 ratilfar says: Read the whole article, it is illuminating to say the least. I thought this passage said it best: " If you listen to a lot of conservatives, they'll tell you that the difference between them and us is that conservatives love America and liberals hate America.... They don't get it. We love America just as much as they do. But in a different Way. You see, they love America the way a 4-year-old loves her Mommy. Liberals love America like grown-ups. To a 4-year-old, everything Mommy does is wonderful and anyone who criticizes Mommy is bad. Grown-up love means actually understanding what you love, taking the good with the bad, and helping your loved one grow. Love takes attention and work and is the best thing in the world." very nice find rat; it was "humane" of the author to keep the list short, because it isn't..... All nations and people have skeletons in their closet, we are human after all. But this idea that the U.S. does not or that somehow it is "all in the past" is bizarre in the extreme. It only serves to justify new outrages, like what is happening today. Different names, same goals, same outcomes. Pop for alanocu, May you find peace As long as the Gov't keeps lying to it's people (remember we the people?) it deserves to be damned--that is the short context of Rev. Wright's quite truthful and inspiring sermon. I don't care about his fiery tone--I even like it and i'm an ol' white guy. Let it rip, Reverend, just like MLK did and was vilified for when he spoke against the war. Fuck' em if they can't take it. The truth isn't meant to be whispered, damn it. It needs to be shouted from the hilltops and in the valleys, in the streets and churches. Can I get an AMEN?! LOL, no but there is truth in what you say Since when did the American ear get all hyper-sensitive and unable to hear thew truth? Since an entire generation, nay, two generations, bought into the Myth of America peddled by Hollywood and the Right. Nobody 'peddled' anything... and the article is bogus in its assumptions. We (i.e. the right) understand the history no less than anyone else. We also choose not to dwell on all the bad things that happened in the past, although liberals clearly do. If one was to look objectively at any country and any people - one would find nothing but all kinds of negative events and happenings. ANY COUNTRY on this planet!!! The question is what we learn from those events and how we behave now and what we teach our children to do tomorrow. By the implication of this article and most liberals of today - I should be hating Germans like the lowest people on earth (and you liberals, who supposedly 'ca... Nobody 'peddled' anything...You never heard of John Wayne have you? The question is what we learn from those events and how we behave now and what we teach our children to do tomorrow.Indeed that is the question, and the answer is no. Because if that where the case Iraq would not have happened. If that where the case the Republican party would try so hard to overturn the Great Society and the New Deal. As long as Germany and its people learned the lessons of the past and aren't repeating it - that's all the can be asked.They have, which is good for them. Yes, it was wrong to have slavery and racism, nobody disputes that... but Ameri... Plus lets look at more recent history. You wonder why Saddam and his henchmen where not tried based on their most heinous crimes instead they where tried and convicted of lesser (yet still horrific) crimes? Because the hand of foreign governments, including Britain, Russia and the U.S. would be all over those acts (like providing the money, know how and materials that made the use of WMDs possible). Or how crimes related to crack cocaine carry harsher penalties than other controlled substances. Could it be that crack cocaine is used mostly by African Americans? Or the focus on "enforcement" and not on "prevention" and "treatment". I could go on and on. But the difference still remains. Som... Thats a good list. Kudos alanocu. I never said America was perfect. In fact I don't believe perfection exists or achievable by the mankind for too many reasons to mention. I am certainly very much pro-American for many reasons, but I do not think it's perfect and all for improvement. As for America being better than before - only a blind man (and ignorant to boot) wouldn't see it. Sure there's a certain amount of racism in certain circles... and if you think you'll ever be able to totally overcome it - it is you who is hopelessly ignorant. As for the Indians - it's exactly the same story as with the Iraqis - they certainly have the freedom to do better these days, but choose not to. Their substance abuse and thus pover... the USA should certainly be able to do the same. Again, the opportunities and possibilities are there and even more so for them... but they need to take the steps to take advantage