My g/f who has been a nanny for a dozen years or so, would proabably agree with most of that... When they ask, she talks openly (to a point) with the kids she nannies, about thier bodies, and how they work, etc. The parents are very aware of this and agree with her (currently both parents are doctors). Kids who are aware of theire bodies and thier differences with adults, other kids, etc, and know what is appropriate & when, tend to grow up much healthier, and less ignorant of themsleves and others. There is less curiosity at later stages of life which may lead to innappropriate behaviour, sexual repression, etc.

I think the void of knowledge that many american/canadian parents place th...

My g/f who has been a nanny for a dozen years or so, would proabably agree with most of that... When they ask, she talks openly (to a point) with the kids she nannies, about thier bodies, and how they work, etc. The parents are very aware of this and agree with her (currently both parents are doctors). Kids who are aware of theire bodies and thier differences with adults, other kids, etc, and know what is appropriate & when, tend to grow up much healthier, and less ignorant of themsleves and others. There is less curiosity at later stages of life which may lead to innappropriate behaviour, sexual repression, etc.

I think the void of knowledge that many american/canadian parents place thier kids in is very unhealthy. They get self awareness and sexual heath confused with physical/intimate sexuality. I think that fear is rediculous.

Our kids will know about thier bodies and those of others, they will know what is appropriate to do in public and what is for private. I belive that will make them much healthier individuals, mentally, physically & socially.

Ah.. this "not-problem" is something that happens all the time in kindergarten & daycare. Its better to address it now and in a healthy and educational manner than to tell the kids what they are doing is wrong & bad and evil.

You send your kids to be educated, not so you can pick and choose what they are educated about. As society has shown us repeatedly, we really can't rely on the majority of parents to deal with these issues properly at home. Many parents just don't know how to deal with these questions and inquiries, many themselves were told at a young age to never touch themselves and that it is wrong and dirty. Other parents are working two jobs or have their hands full and don't...

Ah.. this "not-problem" is something that happens all the time in kindergarten & daycare. Its better to address it now and in a healthy and educational manner than to tell the kids what they are doing is wrong & bad and evil.

You send your kids to be educated, not so you can pick and choose what they are educated about. As society has shown us repeatedly, we really can't rely on the majority of parents to deal with these issues properly at home. Many parents just don't know how to deal with these questions and inquiries, many themselves were told at a young age to never touch themselves and that it is wrong and dirty. Other parents are working two jobs or have their hands full and don't notice/have time for the child's questions, other just don't care or are too caught up in their own lives.

Yes, I agree that you should teach them to figure out things on their own, to think for themselves, but give them guidelines, let them know they can come & talk to you (or another professional) when they have questions. But you can't tell them that certain topic are off limits. The just makes them want ot find out more. Kids push limits. They see how far they can go, what they can get away with, especially at that age and younger.

This is my opinion, and I'm not a professional in the field, however, I've spoken at much length with my girlfriend and other in the field of childcare. I've also read a fair bit (in preparation for becoming a father!!! 5 months!!). So take what I say with a grain of salt. I do believe I'm on the right track at least

But you can't tell them that certain topic are off limits

Cat, I see what you're saying and I'm in agreement with you. But if this guy is saying that we should 'encourage' kids at such young age to explore their bodies then he is plain and simply wrong. Kids at that age do not care about the mysteries of sexual attractions, so we shouldn't be encouraging them in free thinking, but if this guy is saying that we shouldn't stop them from exploring their bodies, then I'm all for it. However, the line must be drawn at certain age because each child is different and they don't all learn things at the same age.

So the bottom line is that this guy is talking about things (based on ...

But you can't tell them that certain topic are off limits

Cat, I see what you're saying and I'm in agreement with you. But if this guy is saying that we should 'encourage' kids at such young age to explore their bodies then he is plain and simply wrong. Kids at that age do not care about the mysteries of sexual attractions, so we shouldn't be encouraging them in free thinking, but if this guy is saying that we shouldn't stop them from exploring their bodies, then I'm all for it. However, the line must be drawn at certain age because each child is different and they don't all learn things at the same age.

