 papananook says: What to do, what to do? That's the question for the average citizen. Do we just inore this brilliant man or get leaders who will listen and act? During a speech at the National Press Club, he rambled, as if his ideas were sprinting well ahead of his words, but he kept an overflow ballroom audience rapt. Already, he said, the world’s safe level of atmospheric carbon dioxide has been exceeded. Yet, in the 20 years since he first testified, no major U.S. law restricting greenhouse gas emissions has been passed, 21 new coal-fired generating units have been built at power plants in this country and total U.S. emissions of carbon dioxide have climbed by about 18 per cent. He also accused corporate America of a “greenwash” in which their environmentally friendly words are not backed by actions and he supported criminal charges against CEOs of corporations such as ExxonMobil who are smart enough to know the situation but are intent on continuing their fossil fuel ways. “When their d We've actually passed the supposed "tipping point" about 15 times in the past 2 years. It's all in mother earth's hands now. Another ex NASA planetologist, James Lovelock, seems to think we've passed the tipping point. Actually, I think Willy's comment about Mother Earth may in fact be the key to this issue, but a little help from us wouldn't hurt. Another ex NASA planetologist, James Lovelock, seems to think we've passed the tipping point.Lovelock has a great track record. He also said in the 1970s that mankind would be on the verge of extinction wihtin 15 years because of the "population bomb". He was also the catalyst behind banning DDT in Africa, which has cost millions of lives. Lovelock is a loon that should be tried in a court of law for his alarmism that has cost millions of lives. Anyone interested in reading a little truth about Lovelock might start looking here, http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/16956300/the_prophet_of_climate_change_james_lovelock/print vk2yoc, did you know Mars, Jupiter, Neptune, Saturn, Pluto, and Neptune's moon, Triton, have all been determined to be in warming trends similar to Earth's. Can you tell me any planets or moons in the Solar System that buck this trend and are presently cooling? Yes I did know that, at least about Mars and Venus (which you forgot to mention), it worries me a little, but I'll wait for more info before I draw any conclusions. As for cooling, quite a lot of people think the Earth is cooling. quite a lot of people think the Earth is cooling.Well, it is cooling over the past 15 years, but over the past century it has warmed by about 0.4 to 0.7 degrees. In fact, the planet has been warming since the period in the 17th century known as the little ice age. However, The fact that cooling is occurring on other planet shows that the trend could be reversing soon on Earth. The Earth absorbs and stores heat that is irradiated from the Sun . Since the Earth has a thick atmosphere and green house effect, the effects of the Sun do not happen as quickly. But the evidence certainly suggests the planet is cooling and many scientists think that we are about to enter a more d... Willy, all planets have whats called "Albedo," it's a measure of how much energy is reflected back into space, in the case of our Earth, if it reflects too much, then the Earth is too cold (for life to exist), if it reflects too little, then its too hot. Our planets albedo is determined by how much is light colored and how much is dark, snow and ice reflect, soil and rock absorb. Over millions of years, there has been enough of each, in balance, to keep the overall temperature suitable to sustain life. How does this happen? see Lovelock's "Gaia Hypothesis." If the Sun gets hotter, as it has been, then we need to either have more ice and snow, or reduce the greenhouse effect that you mentione... I spoke to Earth recently and it commented that it is looking forward to a period without humans so that it can repair itself and prepare for the next creatures with supposed intelligence to evolve. What's the worst thing that can happen? See what this guy has to say, I personally think he has a great perspective on the subject. This is his simplified version, he has more videos that go into greater depth on climate change. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zORv8wwiadQ Just watched the video, it makes sense, as far as it goes. But the cost of oil and the war on terror, and other factors could make it irrelevant, getting Global consensus for action won't be easy. This is where our present forum can play a part. One can hope but I fear that people are too willfully ignorant and it will be hard to et them to stop believing the lies-- and stonewalling of info in the Bushie Admin didn't help. Let me present a more terrifying scenario. Most would agree that the World is overpopulated now, or soon will be, and this may lead to severe shortages of food, water, and resources. A lot of people think that there will be wars fought over dwindling supplies of natural resources. Governments may prepare for such wars, and act to secure such resources, but never ending wars may not be attractive to those in power, the might not, themselves survive, either from enemy action, or local insurrection. A Government or consortium of Governments and Global Corporations, perhaps along with the very rich, may feel that the easiest option, is to, 'Let Global Warming Happen!" They would survive,... Since the rich and powerful always feel more self-important and privileged, why not?...why should they care about the "rabble" as long as they survive with their old and their egos intact. But it won't work if the Earth cleanses itself...civilization will change so radically that all the riches in the world won't save them. Besides, they're so spoiled they wouldn't know how to survive a coupla days without their car. Or a maid. What do you think we are doing? and what will be the consequence!There is no consequence to global climate from human activity. We are so minute in the scheme of things. The largest greenhouse gas is ocean condensation, which is about 3/4 of all greenhouse gases. 