 papananook says: McCain's war hero image is fair game and needs to be challenged as well, especially since the Senator beats his chest as the self-appointed arbiter of national military honor and homeland security. The history has been well documented that John McCain received special treatment when he was prisoner of war in Hanoi, in exchange for making over 30 propaganda commercials for the North Vietnamese. In fact, fellow POW's have testified that McCain was considered the best candidate for these films by the North Vietnamese, because he was willing to do anything to avoid torture. They note that the communists even called him "THE SONGBIRD". Ted Sampley, founder of 'Swiftboat Veterans for Truth' and now one of the founders of 'Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain', has stated on their website that even after McCain came home from his captivity he went so far as to deny that MIA's might even still be in Vietnam alive. McCain had the audacity to criticize and ignore the very same people who When a person puts himself at risk for the sake of others, and suffers a huge cost because of it, we owe him a debt of gratitude. If a person takes a risk for my benefit, and suffers as a consequence, then I owe him some form of compensation for what he lost. It could be selfish and cruel of me to simply say, "Thank you," and to walk off. So, we do owe McCain a greater debt of gratitude than we owe to the fighter pilot who did not get shot down and tortured. However, this is not the type of debt that gives McCain any claim to the keys to the White House. It gives him a claim that we make his life more comfortable – a decent set of veterans' benefits that properly convey to these people that... I disagree--we owe him NOTHING. As a conscientious objector and Vietnam war refusenik, I have a particular admiration for the B-52 pilot who took his whole group home on Christmas day, '72, rather than bomb civilian targets in N. Vietnam. Him, I owe something, because he sacrificed his career for a moral awakening and resignation. McCain was a murderer and traitor and I owe him nothing but contempt. By the time President Nixon ordered the resumption of bombing over Hanoi and Haiphong on Dec. 18, B-52 Pilot Michael Heck, 30, had racked up more than 150 bombing missions during a number of stints in Indochina, a Distinguished Flying Cross, the Air Medal with eleven oakleaf clusters—and an impressive list of reservations about the Viet Nam War. With each new bombing run over the populated cities of the North, those doubts grew. Finally, on the day after Christmas, Heck announced to his wing commander that he could no longer in good conscience participate in the intensified bombing campaign. According to the Pentagon's records, four other American pilots have refused to go on combat flights... Whether or not he was a hero does not mean he's more or less capable of being president. If people think he's a hero, fine. But we don't owe him the White House. I do, however, believe we owe people who voluntarily put themselves in harms way. How well they avoid harm is irrelevant. If harm comes looking for you, you are not a hero. Depending on the outcome, you are a victim or survivor. McCain put himself in harms way therefore he's a hero in my eyes. Coming back from prison camp makes him a survivor. To call McCain a murderer is way over the top and disrespectful to all soldiers. Are we "swiftboating" McCain now? Trusts me, I'm not voting for him, but all of this reads a little too familiar. I'm not swift-boating the bomber pilot...he napalmed villages in an immoral and illegal war that I refused to fight in, then cooperated with the N. Vietnamese when captured. Not such an honorable man from the get go in my eyes.--fuck him and his jet plane. And you're right--I have no respect for the guy. None. I'm curious, papananook. As a "conscientious objector" do you think all soldiers that go to war are immoral and murderers? I would then understand your feelings toward McCain (not that I'd agree). I'm also curious if the roles were reversed. Say the ages of Obama and McCain were switched and it was Obama who fought in the Vietnam war and McCain too young. Would you have the same feelings for Obama that you currently have for McCain? It's too bad that in this important time of deciding who will lead this country over the next 4 to 8 years, we (as in republicans and democrats) are arguing over who is a hero and who is not. Being a hero (or not) has nothing to do with being a president. Pl... It's not for me to judge about "all soldiers"...but I will tell you that every man I ever knew and got to be friends with who went to Vietnam, regretted the hell out of it. To a man they told me they were glad I didn't go and to a man, I told them I'm glad they made it back. Not one ever expressed any anger at me for being a CO and I never spit on anyone (urban myth, that) and I never cussed at soldiers who went or came back wounded in body or mind. But when someone (mcCain) brags about their service in a war--they can go fuck themselves. They learned nothing and it's all false. Nobody wins a war. Except the disaster capitalist profiteers. So I can assume that if the roles were reversed, you'd have the same feelings about Obama? If you mean that Obama went to war and bombed villages...well YES I would feel the same---what a silly question....It's not about who did the murder, it's the act I condemn, then the man and his God have to live with it, not me...altho it leaves little room for respect if the murderer learned nothing... and It's NOT "conscientious objector" in quotes as if it didn't happen or isn't real---in '71, I refused service in the military, was convicted and got probation to work in a mental hospital with deaf-blind kids. It took courage of a sorts, standing up to the Gummint and my Army/Marine Father but I was lucky, alos in that i wasn't imprisoned or killed like a lot of my friends. Later, pardone... Thanks for answering. I was just trying to figure out where you were coming from. I can't say I agree with you 100%, but I get it now. I was just making sure is wasn't blind hatred for McCain for political reasons. Naw, I've been strenuously anti-military since 1968 when I started learning about the true history of the USA, treaties broken and lies told. The USA is no world hero like it purports to be either. "We" export most of the munitions and arms for wars across the world and a few get rich at the expense of others. Not that US corporations are alone... |
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