So the bottom line is that this guy is talking about things (based on how this article sounds) which could probably happen when we colonize some other planet down hundred or so years later. It ain't going to happen just yet unless you're in Sweden or Norway.

arifsali said:

Kids at that age do not care about the mysteries of sexual attractions, so we shouldn't be encouraging them in free thinking

I don't think that's what he's getting at. I don't think any child psychologist/educator/etc would ever condone early sexual education (in the sense of teach kids about sexual attraction, pleasure, etc.) What I think he is getting at (and what I was trying to get at) was that you should encourage kids who are curious about their parts and the parts of their friends to know the differences... ie: "Johnny has a Penis and a scrotum because he is a boy. Susie has a Vagina, because she is a girl." and so on... explaining the differ...

arifsali said:

Kids at that age do not care about the mysteries of sexual attractions, so we shouldn't be encouraging them in free thinking

I don't think that's what he's getting at. I don't think any child psychologist/educator/etc would ever condone early sexual education (in the sense of teach kids about sexual attraction, pleasure, etc.) What I think he is getting at (and what I was trying to get at) was that you should encourage kids who are curious about their parts and the parts of their friends to know the differences... ie: "Johnny has a Penis and a scrotum because he is a boy. Susie has a Vagina, because she is a girl." and so on... explaining the differences and why (to a point, no body would expect kids to learn about intercourse, etc, nor would that be emotionally healthy IMO) helps kids to understand and then they are less curious.

The same goes for teaching kids about masturbation. Kids don't need to know much more than yes, it makes them feel good, no, its not evil or wrong, and yes, it something you do in private, by your self, not in public. Anyone who has been around kids enough will attest that they can't keep their own hands out of their pants. They will rub themselves and against other objects. They don't know its inappropriate to do that in public unless you tell them. But making them ashamed of it is a negative. Just because you tell them its wrong (and its not, IMO, when done in private) doesn't make the urge go away. In fact I believe it intensifies it because now they are more aware of it.

I'm rambling on and probably over analyzing and explaining :|

I completely agree that this is NOT something, IMO, that needs to be brought up as part of a class (ie: "today class we are going to learn about masturbation"), but when a educator, parent, etc sees something happening, then they should step in and educate the child about what is appropriate/not and answer any reasonable question they can.

Yes/No?

Keep that stuff in Scandinavian countries where they like shit like that.
If a kid of mine in g.d. daycare was exposed to some "progressive" approach where the teacher is involved, and he/she will HAVE TO be, in the children masturbating, playing doctor, exploring,touching, and feeling each other's bodies I'd press charges, sue him and the school, maybe going to jail myself on assault charges.
How typical to go to extremes so the opposition view can be said to be intolerant, rigid, or "whatever"-phobic.
B.S.!
Of course there should be a better approach regarding sexuality in raising kids, and obviously it's the repression that causes such frustration, abuses, etc.
That doesn't mean you do cr...

Keep that stuff in Scandinavian countries where they like shit like that.
If a kid of mine in g.d. daycare was exposed to some "progressive" approach where the teacher is involved, and he/she will HAVE TO be, in the children masturbating, playing doctor, exploring,touching, and feeling each other's bodies I'd press charges, sue him and the school, maybe going to jail myself on assault charges.
How typical to go to extremes so the opposition view can be said to be intolerant, rigid, or "whatever"-phobic.
B.S.!
Of course there should be a better approach regarding sexuality in raising kids, and obviously it's the repression that causes such frustration, abuses, etc.
That doesn't mean you do crap like this. That's plain sick. And then the logical initial response of Karin Ståhl Woldseth thinking it was a joke at first MUST, of course, clearly be called conservative. A member of the Progress Party, on the Family & Culture Committee and she would be intimidated ? For speaking out against it as not a good idea?

Typical Davboz comment...