98% of CO2 in the atmosphere occurs naturally from volcanoes, plate tectonics and other means. Then, there are the hundreds upon hundred of feedback loops too numerous to measure and predict, like carbon sinks, cloud systems, ocean currents, water cycles, etc.. We are also emerging from the Earths peak obliquity which also contributes to a warming Earth, because the more the Earth is tilted toward the Sun - the greater amount is the Sun's energy per given area. Our mid-life sequence star is warming and will continue to do so until it reaches its maximum. Say about 1 billion more years. The human species developed on an earth in a certain period of the Sun's current sequence. As it ages past our inhabitable zone the Sun will get hotter and thus, so will the earth. When the Sun warms past our environmental tolerance we will die off and a heartier lifeform will develop. Then in a few billion years it will cool and Earth will be on a declining temperature path. Those heartier high temperature creatures will dies off in favor of more lower temperature creatures. The point is, we are on a hill approaching the apex. we won't see the apex or the otherside... If all the oceans of the planet we to fall on you at once could your umbrella keep you dry? Skwirl, your comment reminds me of George Carlin's routine about global warming. Given his recent passing, a good moment to reflect on Carlin might be to hunt down his video on YouTube about global warming. It is quite funny and poignant For a star like the Sun the main-sequence stage lasts about 10,000,000,000 years, whereas a star 10 times as massive will be 1,000 to 10,000 times as bright but will only last about 20,000,000 years. A star one tenth of the Sun's mass may only be 1/1,000th to 1/10,000th of its brightness, but will last about 1,000,000,000,000 years. 13.7 billion years - Formation of hydrogen and helium in Big Bang 4.9 billion years - Oldest meteorite forms 4.58 billion years - Most consistent age for formation of sun 4.54 billion years - Age of Earth 4.4 billion years - Sun begins life only 70% current brightness 3.5 billion years - Earth day is 15 hours long 3.0 billion years - Oldest record of Earth's magnetic field 3.0 billion years - Sun grows in brightness to 80% of current level. 2.0 billion years - Solar luminosity is now 85% of current level. 900 million years - Length of day is now 18 hours long. 750 million years - Large ice packs cover earth nearly to equator 543 million years - Cambrian Explosion of complex organisms. 500 million years - Solar luminosity only 6% less than today. 320 million years - First ancestors to mammals appear 300 million years - Solar luminosity only 3% less than today. 250 million years - Permian Mass extinction 100 million years -Earth's magnetic field 3x stronger than today 65 million years - Cretaceous Dinosaur Extinction 60 million years - Primitive primates appear 55 million years - Major global warming episode 27 million years - Primitive apes emerge 6 million years - Great Apes and Hominids 'split' genetically 2 million years - Tool-making humanoid ancestors emerge 750,000 years - End of last magnetic reversal 500,000 years - First evidence of fire usage 400,000 years - First use of paint by human ancestors 150,000 years - Neanderthal's appear 130,000 years - Beginning of Eemian Interglacial age 100,000 years - Modern humans appear 50,000 years - Major change in human behavior, art, tools 45,000 years - Largest animals disappear from human habitats 28,000 years - Neanderthal's disappear 25,000 years - Elaborate burial customs appear 20,000 years - Start of last Ice Age 17,000 years - Oldest star ... 8,000 BC - Oldest city, Jericho, has 2000 inhabitants 7,000 BC - Fired pottery invented 5,600 BC - The Black Sea Flood 4,236 BC - Egyptian Calendar begins. 3,700 BC - Megalithic stone graves appear in Denmark. 3,500 BC - First Sumerian writing appears. 3,400 BC - Invention of the wheel. 3,100 BC - First work on Stonehenge begins 2,700 BC - First pyramids built in Egypt. 2,500 BC - Development of Chinese characters 2,357 BC - Chinese record mention the Pleiades star cluster. 2,134 BC - Chinese astrologers failed to predict a solar eclipse 2,000 BC - Chinese report aurora sightings 1,600 BC - Sun disk and star map created in Germany 1,375 BC - First solar eclipse recorded in Babylon. 1,111 BC ... For a star like the Sun the main-sequence stage lasts about 10,000,000,000 years 4.4 billion years - Sun begins life only 70% current brightnessThe way I see this we still have about a half a BILLION years until the sun goes stable then starts to decline. That's 500,000,000 years! Its going to get hotter for a long time to come. OK, Willie, let's say you're right and it doesn't matter what poeple do as far as global warming...BUT what's wrong with cleaning up our act, anyway, since destroying the rain forests and the oceans with our rapacity and greed are just damn wrong? How about it? Could we agree that a clean, healthy planet and less greedy populace would be a great thing for our grandkids? I ask in all sincerity. The condition of the planet is a result of first world technologies being developed. Are third world nations expected to stagnate? It worked for us but you can't do it because it will destroy the planet. Ha,ha, we got there first. Maybe we could find some sanity in balance! Gee, what a thought. Less greed by the developed (consumer capitalist) countries and set an example of sustainable economies and energy use. Wow what concept....Cpould we do it ? Yes. Will we change enouh...NO, I DOUBT IT! People are too brainwashed and the profiteers too firmly against it. But something's gonna change and