 thisnamecantbetaken says: Before the Iraq War, I didn't actually know there was any difference. I just naively thought all Muslims were the same. But of course, they have variations between them, even though they do believe in the same god, Allah. Just as the Catholics, Protestants, Jews and so on, believe in their same god, God. Before the Iraq War, I didn't actually know there was anythere wasn't really alot of difference, ppl from iraq tell me they were the same, but only for war purposes such differences were emphasized, to make it easier to break through the community and civil wars start in the country. War is dirty. There are differences, glad you took time in learning. Insurmountable differences? Almost, because the differences starts right with the succession of Prophet Muhammad. This research by Wilfred Madelung is the latest and the best on this very significant topic. I have a lot of confusion regarding the fighting in Iraq as seen by me from the outside. To me, I see four sides fighting; the coalition, the Sunnis, the Shi'ites and the insurgents. I can't seem to figure out what the goals of each are of the fractions are. I don't think I have quite understood why the Iraqis fight each other, as well as fighing the occupiers. Is it a question of those who supported the Sunni dictator Saddam versus those who didn't? Are the insurgents on the Sunni side only or are they on the side of all of Iraq? Are the Sunnis supporters of the Ba'ath party rule or is that the insurgents? Or perhaps none of them? Are the insurgents against the coalition only? What exactly ... I would also like to ask, if the differences between the Shi'ites and the Sunnis didn't matter that much before the war, why do they matter now? @arif, "Almost"... Does what you share outweight what differentiates you? Is divide or differentiate more appropriate? thisname--I think nothing matters unless it gets a focus and attention of either an individual or society, in this case, the 9//11, the American wars have caused the attention to shift. ghiberti--I do not favor homogeneous or monolithic Islamic society, or any society for that matter, I think it degrades the human dignity, imagination and culture as a whole. Some people take Shia/Sunni as a divide, I just think there is nothing wrong with the differences as long as people accept and appreciate the pluralism. In terms of the way this historical sequence of events is taught to young muslims, what attitude is encouraged toward the other (i.e Sunni to Shia and vice-versa)? What emphasis is placed on the differences in tradition? I'm R.C. and clearly remember teachers (particularly in Religious Education lessons) highlighting what they felt was a better school system (compared to Protestant schools). I'm no expert, but my impression is that loyalties in Iraq have a lot to do with tribal and family relationships and that religion is mostly secondary. To me, it sounds somewhat similar to Northern Ireland before 1998. Catholics and Protestants were attacking one another, but the primary motivations had to do with vendettas, revenge, and territory, and specific religious beliefs were less important. I also think that we in the US get a drastically simplified picture of who's who in Iraq. For example, there are Sunni Kurds and Shiite Kurds (as well as, I think, Christian Kurds). Religious differences in Iraq have definitely been exacerbated since the war began in 2003 because the US presence ... You are right enbar when you say that we're only given a drastically simplified and IMO extremely superficial overview of who's who in the Iraq War. Now this next bit below is just guessing and an effort to untangle everything, but would it then be somewhat correct to say that:-> ->The present gov in Iraq is Shia, the religious minority and supported by the US & the rest of the coalition. (But doesn't Iran support the Shia too? Confused again...oh well, let's not mix Iran up in this right now or I'll totally lose the plot, I reckon) Next guess/theory: ->The Sunni majority don't like this and want governmental control back, because they used to have the power and maybe extra benefits... Well, I think that's basically right, except that in terms of numbers the Shia are the majority in Iraq and the Sunni are the minority. Also, "insurgents," it seems to me, doesn't really mean anything -- basically, in the Western media, anyone who points a gun at a coalition soldier gets labelled an "insurgent," whether they are Sunni, Shia, foreign, Iraqi, or whatever. I recently read an article saying that since the country has disintegrated into civil war, the coalition is fighting pretty much everybody, depending on the day, in the sense that it is trying to maintain order. It is a serious mess. Yes, I agree, the word insurgents doesn't really mean anything tangible to me either, but is only a vague description of "someone" against "us" in the fight, who we just can't pin any other sort of label on. It sounds to me just as vague as the term "unlawful enemy combatant". Both don't really identify who we're talking about, only that they are supposed to be the enemy. Hmm...Well, thank you very, very much for your help enbar and for your viewpoints. I greatly appreciate it. The whole Iraq War has been a total mess IMO in more than one regard and now at least I think I have the players on the battlefield sorted out...some what....sort of...maybe. Oh, you know what I mean....chuckle chuckle. Thanks for the dialog! .  And we are supposed to care because? [polite way of saying "who gives a flyin' sh_it!] some people like to know what's happening outside of their own backyard "To know someone with whom you can feel there is understanding in spite of distances or thoughts unexpressed ... that can make this life a garden." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe OK, here it is. Another conflict brought to you by religion: "The Sunni branch believes that the first four caliphs--Mohammed's successors--rightfully took his place as the leaders of Muslims. They recognize the heirs of the four caliphs as legitimate religious leaders. These heirs ruled continuously in the Arab world until the break-up of the Ottoman Empire following the end of the First World War. Shiites, in contrast, believe that only the heirs of the fourth caliph, Ali, are the legitimate successors of Mohammed. In 931 the Twelfth Imam disappeared. This was a seminal event in the history of Shiite Muslims. According to R. Scott Appleby, a professor of history at the University of Not... I just like the way thisnamecantbetaken put it: Just as the Catholics, Protestants, Jews and so on, believe in their same god, God. I actually thought about that too, while I was writing it. I wondered if I should write Jehovah or Jahve or Jesus' Dad or something, but that would probably have riled things up I reckon...chuckle chuckle ...so God was sort of the most neutral non-denominative name I could thing of. I just like the idea that there is "God" and then there are the other gods. Like two guys talking and one says "she came by today..." Certainly "she" could refer to billions of women couldn't it? Except in China. Anyway, "she" is special because it is common knowledge who she is. And God is God. Regardless of the others. I understand. .  What's interesting about this is that in Arabic, "Allah" simply means God in the same way that "Dieu" means God in French or "Dios" means God in Spanish. In other words, Arabic-speaking Christians also pray to "Allah" when they address their prayers in Arabic to "God." Yes, you're right. Anyway, what's in a name? I think everyone more or less prays to the same God anyway....if they pray at all, that is. |
View the Top Clips from December 30, 2006
|
||||||||||
|
|
|||||||||||
|
New from the makers of Clipmarks: Amplify.com - Don't just share the news...Amplify it!
|
|||||||||||
