abailart said:

To some extent one's deeper beliefs can only be discovered by reflection and examination of how one actually lives one's life...

And here are echoes of Socrates, with the famous "the unexamined life is not worth living" line.

@chestnut501
Well that was essentially close to my point. Literally for ages now philosophers have argued whether absolute truth even exists independent of our awareness of it, and even if so, whether it's attainable. They will continue to argue for ages more...you just have to use your own reasoning. Balance that with the first step to knowledge being awareness of ignorance. So for now, I equate finding truth to varying degrees of certa...

abailart said:

To some extent one's deeper beliefs can only be discovered by reflection and examination of how one actually lives one's life...

And here are echoes of Socrates, with the famous "the unexamined life is not worth living" line.

@chestnut501
Well that was essentially close to my point. Literally for ages now philosophers have argued whether absolute truth even exists independent of our awareness of it, and even if so, whether it's attainable. They will continue to argue for ages more...you just have to use your own reasoning. Balance that with the first step to knowledge being awareness of ignorance. So for now, I equate finding truth to varying degrees of certainty, and perhaps I'll approach the truth...perhaps not, as presumably I'm not immune to the subject of the clip.

Good discussion, that's what I like about Clipmarks! When I look at the arguments used, the reflections on human nature and the acceptance (?) of the possibility that we might not find truth, well, for me that's a gigantic relief. There's still hope (we don't end up killing eachother & the world for nothing).

I myself consider 'truth' to be nothing more than a word. A word to describe a theoretical situation in which there is zero doubt about all things and all things are known. It's clear to me that I don't know truth as long as I learn, hear, read, feel, create, eat or do new things.

I did my share of philosophic thinking, starting from 'the beginning', going through hell (Wittgenstein, ...

Good discussion, that's what I like about Clipmarks! When I look at the arguments used, the reflections on human nature and the acceptance (?) of the possibility that we might not find truth, well, for me that's a gigantic relief. There's still hope (we don't end up killing eachother & the world for nothing).

I myself consider 'truth' to be nothing more than a word. A word to describe a theoretical situation in which there is zero doubt about all things and all things are known. It's clear to me that I don't know truth as long as I learn, hear, read, feel, create, eat or do new things.

I did my share of philosophic thinking, starting from 'the beginning', going through hell (Wittgenstein, Schoppenhauer) and ending with my own conclusion (most important thing to do), but really, believe me, none will ever show you the truth. Not even you.
(Which is a fine example of the ongoing contradiction of such statements). I stick with Socrates' method. And Sherlock Holmes way of deduction. It works fine. At least it gives more insight in complex matter.

In conclusion, I THINK that using the word 'truth' is just verbally transmitting the concept of something greater than yourself, something that you assume to be universal, hence worth looking for. The trouble begins when one starts to claim that life makes no sense without it. Despite the fact they live.

sometimes it is more productive to actually look at the plain facts, as to what is a blatant lie, than parrot the seemingly profound and obscure thoughts of some philosophy professor or text book.

When we see the media lying or omitting the truth to cover up for a corrupt administration, and we know the actual facts, it is quite apparent to a normal thinking individual that it is a lie. We don't have to dig down deep in our souls to find the philosophical answers to rationalize the situation.

If you want to believe a lie bad enough, you can , make yourself believe it but if you want to ask hard questions, you can find the truth.

I think the biggest problem we have in our society today ...

sometimes it is more productive to actually look at the plain facts, as to what is a blatant lie, than parrot the seemingly profound and obscure thoughts of some philosophy professor or text book.

When we see the media lying or omitting the truth to cover up for a corrupt administration, and we know the actual facts, it is quite apparent to a normal thinking individual that it is a lie. We don't have to dig down deep in our souls to find the philosophical answers to rationalize the situation.

If you want to believe a lie bad enough, you can , make yourself believe it but if you want to ask hard questions, you can find the truth.

