 BitDrifter says: I'm very pleased this law got passed. I hope the Protestors rot in hell. That law is so blatantly unconstitutional. I hate those "God Hates Fags" protestors as much as everyone, and surely protesting at a funeral is in extremely bad taste, but government should not be in the business of regulating political speech and expression. Protesting at funeral is only "in bad taste?" Protesting at anyones funeral is attrocity I don't care who is on what side!! Come on now... this is a case where "if the morons can't control themselves then let someone else do it for them. If I had a son or daughter die and someone put on a protest at their funeral, I'd be in jail shortly there after. gotta disagree with you on this one klugman. there is a time and a place for everything...but protesting at a funeral is not one of them...and certainly not for people who died at war. i'm glad to see this law passed. Eric, my concern is that the government is telling us what is and is not appropriate behavior and speech. That is something that should be left to people, and not to governments and cops. And anyway, how do you define "offensive protest"? Would the people who raised hell about Bush at Rosa Parks' funeral be considered offensive protesters? Would a person who eulogized a KIA soldier and spoke out against the war be considered an offensive protester? Jk, you are stretching here... someone invited to a funeral who says the wrong thing, THAT is in bad taste. People who show up at a funeral UNINVITED and protest, THAT is an abomination. Eric, my concern is that the government is telling us what is and is not appropriate behavior and speech. That is something that should be left to people, and not to governments and cops.So let's say a nephew of yours died in Iraq (please do NOT let this happen to you) and at the funeral, a crowd of protestors showed up chanting, generally interrupting the services and upsetting some of your family members even more. How would you propose it be handled? I am 100% glad this law passed. I emailed enough politicians on this as this pissed me off to no end. I agree with BBW's last comment, that since these people were not invited to the funeral, they had absolutely NO business being there. I too would have been in jail had the protested at a friend or family members funeral as they would have all had the signs lodged in their mouths. Anyway - the governemt does pass stupid laws every now and then - but this is not one of them. It is a very good law. If the law outlawed disruptive conduct like unreasonably loud chanting, I guess you'd have a point. My reading of the "Respect for America's Fallen Heroes Act" suggests that even nondisruptive protests (e.g. sign waving, banner displaying, distribution of leaflets) would be outlawed. See Eugene Volokh for more on the legal technicalities involved in banning funeral protests. Jk you didn't answer me. I see a lot of you bitching about certain laws but not coming up with solutions... I ask again... So let's say a nephew of yours died in Iraq (please do NOT let this happen to you) and at the funeral, a crowd of protestors showed up chanting, generally interrupting the services and upsetting some of your family members even more. How would you propose it be handled? You gave a hypothetical. I responded if they were being disruptive, you would have a point. It looks like I misread the "Respect for America's Fallen Heroes Act". According to Eugene Volokh it: It bars only access-impeding protests within 300 feet of the cemetery entrance, and only protests that involve "noise or diversion that disturbs or tends to disturb the peace or good order of the ... ceremony" within 150 feet of the entrance road. If the latter provision is interpreted the way it has been in other laws that contain this language, it will be simply a content-neutral ban on speech that disturbs because of its noisiness and not its message. This would likely make the law constitut[b]... I'm very happy this law has been passed too - those protesters were sickening. These protesters epotomize what is wrong with America: No repect for others and a lack of decency. I'm glad this law passed too, but I am disgusted it was needed. By the way regarding their slogan, methinks they protest too much! I'll join jklugman in saying that this law is disgusting. That it is further proof of the waning of American ideals at precisely the point in time we should be embracing them. Those hillbillies got what they deserved. The only members of his so-called "church" are Rev. Phelps's family. Also, he's wised up and sent quite a few of them to law school. *Shudder* I still can not understand how there can be defense of people protesting at a funeral. What's next, protesting at a cancer patients kemo sessions? Remember those idiots making all that racket outside of the hospice in Florido during the not-so-private private decision in the Terri Shiavo affair? Defending the rights of the despicable is essential to the rights of all. If freedom is only for the nice and pleasant who decides what is nice and pleasant? The Chinese Government would say that their people are free to express themselves; they just cannot incite instability. They just need to pass the Party’s definition of “nice and pleasant”. So then, in your rights filled world, people should be able to: *Stand in the middle of a grade school naked to protest the clothing industry *Pee on any street corner since urine is effectively sterile and poses no health issue *Feel free to use racial slurs *Decide whether or not incest with their own children is a bad thing on their own *Walk into your house unannounced to protest your consumption of meat or refusal to eat it *Marry as many women as they want to *Have sex anytime, anywhere they choose I guess this also means you defend the rights of groups like the Klu Klux Klan? Neo-Nazis? The above is not a smart ass reply, not at all. It's a teeny example of what a lawless world could be like. Well I'll skip the smart ass non-smart assed reply and say I guess this also means you defend the rights of groups like the Klu Klux Klan? Neo-Nazis?yes to this question. I would. What about the others? The others are perfectly legit "freedoms" as well. If a bunch of guys with shaved heads can run around scaring the bejeebers out of people, why can't I pee on the corner if I need to? I should be able to show up at your house any time of day and make sure you're getting your daily intake of protein.  