 egoldstein says: You can bitch and moan about Kerry all you want. But he's not the one who got us into this mess. He's also not the one who just got told by Iraq's Prime Minister to lift a blockade despite the fact that it would result in leaving an American soldier behind and enable Sadr to run wild. GW and Crew need something to take people's focus off the problems in Iraq and mess he and his crew created, so Kerry is an easy scapegoat. I'm just so disgusted now. I would say I'm just going to let my vote speak for me on tuesday but voter fraud is another can of worms. *sighs sadly* Do you think Iraq was heaven on earth before the US went in? Do you remember the Iraqi Olympic team? This is Muslim on Muslim crime. The US is trying to provide a perimeter for the Iraqi government to handle it as Iraqis. Amazing...the very people who condemn the US for going into Iraqi now want us to go into Darfur. Go figure. The UN has been just as impotent there as it was in Iraq and probably just as corrupt and parasitical. Kerry contributed to the undermining of the war effort in Vietnam. That was his free choice as a soldier and an American. Don't blast us for believing he was wrong then and wrong now. First of all, the genocide that's occurring in Darfur massively trumps what was taking place in Iraq. Second, the people who decided that liberating the Iraqis was the right thing to do should be doing the same for the people of Darfur. The situation in Sudan is a wee bit different .... China has a major stake in Sudan's recently-discovered oil! jatfla, sure, it was no paradise before we went in, but things are much worse now. Something on the order of one to two thousand civilians are dying violently every day. Imagine a new 9-11 every week. That's what's been happening to the Iraqis since we got there. Maybe it's not our fault, but you can't exactly blame them for being a little bitter. Jetfla - Vietnam was a big mistake. Iraq is a very large mistake. No one can change 3,000+ years of culture, we are wasting our time there and causing innnocent people to die as well as innocent US troops. The Bush Admin might just consider it all collateral damage, but the rest of the world considers it plain wrong, just like the Vietnam war - it was plain wrong to send our troops there to die. Funny, but I could have swore Kerry voted to authorize the use of force in Iraq? Or did he vote for it before he voted against it or vice versa? @n2sooners Aaaaand ... so what? Sooooo, the statement above that says Kerry didn't get us into this mess is wrong. You're making a joke, right? You think Kerry's more responsible than, say, Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, and the Project for the New American Century? The thing is, Kerry's not really a part of this story, is he? This is Bush and Cheney's war, and it's looking more and more like a disastrous mistake every week. The fact that Kerry made some idiotic remarks the other day is just a distraction. Look, I was addressing the person who posted this story. I am not the one who brought Kerry up, he did. It isn't my fault Kerry brought up how many on the left truly feel about our troops (as evidenced by many lefty blogs defending his original statement). He, along with many other democrats voted to send us to war and now they do nothing but try to belittle the troops and make sure the war turns out to be a failure. The only way we lose in Iraq is if we throw in the towel, and democrats started waiving that towel before the troops even got to Baghdad. It just proves again that Bush is showing his greatness again as the Great Divider. The only way we lose in Iraq is if we throw in the towelI wish i believed that. I hope you're right, believe me. Just doesn't seem like our leaders have any clue what they're doing. That's not a sign of my patriotism. That's simply a sign of my interpretation of what i've sign. To say that we're losing and doing a horrible job in Iraq is not to be un-american. You can be the biggest fan of a team in sports but still say that they're bad after losing 20 games in a row. To stick with the analogy, i'm a big fan of America. I just think we have a terrible coach. When all a person chooses to read or see is the "horrible job in Iraq", of course that person would think we're losing. It's obvious that the larger percentage of clippers here move in different circles than I do. I see progress and hope. And to think that things are worse (the killings) now than under Saddam is pretty naive. That man, his family and his *party* were responsible for 100's of thousands of innocent peoples' deaths. No one cared before. What we see from Baghdad and Sadr city, covered by news organizations (because the US is there) was a common occurrence through out the region....as it has become through out the world. @n2sooners What do you think it would mean to "win" in Iraq, seeing how Bush and his people have stopped talking about a "democratic" Iraq as their goal? @jatfla Naive? I wish it were true, but I don't think it is. If I remember right, before the war, Bush was claiming that Saddam had killed 300,000 people over the 24 years of his reign (during the first 15 or so years of which we were supplying him with the weapons and money to do so). The current war has now claimed 400,000 to 600,000 Iraqi lives over three years. That's quite a change. Our own intelligence services have said that the war in Iraq has made terrorists stronger. How is it naive to say things have gotten worse than th... oh-o say can you see...... nothing meant. just adding an off the top of my head thought while reading this thread. Do you think