I must say Tany, after watching Palin speak last night, she reminded me of a foul smelling flower. Her message, all wrapped up in shiny new package is so tired. I have to wonder; does she really believe upper income tax cuts are ultimately in everyone's best interest? IMHO, knowing what you are doing is less corrupt than convincing yourself it's in a noble cause.
Smaller government, lower taxes, less regulation and a return to "traditional values" are things most GOP supporters believe in and think their leaders believe in. But the soul of conservatism remains what it always was: opposition to all movement in the diretion of social and economic equality, personal and cultur...

I must say Tany, after watching Palin speak last night, she reminded me of a foul smelling flower. Her message, all wrapped up in shiny new package is so tired. I have to wonder; does she really believe upper income tax cuts are ultimately in everyone's best interest? IMHO, knowing what you are doing is less corrupt than convincing yourself it's in a noble cause.
Smaller government, lower taxes, less regulation and a return to "traditional values" are things most GOP supporters believe in and think their leaders believe in. But the soul of conservatism remains what it always was: opposition to all movement in the diretion of social and economic equality, personal and cultural freedom, and intellectual and scientific enlightenment.
The vision of aistocracy and monarchy, of little freedom of press and no social safety net lives on in the heart of conservatives. Now here is their opportunity to package the same old message that we have all been living for these last few years in Sarah Palin last night.
Conservs somehow fear that social equality will destroy the institution of marriage. Palin shrewdly used that fear by parading all her "values" onstage and announcing after 20 years and 5 kids that her husband was still her "guy". Whoo hoo. Let's see if she makes it 11 more like I have with my guy. Of course, a ton of money like most Americans give away in corporate welfare helps to be able to afford raising a special needs child and four others. The corporate media can't wait to shine their light on Cinderella right now. Wow, it's a long hard stumble from the top to the bottom and let's see if this clip has any truth at all. It's a dirty, dirty world baby and these economic elites will always fuel fear that anyone who champions the poor and downtrodden and the environment and all that liberal crap should be sent to the guillotine.

I would suggest that talk of "a devious Republican strategy," might be giving credit to where no credit is due.

If she is booted off the ticket it will stand clearly as an example of McCain's rash and bad judgement.

As far as trolls, well, yes they do exist. Paid operatives to do blogs exist. Paid operatives to make phone calls exist. Paid operatives to write press releases exists.

Sometimes these people are called: staff, or public relations officials and they may be up front and identify themselves or they may be pretending to be otherwise.

There are also people who do "dirtry tricks," "black ops," or whatever.

Here's a picture from the http://www. IsraelForum.com page where a member ...

I would suggest that talk of "a devious Republican strategy," might be giving credit to where no credit is due.

If she is booted off the ticket it will stand clearly as an example of McCain's rash and bad judgement.

As far as trolls, well, yes they do exist. Paid operatives to do blogs exist. Paid operatives to make phone calls exist. Paid operatives to write press releases exists.

Sometimes these people are called: staff, or public relations officials and they may be up front and identify themselves or they may be pretending to be otherwise.

There are also people who do "dirtry tricks," "black ops," or whatever.

Here's a picture from the http://www. IsraelForum.com page where a member is soliciting other members to go over to another forum and "aid against a bunch of twisted, anti-semitic thugs" at http://www.IsoHunt.com

Picture of this, at: http://www.americancitizenstogether.org/ACT/Pictures/PictureA1.jpg

In a way this is quite natural, isn't it? A person advocates an idea. He has friends who advocate the same idea. They team up and go places to spread their idea and argue against those who have a different position.

Of course, it's not always positive or honest. The "twisted, anti-semitic thugs," this person wanted to attack, for example, were people who were complaining about all the Hate Muslims messages that were going unchallenged on that forum at that time. Hate Muslim messages that members of this IsraelForum.com group was posting.

Lemme play devil's advocate Citizen. It is true that Rove's dirty tricks career began rather early. In 1986 he claimed his office had been bugged by the Democrats and both FBI and the police suspected Rove of planting the bug himself. In 1994 a Bush campaign "push poll" asked voters whether they would be "more or less likely to vote for Governor Richards if (they) knew her staff was dominated by lesbians. Fast-forward 6 years. Rove was allegedly behind another push poll that asked potential voters, "Would you be more likely or less likely to vote for John McCain for President if you knew he had fathered an illegitimate black child?" Fast forward to now. Do I think credit could be due ...

Lemme play devil's advocate Citizen. It is true that Rove's dirty tricks career began rather early. In 1986 he claimed his office had been bugged by the Democrats and both FBI and the police suspected Rove of planting the bug himself. In 1994 a Bush campaign "push poll" asked voters whether they would be "more or less likely to vote for Governor Richards if (they) knew her staff was dominated by lesbians. Fast-forward 6 years. Rove was allegedly behind another push poll that asked potential voters, "Would you be more likely or less likely to vote for John McCain for President if you knew he had fathered an illegitimate black child?" Fast forward to now. Do I think credit could be due or should I look at the past and learn? sigh . . .

I think it would depend on how sympathetic she could come out looking and how much "liberal bloggers" could be blamed for it all. But then again, Citizen, distractions are ever so important to this party to keep our minds on gossip instead of the issues because gossip is so much easy to understand and it's self-righteous and sinfully delicious.

