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arifsalifollowshare
8-13-2008 5:02 PM
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arifsali says:
Interesting article, at the source
25 Comments   | Add a Comment
8-14-2008 10:42 AM
tanyamm
Christians have done the same thing with the Bible. Whether it's the Qur'an or the Bible there will always be those who are unfortunately going to interpret verses to mean what they want.
8-14-2008 2:41 PM
The REAL Napster
Lots of places wereby translation, interpretation and plain old misunderstandings can take place. I see another Saudi man just killed his daughter because she converted to Christianity, a so-called honor killing that is tolerated in middle eastern cultures.

The following are only some of the verses in the Qur'an that can and have been used in the history of Islam in support of violence in the name of God and the glories of martyrdom in a holy war.

2:190-193 "Fight in the cause of God those who fight you ... And slay them wherever ye catch them ... And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression and there prevail justice and faith in God ..."

2:216 "Fighting is prescri...
8-14-2008 2:41 PM
The REAL Napster
4:89 "They but wish that ye should reject faith as they do, and thus be on the same footing as they. But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of God. But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them…"

4:95 "Not equal are those believers who sit at (at home) and receive no hurt and those who strive and fight in the cause of God with their goods and their persons. God hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than those who sit (at home).

5:36 "The punishment of those who wage war against God and His apostle and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifix...
8-14-2008 2:42 PM
The REAL Napster
or into (the hearts of) the enemies of God and your enemies and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom God doth know ..."

8:65 "O apostle! Rouse the believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred. If a hundred they will vanquish a thousand of the unbelievers, for these are a people without understanding."

9:5 "... fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war) ..."

9:14 "Fight them, and God will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame ..."

9:29 "Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day nor hold that fo...
8-14-2008 4:22 PM
arifsali
Napster, I don't see a need for debate here, but if you read books and could spare some time then I highly recommend you get this book.
8-14-2008 4:27 PM
arifsali
BTW, I thought I check at least one of your quoted verse with one of the commonly available sources I may know.

You quoted: 2:190-193 "Fight in the cause of God those who fight you ... And slay them wherever ye catch them ... And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression and there prevail justice and faith in God ..."

And here' what I see:

Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors. (190)

You see friend, you're quoting from anti-Islamic sources.
8-15-2008 3:57 AM
Freewheelin Franklin
Yeah, scary stuff religion isn't it?

Deuteronomy 7:1-2
When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.

20:10-17 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else...
8-15-2008 11:44 AM
arifsali
I second that. Napster nailed it.
I beg to differ, he is shown quoting misinterpretation from hostile sources. I'm sure you wouldn't want people to quote Christian scriptures from anti-Christian sources. I also do not think religion is scary stuff, it is just a reflection of yourself, how you interpret life.
8-15-2008 9:54 PM
walski69
Throughout history scripture has had this tendency of being (mis)interpreted in ways to satisfy other agendas. And it's not unique to Islam, either.

True, there are verses of a violent nature in the Quran, but when read in the proper context and in it's intended entirety, you will find that the underlying message is peace amongst mankind. Taking half-verses and placing wrong context are popular techniques not only of those hostile towards Islam, but also by so-called Muslims with other, more devious agendas...

Peace to all...
8-15-2008 11:43 PM
arifsali
It's the actions that concern me.
You have a limited outlook of the world and it's history.
8-16-2008 1:03 AM
willhelm
Arif, you are hilarious and duplicitous. I just do not know how you can maintain a straight face given your outlandishness toward Christianity. And You expect us to believe your garbage about the "religion of peace" ?

8-16-2008 9:05 AM
arifsali
Is that a question or a comment? Appears to be wasting time.
8-16-2008 9:05 AM
arifsali
Yes, Religion of Peace. Care to read and expand your horizon?
8-16-2008 11:59 AM
BobbyRutan
So TNT, how did Christianity purify itself and atone for it's sins after the genocide of the American Indian.

