex problems don't have simple answers, even if you think it can all be boiled down to "Israel BAD." What's more disappointing is that you, being Irish, should understand better than most, that conflicts that may appear clear and straightforward are usually convoluted and even enigmatic. Were the 'troubles' simply a religious competition? Did family rivalry play a role? Were there political considerations? All of the above? None of the above? My issue with you, my friend - you're only three years older than me so I suppose technically I can't call you 'old man' - from the begi... Waiting for the smell of the verbal diarrhoea to fade. Only heard. I brought a shovel.  Now just hit yourself (or the other guy) with it and then add the photo to the clip. Just make sure to hit hard enough. Maybe you should use your razor sharp wit to cut your own throat and do us all a favour. And seeing as your wit is so dull, it might take you a while. But, don't worry I will finish you off with the shovel and bury you. What are friends for ? And what would we do then for fun??? If we did not have the dull then we would not know what FUN is! Is that original? Question is not for RecordSage, he's still on 'dull'. Wit and fun are alien concepts for certain of wing to the right types! Oh, and religious Retributionist types, but they are often the same creature. And people thought match.com is the only place for couples to meet... apparently Clipmarks does well in that area as well. I'm glad you found each other.. or whatever is said in these kinds of circumstances. My issue with you, my friend - you're only three years older than me so I suppose technically I can't call you 'old man' - from the beginning is that you're not interested in adding anything positive to the debate,Morey, early on you preached to me like a schoolmaster lecturing a wayward pupil, I was to accept all you stated as fact! Later you referred to me as 'old man'. Now you 'know' "you're only three years older than me". Next you'll know my DOB or conclude that I'm female, or Arab or even a Jew! All or any of these may be true. If you fire off enough shotgun blasts then you must hit something. But it would not matter. All that matters is that the w... And people thought match.com is the only place for couples to meet... apparently Clipmarks does well in that area as well. I'm glad you found each other.. or whatever is said in these kinds of circumstances.Good on ye, RecordSage. I'm not saying that I understand all of this with I think it indicates that you have wit. Wit will always be respected by the Irish. If you've wit then you'll never take yourself too seriously. The 'my way' or 'not an inch' or 'retributionist' brigade are distinguished also by their lack of wit. Obviously you understood enough... Unlike yourself. I would say. Top of the Morning to you. You would? Why? It's pitch black behind my window...  Open the blinds. I have none in my office window. Reading this thread leaves me feeling like I ate bad acid and read the editorial section. Ouch. |
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