Maybe you should read it again. As we have put in our comments, we don't belive he was saying that the school should teach kids to masturbate, touch eachother, etc. He was saying (IMO, from what I read) that kids do this and they should be tought when it is appropriate and where (ie: alone in your room, etc, not in public). The comment about playing doctor, was that that is a healthy, normal thing for kids to do as they grow and explore thier bodies and those of thier peers.

Oh. And she is conservative. Do a search on her.

It's not really that "progressive" of an approach, it's a commen sense apporach that I've heard of many, many child care workers take.

F...

Typical Davboz comment...

Maybe you should read it again. As we have put in our comments, we don't belive he was saying that the school should teach kids to masturbate, touch eachother, etc. He was saying (IMO, from what I read) that kids do this and they should be tought when it is appropriate and where (ie: alone in your room, etc, not in public). The comment about playing doctor, was that that is a healthy, normal thing for kids to do as they grow and explore thier bodies and those of thier peers.

Oh. And she is conservative. Do a search on her.

It's not really that "progressive" of an approach, it's a commen sense apporach that I've heard of many, many child care workers take.

FYI: It people with reactions like yours that make education so damned hard for educators. You deem tha tyou should cotrol everything you child sees, hears, does. Its people like you (IMO) that go over the edge when the school tries to teach kids what the majority of parents fail to do.

Interesting how you mention that bit about calling you intolerant right after you went offa bout how you'de press charges, sue, maybe go to jail for assult. Gee I wonder why we label you

Emphasis mine:

children should be allowed to express their own sexuality at day care centers.

Children, she said, should be able "to look at each other and examine each other's bodies. They can play doctor, play mother and father, dance naked and masturbate.

I disagree TCW. I believe she means exactly that: children should be allowed to express themselves sexually (included examining each other and masturbating) while at the daycare (and in front of others). (just not while eating).

Can you explain why you read it otherwise? (thanks!)

TCW said:

He was saying (IMO, from what I read) that kids do this and they should
be tought when...

read more»

Emphasis mine:

children should be allowed to express their own sexuality at day care centers.

Children, she said, should be able "to look at each other and examine each other's bodies. They can play doctor, play mother and father, dance naked and masturbate.

I disagree TCW. I believe she means exactly that: children should be allowed to express themselves sexually (included examining each other and masturbating) while at the daycare (and in front of others). (just not while eating).

Can you explain why you read it otherwise? (thanks!)

TCW said:

He was saying (IMO, from what I read) that kids do this and they should
be tought when it is appropriate and where (ie: alone in your room,
etc, not in public).

I really don't read the article this way.

Nor can they be allowed to pressure other children into doing things they don't want to

These sentence reads, to me, that children should not be pressured in school, and not more generally in life, per se.

I really don't read the article this way.

Yes, but you are reading an article, with exceprts. Not a report, written by the person themselves. So you have to sit back and analyse... I stated what I *think* they meant. I Cannot kno wfor sure byt the 2 or 3 lines that was written there. People are often mis-quoted. or thier quotes are taken out of context by the educator.

That's why through my posts I put "IMO". I'm analysing what I read and extrapolating what I belive they meant. I combine those 2 or 3 sentances with other conversations I have has with child care workers and educators.

I would be very, very suprised to learn the she actually DID mean they (children)...

I really don't read the article this way.

Yes, but you are reading an article, with exceprts. Not a report, written by the person themselves. So you have to sit back and analyse... I stated what I *think* they meant. I Cannot kno wfor sure byt the 2 or 3 lines that was written there. People are often mis-quoted. or thier quotes are taken out of context by the educator.

That's why through my posts I put "IMO". I'm analysing what I read and extrapolating what I belive they meant. I combine those 2 or 3 sentances with other conversations I have has with child care workers and educators.

I would be very, very suprised to learn the she actually DID mean they (children) should be allowed to masturbate in class. I don't know a single educator who would agree with this. That's why I feel teh quote is miss represented. Until someone (or myslef) can find an origonal article from that educator, We won't know.

Your opinion may be that they were saying these things. I think your wrong. We can agree to disagree