Depending on your time line that can be recent history. Horrific regardless.
8-17-2008 12:40 AM
BobbyRutan
That shows your shallowness. Indians are just play things to be shot I guess.

Okay, how about the millions of Jews killed in World War II. I won't get into the argument about whether Hitler was christian or not but his regime certainly used the trappings of christianity to work their evilness.
8-17-2008 10:25 AM
BobbyRutan
Like I said, I won't argue that Hitler was christian. I will state that he used christian trappings to further his hatred of the jews, secure his power, and allow him to implement his plans. His rallies, propaganda, and public speeches are rife with christian references and there is plenty of documentation on that, including the duplicitous help by the Catholic church. Christians fell for it and fell in line.

I believe your comments show a certain disregard and insensitivity that could very well have allowed you to be one of the christians participating in the genocide of the American Indian (which isn't really wwwaaaayyy back there in years except to the short sighted).
8-17-2008 10:28 PM
BobbyRutan
Conservatives always stress that this nation was founded on christianity and Indians were always seen as godless heathens. That is what allowed people to have no conscience about committing a genocide against them.

So I brought you into the 20th century when we witnessed christian society committing a genocide against the jews. Was that not recent enough for you as an example of the followers of the christian religion being capable of unspeakable crimes against their fellow humans?
8-17-2008 11:08 PM
The REAL Napster
BobbyRutan-
I don't recall the Nazi party (the ones most repsonsible for the holocaust) being considered 'Christian' by any means.

As far as the settlers and Indians were concerned, Yes the settlers most likely viewed the Indians as 'savages' and therefore were not above killing them, even if only in self defense. Tragic, but true.

now back to the original topic of this thread-

The ICC pointed out the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom has reported textbooks at the Saudi Arabian government school in Northern Virginia teach, "It is permissible for a Muslim to kill an apostate (a convert from Islam)."
8-18-2008 12:09 AM
BobbyRutan
@Napster

As I have stated all ready. The Nazis used christian trappings, symbolism, and references and the public bought into it. The catholic church worked with the Nazi government. It's all well documented.

TNT made the comment that the world should not worry about christian murderers and that is what I am addressing.
8-19-2008 3:41 PM
arifsali
TNT, may I please ask you to clip your proven links in your own clips? Thanks.
8-19-2008 9:08 PM
BobbyRutan
TNT,

How about the genocide in Bosnia. Nice lovely human atrocities at the hands of christians. Now we have moved up to only a decade ago.

You still aren't making the case that christians are any less capable of wanton murder than other religions.
8-20-2008 12:00 PM
Jorjor
...the problem is, that Christians aren't murdering scores of people on a daily basis in the name of their lord. Muslims are. I'm not defending Christianity, I'm just stating the obvious.
The thing is that as the nations in which Christianity operate became more secular in governance, the various churches couldn't justify their killing ways and had their powers of sentencing limited to ecclesiastical procedures such as censure or excommunication. As recently as the late 1800s, the reigning pope said:

The death sentence is a necessary and efficacious means for the Church to attain its ends when obstinate heretics disturb the ecclesiastical order -- Leo XIII (Vincenzo Pecci, ...
8-21-2008 11:20 AM
Jorjor
There are fucking evil bastards on both sides. Where we disagree with you is that you give Christians a pass for all their atrocities. This wqorld would have been a better placwe without either Christianity or Islam.
8-21-2008 10:15 PM
BobbyRutan
Thanks jorjor for recognizing the obvious that TNT in his prejudiced bias is incapable of realizing.

Over 1,500,000 Iraqis dead due to a war sold on a pack of lies started by a guy (dickweed) who said God spoke to him and told him to invade Iraq.

Plenty of guilt to go around.
8-23-2008 9:24 AM
BobbyRutan
No one said Saddam was a good guy.

But Saddam was contained, had a rusting military, and possessed no WMD's. He was in no way a threat to the U.S. The 9/11 bombers were from, and funded, by Saudi Arabia.

The Iraq War was a war built on a pack of lies by a delusional chrisitian leader who thinks god talks to him.

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