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Gaijin21followshare
5-13-2007 2:42 AM495 views
Gaijin21 says:
Perhaps people should be reminded that "terroism" according to the U.S. is:
...any activity that (A) involves a violent act or and act dangerous to human life that is violation of the criminal law of the United States or any State, or that would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States or of any State; and (B) appears to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by assassination or kidnapping. -- From the United States Code Congressional and Administrative News, 98th Congress, Second Session, 1984, Oct. 19, volume 2; par. 3077, 98 STAT. 2707 (West Publishing Co., 1984)
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Now, what is the US doing through force?
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5-13-2007 11:11 AM
The REAL Napster
Jihadis should be the ones to blame if you want to include 'innocent' lives being lost. Blowing up car bombs to try and kill a few soldiers and instead killing hundreds of innocent men, women and children is not only cowardly but just poor results at best.
If you look at the ratios of military people killed vs. the general population, the math doesn't lie.

America has a military. They wear uniforms with names and rank. They are not running around dressed in 'civilian' clothing that the general population wears. This makes it painfully obvious who an American soldier 'is'. This certainly puts the U.S. at a disadvantage, when they are clearly identified as such and their enemies are n...
5-13-2007 12:48 PM
BobbyRutan
There was an interesting clip that many pro-war clipmarkers seized on that Japan did not invade the US because every household had a gun (NOTE: there seems to be some debate whether these words were actually ever said by the Japanese military man in question).

I was just wondering if, the US were invaded then, was every US citizen going to put on a military uniform before defending their country?
5-13-2007 1:49 PM
The REAL Napster
There was an interesting clip that many pro-war clipmarkers seized on that Japan did not invade the US because every household had a gun (NOTE: there seems to be some debate whether these words were actually ever said by the Japanese military man in question).
You mean this one? So far the only person I have found to dispute it is clipuser jklugman. The 'story' itself is in several places on the internet and is NOT disputed by anyone else for years, until now, by one person? I hardly call that discrediting the source. If it were in question don't you think that others would have noticed thi...
5-13-2007 3:58 PM
BobbyRutan
You side stepped the point. I don't need a refresher on WW II.

What I asked is an honest question. Do you think Americans if their home soil was invaded would put on uniforms before defending their homes?
5-13-2007 5:38 PM
The REAL Napster
I did not side-step intentionally, but not give the answer you seek apparently. I think most Americans would most certainly 'put on unifiorms' to defend their home country. And as referenced in my post above, Americans didn't even wait that long to do so in WWII. I will and have, as others before me. The ones who don't would probably run off to Canada. .
5-13-2007 6:43 PM
jklugman
So far the only person I have found to dispute it is clipuser jklugman. The 'story' itself is in several places on the internet and is NOT disputed by anyone else for years, until now, by one person? I hardly call that discrediting the source. If it were in question don't you think that others would have noticed this many years ago? Just a thought.
The burden of proof is on the story's advocates to prove it is credible. You ask to much of your readers if you ask them to believe a story found on the Internet, even if it is found on various sites. That doesn't prove anything. One person could have made it up, and since it confirms the biases of gun enthusiasts, it is not su...
5-13-2007 7:25 PM
The REAL Napster
Maybe so, but it certaintly doesn't disprove it either.
I didn't know people had to verify thier own stories that some other journalist publishes on them. I thought that was the duty of being a 'good journalist'. The events described in that meeting between old war enemies was just that, another reunoin of the surviving members of WWII from both the U.S. and Japan. I am sure there are many such stories if we want to get down to brass tacks and look for them.

As far as taking their word for it, I would believe a WWII veteran almost anyday before alot of people today. The majority of the WWII veterans have honor and dignity even though they fought in one the worst wars the world ever saw.
5-13-2007 8:36 PM
BobbyRutan
2 points real quick.

Napster my question is not whether Americans would enlist to serve their nation in the time of an invasion. That was already seen and witnessed. I am asking whether if the US had been invaded would the average joe farmer with his 30-06 or shotgun go out to meet the enemy in his civilian clothes. Which you know they would.

As for the, Japanese didn't invade because Americans had guns in their houses, I believe military strategists would see that as nonfeasible. For that matter it was a miracle they weren't spotted before attacking Pearl Harbor.

The following website shows what it took for the Allies in ships, manpower, and logistical support. I doubt invading America ...
5-13-2007 8:36 PM
BobbyRutan
Consider the following facts.

1. The Overlord invasion required 4,600 ships to travel 100 miles under the air cover of 12,000 planes to land 156,000 troops on a French coastline 3,437 miles long. Over the next three weeks, the Allies brought in another 850,000 men, 148,000 vehicles, and 570,000 tons of supplies.

2. The unopposed landing at Anzio required 369 ships to land 100,000 men. Over the next four months, the Allies brought in another 14,000 men and 450,00 tons of supplies. Despite this, and the fact that the British Eighth Army and U.S. Fifth Corps were only 50 miles away on the other side of the Gustav line, the Sixth Corps remained helplessly trapped in its small beachhead.
...
5-13-2007 8:52 PM
BobbyRutan
Also regarding the US citizenry's interests prior to Pearl Harbor

Until the day before Pearl Harbor, polls showed eighty percent of the American people did not want to fight either Germany or Japan. They approved Roosevelt's policy of all aid short of war to the nations fighting the Axis powers. But they trusted FDR's 1940 promise that he would not send their sons to fight in a foreign war. Link
5-13-2007 9:03 PM
The REAL Napster
And then the war came to America on Dec 7th, 1941.
The Japanese who were supposedly going to broker peace with the U.S. then attacked. Imagine how quickly public opinion changed after that day.
5-13-2007 9:14 PM
BobbyRutan
Well that's the point it changed after that day. You implied that Americans were very interested in confronting the Axis powers and they were not.

Secondly, it is not outlandish for any people in any country who have been invaded to defend their country in civilian clothes. We would do the same.
5-13-2007 9:58 PM
The REAL Napster
Well that's a point, but not the only one. The American people were somewhat like today...they believed (foolishly) that the war would 'stay over there' and they could remain disconnected from it. If you also check the history books you'll see alot of people believed the Japanses peace initiative and that we were wrong to even think about going to war. The Japanese surprise attack at Pearl Harbor was brillantly planned and executed except for one thing, and even the Japanese Admiral conceded this:
"I fear all we have done is awaken a sleeping giant"

So many of the people at that time were against war only because they thought peace was really possible. Oops. Big mistake. Huge.
5-14-2007 12:20 AM
BobbyRutan
Well the link I included a couple comments up is an historical perspective from a well respected historian. He surmises that things might have been different but Roosevelt was looking to find a way to get into war just as long as Japan fired the first shot. If your a history buff it's worth a read. He is the author of many history books, Thomas Fleming.

Regardless, I tend to disagree that current events are the equivalent of what was taking place in World War II.
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