I think the biggest problem we have in our society today is that we have too many followers who will believe whatever they are told, by the ones who have deceived them, and not enough people who actually think for themselves.

You shall know the truth and the truth will set you free!

Quoting Nietzsche sheds a lot of light on your point of view.
It is no longer surprising to me that intelligent speaking people have been influenced by Marxist doctrines, anyone educated to a high degree in this country has been heavily influenced by the radical professors who were hippies in the sixties and never got over it.
Bill Ayers and Ward Churchill comes to mind, and of course, Obama was also an instructor, corrupting young minds.
It is just so sad that in order to get a good education here in the United States you also have to be brainwashed.

The government schools give our children the foundation for further education in the Marxist teaching and revised history. It is sad that th...

Quoting Nietzsche sheds a lot of light on your point of view.
It is no longer surprising to me that intelligent speaking people have been influenced by Marxist doctrines, anyone educated to a high degree in this country has been heavily influenced by the radical professors who were hippies in the sixties and never got over it.
Bill Ayers and Ward Churchill comes to mind, and of course, Obama was also an instructor, corrupting young minds.
It is just so sad that in order to get a good education here in the United States you also have to be brainwashed.

The government schools give our children the foundation for further education in the Marxist teaching and revised history. It is sad that the greatest nation on the earth has succumbed to this government control over our educational system.

I have a much better understanding of reality than most College graduates, and my highest documented education level was the eight grade.
I have never been influenced by those who use deception, and manipulation of the masses, to achieve their perceived goal of a utopia in a Marxist regime.

It also seems strange to me that an educated person can't just look around and see the Marxist regimes in the world, and think that they would like to emulate them.

It is funny that you try to explain to the rest of us what causes people to be blind followers, and you yourself are heavily influenced by the thing you warn us about.

Deductive reasoning always wins out over inductive reason, especially when the general conclusion are flawed in the latter.

Think for yourself!!

Sometimes the truth is so large and complex that we can't perceive it. Can a spider perceive the truth of an elephant?

@mcsmithblack: Truth may be unperceived, but does that make the perceived a lie? If we are only able to perceive lies, than we must be part of it, don't you think?

Nietzsche said, "and if we are deceived, are we not also deceivers?" Who grasps what he means there? There is a will to deception where one looks to another for the truth, to receive another's wisdom unquestionably. The difference between knowledge and experience, dogma and gnosis.

@chiggles: Truth may be unquestioned, and still be a lie.

Think for yourself!!

@smithb...

Sometimes the truth is so large and complex that we can't perceive it. Can a spider perceive the truth of an elephant?

@mcsmithblack: Truth may be unperceived, but does that make the perceived a lie? If we are only able to perceive lies, than we must be part of it, don't you think?

Nietzsche said, "and if we are deceived, are we not also deceivers?" Who grasps what he means there? There is a will to deception where one looks to another for the truth, to receive another's wisdom unquestionably. The difference between knowledge and experience, dogma and gnosis.

@chiggles: Truth may be unquestioned, and still be a lie.

Think for yourself!!

@smithbidet:
Also means: Learn to think. No one is born complete, life wise and fully equiped for all things to come. A great deal of our life we learn by copying our parents, teachers, writers, sport coaches, comic heroes, pop idols, et cetera. We all do and that's nothing to be ashamed for. But hopefully we also get to understand that we are unique and have to define our own path to become more equipped for the things we want to do. For that purpose it might be useful to let go some of the things we've learned in the past, to make room for our own thoughts and memories. In both ways of learning we heavily depend on others to give feedback and new input. Of course this means we have to accept differences. There's no point in comparing, especially if you want to respect your own and other people's uniqueness.

If a philosophy does not require respect, courtesy and inclusivity of other world views and experiences and non-adherents, if it does not live, breathe and evolve in order to accommodate changing realities then, in my experience, it will not work in the real world.

@mcsmithblack: I fear you are right. Thanks for reminding.