I reckon it will surprise us all. Willy, I'm impressed, you've been doing some research, you, and others may find the following sites interesting, for a simple explanation of the Earth's obliquity. http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Study/Paleoclimatology_Evidence/ http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Study/Paleoclimatology_Evidence/paleoclimatology_evidence_2.html There is also some good info on other feedback mechanisms. It's late here now, but I'll comment more tomorrow, my time. Could we agree that a clean, healthy planet and less greedy populace would be a great thing for our grandkids?Sure, but I just simply do not accept your premise. There are more trees in North America today than there were 500 years ago. Over the past 30 years the environment has become much cleaner. Furthermore, There is no reason to believe that the progress humans have made in environmentally friendly technologies and products will cease to improve. Our grandkids will have a cleaner world just as the world today is cleaner than it was 20 years ago, and 20 years ago the developed world was vastly cleaner than the developed world of the early 20th century. But a clean envir... Also, papananook, I would wage decent money that I am more green than most of the loons you see here espousing fear and wishing death on people simply because they hate oil. I love the environment.. I hunt, fish, practice outdoor photography, hike often, camp. I truly love the environment and spend a lot of time in nature. It is also a huge priority of mine to pass respect for the environment down to my children, nieces, and nephews. I go out of my way to use environmentally friendly appliances, light bulbs, I have even gone to great expense to install LEDs in my landscaping. When the cost becomes more acceptable to me I may even strongly consider installing a wind turbine because I like th... vk2yoc, Here is some more. Gosh Papananook, it looks like the old willy is back, so as a "loony green" perhaps I should respond in the old manner. Willy, which of the following is true, vk2yoc, did you know Mars, Jupiter, Neptune, Saturn, Pluto, and Neptune's moon, Triton, have all been determined to be in warming trends similar to Earth's. Can you tell me any planets or moons in the Solar System that buck this trend and are presently cooling? However, The fact that cooling is occurring on other planet shows that the trend could be reversing soon on Earth.You can't have it both ways Willy, it just destroys your credability. Dan ya just make one little clip about the doomed earth and....I'm glad you responded VK2yoc, ya saved me the trouble and were much more civil than I woulda been to...Willleeeeeeeee!!!!! Another statement that shows little thought, "There are more trees in North America today than there were 500 years ago." Think about that Willy. Incidentally, where I live, I can look out on hundreds of thousands of trees, and there are kangaroos and other animals living in my backyard. I know a little about nature, I live in it! Vk2yoc. I thought I was clear on the reason for this. The Earth has these little things we like to call "oceans" and another rather well developed thing we refer to as an "atmosphere". There is lag time for every planet in it's response to solar irradiance. Besides, you are missing the point - The Earth has warmed by 0.7 degrees this century. No one denies there has been warming. The period of cooling I am referring to is only a period of 15 years. That is not enough time time make a statistical measure for the general trend of global temps. In the last 100 years in comparison wiht the other planets and moons I've mentioned, we are in sync. Now, I know that you probably think you have ... vk2yoc, given your comment on 7:29, you show yourself to be an imbecile. Good luck. Oh, Gawd...now Willie is fuckin' NATURE BOY. And by the way, If I point out facts and clip scientists' studies that are factual, doesn't mean I'm some kinda green loony preaching...just buzz it, Willie...damn I'm tired of your know-it-all pseudo-intellectual snobbery. go for a fuckin' loooong hike! Hug a grizzly.... Do you have to use foul language, papananook? Can you point to any place where I commented to you in the nature and style with which you comment to me? It is, frankly, uncalled for. Yes, I do...since this was my clip,anyway, Mr. Purity....It's me, it's how I talk in company of friends and if ya don't like it don't come here with your snobbery and incipient, innate Puritan ethic...Now BUGGER OFF!!! If you are unfamiliar with the term, ask some common Englishman. Or complain to Eric, ya whiner. I'm so pissed off right now, I don't care. Or complain to EricI don't complain to anyone, papananook. I just ask questions, offer facts, clarify differences, point out fallacies, unveil a whole bunch o' ignorance and try to understand the best I can. I don't think I've ever given you any reason to address me the way you do. You just hate me (the person) because you hate my opinion. That is sad. Its ALL much ado about nothing of any significance. I inabit a very different world than my grandfather and my grandkids will inhabit a very different world than I. If you take 50 generations past and 50 generations forward you will find it is barely enought time to make even a slight change in the planets biosphere. Humans are very short-sighted and full of themselves. Pretty immature of an intelligent species but we are still young so it must be forgiven. Always with the spin, right, Willhelm?...I don't hate you (the person) but recognize an attitude you have that I have already described and attacked...It's boorish and I'm very tired of hearing it. But you never seem to hear anybody else's opinion because you are so full of your self. THAT's what's sad. Wrong on all counts, papananook. I agree with you, skwirl |
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