Iraq was heaven on earth before the US went in?I still can't forget those couple of dressed up women interviewed by one of the news channel right before we invaded, they were saying something to the extent of why you're doing this to us? The camera man was walking around the street showing people going their merry way of daily life. What is heaven in such context? Your question is pathetic under the circumstances. arif, Although I don't want to speak for Jatfla, I think it's difficult, perhaps even impossible, for her to see Bush in any other light than a moral and Christian person who represents her values. I know it's hard for me to imagine Bush as anything other than a sociopath. Our opinions and values are much more formed by our enviroment and our life's experiences than we would care to admit. Time and history will bear witness to the truth like it always does. Thank you debbyski....there's a lot of truth in what you are saying. arifsali....and I'll never forget the video of the Iraqi man with this huge poster of Saddam walking around the jubilant streets in Baghdad, banging the picture with his shoe and praising the US. And l have a tendency to disagree with much of what is being said about Bush and all the negativity about what's bad in Iraq because of the news media. I believe they only tell and show us what they want to and none of it is the good stuff. Was watching a program a week or so ago and the author of "Greatest Story Ever Sold" was being interviewed. There were servicemen in the audience saying that there is a lot of good that is being done that we don't see. (And we've been hearing it thru our military but not seeing it in the media). The author of the book says the media controls what we see and know, and that folks in other countries see much more than we do. That we are actually censore... I didnt bother finishing all the comments because I am sure they all say generally the same thing.....what amazes me is that none of you are thinking about the long term good we could provide Iraq, to give a country so struck with poverty and terrorism a chance at freedom. You take the bad things that come out of Iraq and jump on the bandwagon. Try digging a bit deeper and look at the good, which is 10 times more prevelent than the bad but media doesn't bother showing. Funny, but I could have swore Kerry voted to authorize the use of forceKerry did vote, but who was the one that said and provided "Evidence" that Mr. Hussein had WMD.  Try digging a bit deeper and look at the good, which is 10 times more prevelent than the bad but media doesn't bother showing.Okay, ucmc6531, I'm all ears. What good are you thinking of? Yeah, I've seen that site, but honestly I didn't see a lot of significant news -- more like Reader's Digest style human interest pieces, at least on the front page, plus lots of links to DoD and White House webpages. Can you give me an example of a specific piece of good news that offsets the hundreds of daily deaths? Enbar, the sad reality is that the 'hundreds of daily deaths' won't stop just because we pull out or just because a majority voted Democratic. We (the U.S.) didn't start the wars in the middle east and too many people talk as if we did. It's time to get over that. Already, the assinine terrorists are claiming to have succeeded in making us step down by the very way in which our democratic society voted. Was the public brainwashed or something? What did I miss? And how did they (terrorists) manage to do that? Was it when they stepped up their level of terror and their plans to do more in order to push impeachment? If anyone thinks that merely voting Democratic is going to change the... Jatfla is kidding right....he is comparing Dafur with Iraq... I have a VERY SIMPLE question....since Dafur made Iraq look like a picnic, why DIDN'T Bush choose that INSTEAD? He would have had the support of the UN and MANY MORE nations than with the Iraq War. There would be no criticism of the US alone, because many other nations would have helped. Hmmm...maybe it has something to do with the fact that Iraq represents an opportunity, but Dafur just means helping people and getting nothing in return. Was watching a program a week or so ago and the author of "Greatest Story Ever Sold" was being interviewed.Oprah, i saw it too... other servicemen in the audience said it was horrible over there too.. I don't think anyone really doubts that the soldiers are TRYING their hardest to do the bes they can and make Iraq safe. The big issue is if anything can be done. I mean 150,000 troops, the best weapons, armor, intelligence money can buy and the country is getting worse and worse. in order to "free" Iraq, you have to eradicate the negative influences. Those influences mainly seem to be differences in religious ideologies of 3 major groups (Sunni, Shia, Kurds), plus you ... bookchick49, you are dodging my question, which was originally directed at usmc5361. The point is, things have gone disastrously wrong in Iraq. Everything the Bush administration told us about it has turned out to be wrong. No WMD, no ties to al-Qaeda, no "greeting as liberators," no "the operation will pay for itself," ... i could go on. I didn't say that the Democrats are going to magically fix everything that's gone wrong, and i don't believe they, or anyone else, could. The point here is that instead of trading idiotic allegations about what John Kerry did or didn't mean when he made a stupid remark at a rally, we ought to be having a serious and honest national conversation about the fa... point noted and taken. sorry. |
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