 debbyski says: Guess what conservative America? There are so many gays and lesbians in your own families. In fact, I doubt there's on American family today that doesn't count at least one gay or lesbian member somewhere in its ranks. Count them--and then love them. Isn't it totally un-Christ-like to turn against your own son or daughter, or brother or sister, just because he or she happens to be gay, lesbian, or bisexual? What difference does it make? He may be gay, but he's still your son. She may be a lesbian, but she's still your daughter. Sure, evangelical ministers and conservative politicians will continue to denounce homosexuality from the pulpit and urge parishioners to join them in denying equal rights to gays and lesbians. And some poor misguided souls will blindly agree. But their hate speech will eventually fail, as people realize those attacks are directed against the people they love the most, their family members. I think its great that she came out, although I don't think she would've been wrong if she had not. I really don't see why people get so caought up in people's sexual preference. Couldn't agree with you more, Deb, but frankly, until she answers clearly in the affirmative to a pointed question, or makes a very clear-cut statement of "I am", I don't take her as coming out, at least not in the sense that she cares that people clearly know without doubt what she does in private and with who. She may have opened the door, but she hasn't stepped into the sunshine. Certainly as time goes forward she may by action confirm the idea she has given clear birth to with this statement, but still she hasn't declared. That's OK, too, I think. It's called decorum. Staying in the closet can be an emotionally draining and full of guilt experience for some people Bear. Coming out can be even scarier for others. But none the less, there has been lots of progress for the gay/lesbian/bisexual community. I admire such an intensely person as herself to take those baby steps. intensely private person (I wish we had a way to edit our comments here on CM sometimes) Good for her, and for all the others that take the step but do not have celebrity status. I blame Hannibal Lekter for this!*Sigh* There goes another erotic fantasy up in smoke.I guess I'll have to stop calling her now.  *LOL* swampy, she will still probably take your calls but no phone sex baby Good for her. I think this is funny. Jodie Foster comes out? GaWD ... she's been out of the closet for so long I even forgot she was IN the closet. Seriously, everybody knew Jodie Foster was one of the girls .... Since er, um, The Nabisco Dinah Shore Golf Tournament, since, before Ellen, before Rosie, Privacy is one thing, being in the closet... well, maybe it is another? Is a person's right to privacy different from a STAR's right to privacy? Sticky issue. Funny. Jodie out of the closet. Next somebody will be telling us Oprah is out of the closet Gail the assistant has moved in and kicked Stedman to the curb! Couldn't have said it better NonStatQuo.  *LOL* Status! Now if Condi, will only come out next, sigh . . . http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/C6BD0304-8017-427E-A67E-94F0C67656FE/ *LOL* There are obviously some in GW's family; again Condi, baby, please come out!!!!! It's so dark and guilt ridden in there, especially with Lynne writing those western novels and all . . .  actually, though I'm not sure I'd go so far as bartending bear. Demanding that someone come out to that extent is problematic for me from a philosophical perspective. It is demanding that a person make an absolute and polarized statement about something that is a very subjective and personal perspective, one which I can virtually gaurantee you is more complex than black and white. I realize the political struggle that is going on, and I'm totaly in support of one of the most contentious civil rights battles of the decade, BUT, what, after all, are we all fighting for? For me, at least, this is about the right to be who you want to be, not who people tell you to be. If that doesn't fit int... Please don't misunderstand me, O. I'm not demanding anything of anyone. I really don't care whether Jodie is gay or not, and have no expectation of her clearly remarking one way or another. My point was that she really hasn't made what amounts to a definitive statement on the issue, nothing more. There is still room for question, and that's great. Those, like NSQ, who have believed she has been out for a long time and those like Deb who believe she has now come out are both still expressing opinion. It seems likely they are right but Jodie hasn't said they are. She's just fed the fire a bit more. That's her right. Fine by me. She's a great professional person whose work I have long enjoyed. ... Ouyangwulong said: Dividing Us up into these groups will only drive us apart.I agree, but I disagree that this is somehow a "right wing" thing. Good point. It's an extremist thing. Thanks for keeping me honest. But on the other hand, I think the politics of exclusion are inherently reactionary, seeking to preserve and entrench the social inequities inherent in past societies. Thus, if we take the classical definitions of right and left as reactionary and radical, respectively, then dichotomizing our society into tidy categorizations and social positions is inherently right wing, while bringing us all together in one big hippie love fest of equality is left wing. And now for a joke in poor taste.  