of them. Blaming the wrongs of the past won't help them one bit... in fact I'd argue that it does nothing but perpetuate the environment, the 'victim' mentality, if you will, that helps noone and accomplishes nothing. And mistakes of the past, as unfortunate as they were, will likely be repeated by someone... since neither you nor I control other people - we can't really avoid those. As for what constitutes a mistake or not is highly debatable... just because I have a different opinion than you - certainly doe... And big kudos to Alanocu!!!! There's an example of an Indian for you. Why don't you praise him for his outlook on things (thanks alanocu for though incomplete but certainly meaningful list) and just look at the things he's interested in, what kinds of things he clips, his comments. You don't find that worthy of praise and admiration, considering everything that happened to his ancestors? I certainly do. And NOT because of what he is (i.e. Indian), but because of what he shows himself to be. That's admirable! As for the Indians - it's exactly the same story as with the Iraqis - they certainly have the freedom to do better these days, but choose not to. Their substance abuse and thus poverty etc. is self-inflicted and unfortunately they aren't strong enough to overcome it and do better.That is the most ignorant thing I have read in a long time. You should check your facts. Its their fault their poor, I see. Its their fault their lands are still under direct Federal jurisdiction. Its their fault that their still lock in legal battles that are decades old. Its their fault that they get discriminated against. Wow.... Somebody should polish that White Lense(tm), its a bit cloudy. I did praise him, are you forgetting to read to? And mistakes of the past, as unfortunate as they were, will likely be repeated by someone... since neither you nor I control other people - we can't really avoid those.So if they happen, so what as long as it doesn't affect you its ok? Blaming the wrongs of the past won't help them one bit... in fact I'd argue that it does nothing but perpetuate the environment, the 'victim' mentality, if you will, that helps noone and accomplishes nothing. Ignoring the continuing realities of today won't help either. The "it is their fault" meme is great, if you don't want to invest in those things that help everybody. These opportunities did not spring up from the air you know, they happen because people fought for them, and the only that happens is by tackling these problems head on. Again, ignoring history doesn't help. And in order to face a problem you have to admit it is there. no, it's NOT ok... and it DOES affect me... but again since I can't control others - obviously I can't stop them from doing something right or wrong. Simple logic... What about the goverment? These acts where (and many times) are not done in isolation. Do you simply shrug and say, oh what the hell, it got nothing to do with me, cause I can't do anything about it? Well, this is why we get to vote... speaking of government. Will it make a difference? If enough vote - absolutely. Here again the problem lies with people - MANY don't vote, which I think is totally wrong. To me it's a privilege & a duty to vote. It's a simple thing to do and everyone should, but since they don't - a lot of times elections don't come out as they would otherwise. Here again I blame the people (who don't vote). Unfortunately we haven't had George Washingtons or Thomas Jeffersons for quite a while when it comes to stellar candidates. Although watching some of the show John Adams on HBO (we don't have at home, but here at the resort they have HBO, so I saw a part yester... Get over Democrats and Republicans. They are the problem. Work to find common ground and understand that we will never totally agree on all subjects. Learn from your mistakes past, present and future. Quit fighting over who is right and who is wrong. Enough said. As much as I want to agree with you tla1957 - what you're saying is philosophy, not reality. The government in the USA is elected and the system is such that it's a 2-party system. I wish it wasn't, but it is. And as 200+ year old history of the country shows - there's never been a single President who wasn't from one of the 2 parties. Not that other didn't try - they just never got even close to winning the elections. So until such a day when overwhelming masses turn away from both parties - one has to vote for one of them, if one wants the vote to count. Someone will always be right... and someone else lef...I mean wrong  ... nature of the beast.Good sentiment though, certainly worthy of praise. P.S. I'm not counting the Whig Party of pre-Civil War (I figure I better get that in before I get slammed with accusations), nor Washington & Adams, just to be totally factual. |
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