I think Ken skipped your list because the issue at hand is free speech, Rich, not lawfulness. We have decency laws to prevent the first item in your list. And as for the third, Americans are, for the most part, free to use all the racial slurs they want. Jason, he said "Defending the rights of the despicable is essential to the rights of all." Well, everything I mentioned is despicable and several others involve someone being able to express themselves. The whole point was, Where do you draw the line? At what point do we decide a law impedes on someones freedom? But, except for making racial slurs, the other items are not rights anyone has here. This one ruling won't make or break anything, but free speech is a cherished right by Josh and Ken and me and that's why we don't like to see a precedent set for its infringement...even for people who say things we utterly despise. It comes with the territory unfortunately and, on the whole, I think we're better for it. You are correct, they are not rights because there are laws against it. Laws that had to be established long after the constitution was written because people didn't know how to respect the rights of others. As an American, shouldn't I have a right to a peaceful, protest free funeral? Shouldn't I be allowed to mourn the death of someone I loved without some shoving a picket in my face for something I don't agree with? Free speech can be carried too far is all I am saying. In public spaces we do not have the right to not be offended. Those who want to gaurantee that they won't be offended will have to restrict themselves to private spaces. Oh I see... so considering in most states the town owns 14 feet from the center of the road, you won't mind if I point some Neo-Nazis down to the first 6 feet of your lawn to hold their next meeting. Then you can go out, pal around with them until they leave. I am sure you're neighbors will be ok with that, right?  Would both of you gentlemen like to convince us that you would have no problem with one of your daughters marrying the head of the KKK either? You guys all talk the talk but the fact is, the minute something like this happens to you, it will piss you off. Come on, admit it!  No one WANTS to be offended. The question is how much offense are you willing to PUT UP with for the sake of preserving your own free speech? There is really no happy spot when people start acting out, as we have noticed on this list. Over the past few decades we have been moving towards cutting the edges off free speech. While each clip seems eminently reasonable, the remaining area gets a little smaller and something else becomes the most extreme that is still permissible. Frankly, I consider these guys despicable. If their community really objects, perhaps they would find it hard to earn a living. This might clip their wings. Apparently, they are able to earn a living, which sugge... Merican for the second time since I've known you, you have made sense of a subject for me. There is hope for you yet. you have made sense of a subject for me.Amaruca, I think you missed the prepositional phrase at the end of that sentence. It reads "for me." Meaning Wolf doesn't usually understand Merican's point, not that Merican is objectively nonsensical. The second sentence is a friendly jab, which you obviously can't relate to. I think that a funeral is not a public enough event for protesting to be allowed at it. I would also have no problem with protesting being banned from weddings, as both are usually religious and extremely meaningful events for those involved. The whole point of a funeral is to bring emotional closure to the family and friends of the deceased. It is not at ... OK, Am. Kris, just read what she says as she meant it to be read and it really is funny. You see, even when I say something nice she tries to jab me. It's that "Pick on the person you really like syndrome" that was discussed here once before. It is quite obvious she has a desire for me. BBW! I fear that all the attention yesterday went to your head!  Anon, your attention (be it positive or negative) is much more valuable. This is just mind play in comparison. *wink* BTW Merican, don't listen to them... my comment to you was sincere in the first half and joking in the second. You really did clarify several thoughts of the liberal side to me. Wolf - So you're saying I pegged your comment right or not? I was sleepy when I wrote all that, btw. And yes, I caught her condescending "sweetheart" thrown in there as she accused you of condescending. I laughed today when I read it all, but last night I was just annoyed. Yea Kj you called it right and that was some pretty intelligent wordage for being sleepy. Just laugh... because by now I get the impression that she is a prank someone is playing on us. It has to be! Kind of like Clipette? I missed this discussion until now and I just noticed the following contribution made by JKlugman, which applies perfectly here at Clipmarks: In public spaces we do not have the right to not be offended. Those who want to gaurantee that they won't be offended will have to restrict themselves to private spaces. Well, I think it goes farther than just offense or personal social rules, though. This could cause serious psychological problems for those grieving. agreed Kristenjo, just saying that it applies well in most cases, and here. *takes gloves off* Why the hell was I wearing gloves... Yeah, I caught it on second reading. Sorry. Why would you be wearing gloves, dishpan hands perhaps? Um, no, I was referring to Amaruca's comment. I shouldn't be wearing gloves at all this time of year....it's 90 degrees outside, and I don't get dishpan hands. We have a dishwasher....we're the first in our neighborhood to get one. *hyuck* I was referring to her as well darlin! ok. Kind of like Clipette?*gloves off* Hehe. Y'all make me laugh. |
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