Now just wait a gol'darn minute! She's a LESBIAN?!?!?! Are you telling me that I SHOT Regan for NOTHING???? you go Jodi! Nice work! Now if only you would make a movie that wasn't exactly the same, like Panic Room and Brave One... return to your days of Contact and Silence of the Lambs! Oh, and Bartending Bear, I just got a little excited there with an idea, and I have a bad habit of starting with philosophy and somehow degenerating into revolutionary slogans... my bad. Just so you know, I never doubted you.  Oh, and for all those who didn't realize she was out of the closet, you must have never seen [italics]Candleshoe[/italics] from 1977. It's the Disney movie she made directly after playing the child-prostitute in [italics]Taxi Driver[/italics] She plays the butchest orphan I've ever seen! She'd totally kick Olvier Twist's ass, possibly with a razor. @Ow, I've always thought labels were worn much better on clothing . . . She plays the butchest orphan I've ever seen! She'd totally kick Olvier Twist's ass, possibly with a razor.*LOL* Did this just hit the news? Was that breakfast just now? I hadn't heard about the magazine cover. If she was ever in a closet, it was a transparent closet. Hasn't everyone always thought she was gay? I thought so so soon as I saw her, in Taxi Driver. I wish everybody could be open about who they are, whatever that might be, without the "emotionally draining and full of guilt" part. As for "I really don't see why people get so caught up in people's sexual preference", I'm just curious about them as people in general, and sexual preference is such an enormous part of who you are. I'm always interested in hearing about who's dating who, I think it naturally follows (or precedes?) to wonder which sex someone prefers. In the cause of conformity, a dirty word in my book, I have made one concession to this mainly American site. I have one label that would have two labels elsewhere. Yes sex and religion are one label. If I was female my ideal would be to have a female for loving and sex and a male for occasional fucing. Provided my job allowed me this latitude because of course the media would call be queer while selling crap at my expense about coming out in that great American tradition of hypocrisy. Would it be interesting to give honest responses - no swiftboaters - as to what if we were the opposite sex, with Jodie in mind. Interesting question right hand. After a little thought here's what it comes down to: contrafactuals. Any one false statement implies any other false statemet. For instance: Napolean is alive, therefore my Hinkley joke was funny. Given that I am a man, if I were a woman, I might also be a lesbian, or I might also be eight feet tall. Equally valid statements. I can't really divorce myself from my perspective as a man. So, IF I were a woman, I would like to think I would be a lesbian, because I think lesbians are cool. However, more likely than not, I would be nothing so exotic. Statistically, I would probably be a functionally striaght woman that liked men and perhaps had a little curiosit... If I was female my ideal would be to have a female for loving and sexRighty, you are so talking like a hetero man who luvs women right now, *LOL* Believe me, there is nothing wrong with that, I luv a healthy hetero male! It's like a guy trying to say if he was a woman he would be a prostitute and f*** as many men as he could. It's a male mind at work baby (again debby likes that) My point is that you cannot separate the fact that you are a man or you are heterosexual and put yourself into a woman's shoes and decide which sex you may be attracted to. Now, I'll answer your question. If I were a man I'd be attracted to women. Debbyski, good answers. Females kissing females is acceptable. Arab males holding hands perceived as gay? Are Western men even prepared to discuss being in the body of a female? Is bi not the best option if in the female body, yet bi seems to be unacceptable to either camp. It's like a guy trying to say if he was a woman he would be a prostitute and f*** as many men as he could. It's a male mind at work babyNo, not on my mind. Once money or violence of any type