I think there might be some corporations that pay people to troll and in turn are paid by others who would benefit from that trolling. The goal would be to publically humiliate or silence the person with a differing political opinion.

Palin has taken her daughter, who is in a very fragile and unfortunate situation, and has decided to humiliate her in front of the entire world, in order to advance her own political career.

Here is a young woman of 17, who has to face her friends, fellow students and neighbours in a condition that most girls of her age would rather keep hidden for as long as possible. 17 is a very vulnerable age. They are not, for the most part, ready to be wives and parents. I am not saying she should hide in shame; far from it. But she is facing a very personal and sensitive situation, and the last thing, one would think a mother would want for her child, would be to hold her up as an example to the w...

Palin has taken her daughter, who is in a very fragile and unfortunate situation, and has decided to humiliate her in front of the entire world, in order to advance her own political career.

Here is a young woman of 17, who has to face her friends, fellow students and neighbours in a condition that most girls of her age would rather keep hidden for as long as possible. 17 is a very vulnerable age. They are not, for the most part, ready to be wives and parents. I am not saying she should hide in shame; far from it. But she is facing a very personal and sensitive situation, and the last thing, one would think a mother would want for her child, would be to hold her up as an example to the world, and embarrass her in order to make a political point. I would think a parent would want to shelter, encourage and support their child and not put her on public display.

And remember, Ms. Palin says her daughter's choice to keep the child is her own. But in her politics, the governor refuses to permit other women and girls facing a similar situation to exercise their own choice. She does not even believe in abortion in the case of rape or incest. Is that not sick?

She brags how she fights corruption, and yet accepted unlimited campaign dollars from Ted Stevens, the now indicted senator from Alaska. She says she killed the bridge to nowhere, except that until she realized it was polling badly, she fought like a tiger to get it. There are just so many examples of why this woman is a total phony, and a mean-spirited phony at that. A phony who would humiliate her own flesh and blood daughter to further her career. And she claims she believes in family values? What the hell kind of values are they in her case?

In the western world, the age of puberty has been creeping downward (the current average for girls is 12, attributed to better nutrition and health care) while the legal parameters (marriagable age, age of consent, age of majority) have been moving upwards. In the past, one's children were a labor asset, put to work as early as possible. It was only in the 20th century that high school education became the norm and college became typical, thus extending the tempestuous period known as adolescence.

It wasn't until the 18th century that the age of consent in England was raised (yes, raised) to 13.

It's interesting to note that while Levi Johnson has knocked up Bristol Palin and is going to...

In the western world, the age of puberty has been creeping downward (the current average for girls is 12, attributed to better nutrition and health care) while the legal parameters (marriagable age, age of consent, age of majority) have been moving upwards. In the past, one's children were a labor asset, put to work as early as possible. It was only in the 20th century that high school education became the norm and college became typical, thus extending the tempestuous period known as adolescence.

It wasn't until the 18th century that the age of consent in England was raised (yes, raised) to 13.

It's interesting to note that while Levi Johnson has knocked up Bristol Palin and is going to marry her, but if he had a picture of her naked he'd be busted for kiddie porn.

It's an interesting clip, debbyski, about Palin being selected as a "a "trojan horse" target for vocal political firebrands to have a veritable field day... and your later comment about deliberately wanting to distract people from the issue.

The rest of the comments after that, I believe, were about the distraction you feared.

RE: Your mention of Karl Rove, I wouldn't give him any credit at all; He's violated criminal laws, refusing to even show up when subpoenaed by Congress to testify about the accusations and growing evidence that he used the Justice Dept. to hire only pro-Bush lawyers and used this DOJ to prosecute Bush opponents and to avoid prosecutions of Bush friends.

Just refusi...

It's an interesting clip, debbyski, about Palin being selected as a "a "trojan horse" target for vocal political firebrands to have a veritable field day... and your later comment about deliberately wanting to distract people from the issue.

The rest of the comments after that, I believe, were about the distraction you feared.

RE: Your mention of Karl Rove, I wouldn't give him any credit at all; He's violated criminal laws, refusing to even show up when subpoenaed by Congress to testify about the accusations and growing evidence that he used the Justice Dept. to hire only pro-Bush lawyers and used this DOJ to prosecute Bush opponents and to avoid prosecutions of Bush friends.

Just refusing to answer a subpoena is a crime.

But with claims and executive privilage and making legal appeals to the courts this won't be deal with until long after the elections.

But while I might give credit to an opponent for fighting a good fight I personally despise people who try to hide in the shadows and spread messages of hate and division, no matter how "skilled," they might be at this.

Besides your good point about DISTRACTIONS there is also the tactic of just IGNORING people, like you'd think that if a 1,000 people are marching in the street and 250 get arrested in violent confrontations with the police (like what happen yesterday), this would be news.

Or you'd think that if our basic rights of free speech are hemmed in by requiring protesters to enter fenced in zones (cattle pens) more than a mile away from the convention centers -- this might be news.

Or you'd think that if over 10,000 people peacefully assembled and members of student groups, unions, Native Americans, Immigration groups, Palestinian groups, Iraq War veterans, and all give fine speeches and thoughtful points to consider that one second of this would at least be mentioned on the news.

But no. DISTRACT. IGNORE. TRIVIALIZE. I heard more about 10,000 balloons at the RNC than 10,000 protesters.

Vote Obama