enter sex, then I'm out. I've paid once. Sex but not sexual. Business. I felt awful asking. I'm godless and yet believe absolutely in the dignity of every human being. Doesn't even make sense to me. It does give me some appreciation of the female mind. It does give me some appreciation of the female mind.OMG, Righty just one female mind *LOL* In my opinion, two hot females kissing each other is somewhat acceptible in our society. Two not so hot lesbian women kissing each other--not. Two guys kissing each other in our society--double not. (and they might get beat up if they do it in public) Again, in my opinon, female bisexuality (and I'm generalizing) is only accepted if it's within a male fantasy framework. So anything outside of that limitation is frowned upon in general. Have you ever seen "The Sex Monster": http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0159730/ This is one funn... Actually, though, this all does raise an interesting question: Why is it that hetero males fetishize lipstick lesbians? I've also known girls who were very interested in gay guys, but not as consistently, and for more emotional reasons than sexual ones. Actually, I've even had some totaly gay male friends conceede to me that lesbianism is hot. Now, that strikes me as very very very intruiging. OMG, Righty just one female mind *LOL*Do you not all think as one like the 'Borg' is it? Have you ever seen "The Sex Monster":No, but checking out your clip, I've seen it all before in my head. Ha ha. The safe space. Back later I don't think hetero males fetish about lipstick lesbians OW. In my humble opinion, I think they fetish about two extremely hot not so straight women kissing timidly at first and then going at it like crazy and inviting the man in to play. In other words, it's a common male fantasy. But like in the movie I mentioned, when the women start leaving the male out of the picture; whoops, fantasy is over--big time. When I was in high school; I had a few gay male friends try to make out with me on different occasions. I thought they were either, a little too drunk, experimenting, or maybe just being human? Who knows? Actually, I've even had some totaly gay male... Do you not all think as one like the 'Borg' is it?[b]Touché[/b] I've seen it all before in my head. Ha ha. The safe space.For sure! I think sex begins all in the mind! OMG Righty, you have so inspired me for a clip! You must be the first one to POP it! Actually, I've even had some totaly gay male friends conceede to me that lesbianism is hot. Now, that strikes me as very very very intruiging.Ok OW. One of my male gay friends just got off work and called me to say hello and I asked him about this. He said that he has always thought two lesbians having sex was hot. He also said he would love to make love to a lesbian woman. I found this whole thing interesting because he is not attracted to a hetero woman, so I asked him why and he said it was because of the attitude a lesbian woman has, not the physical component. I dunno. I wonder if it is because he finds it less threatening? Exactly, I get a lot of answers like that. The whole thing is WAY more complex than any of us imagine. That's why I like it. I guess I'll just have to do more "field research" on this subject! Oh, and, as far as I can tell, there are a lot of straight guys out there who truly are really interested in pure lesbian sex, provided the lesbians look attractive to them. (That is to say, striaght men like lipstick lesbians because they find the women conventionally physically appealing.) To quote Peter Sellers: "I like to watch." This is totally blowing my mind, because I'm seeing hetero guys who are fascinated (not to mention aroused) by sex they have NO possibility of being included in. (and for that matter aren't interested in joining.) And then gay men who are interested in joining sex that, at least theoretically, they aren't "interested" in. Ow, a lot of straight men like to see lesbian sex because of the aesthetics of women. Many straight men are also fascinated by "the home court advantage" It's sexy. But don't you think most men are secretly hoping to be able to join in? It totally blew my mind when my younger gay male friend told me lesbians were hot and he would "love" to make love to them! But generally real life lesbians, unlike bisexual women, are NOT interested in having men watch them make love Now just wait a gol'darn minute!LOL! As usual, science has the answer to all of life's important questions. *LOL* Kore! You just had to give me that link didn't you Check out my comments on it baby boy Oh, and a belated thank you Kore7, for somebody finally laughing at my Hinkley joke. Because if you hadn't laughed, lord only knows who I'd have to shoot to get the attention I crave! |
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