@Jorjor
So true! Yet that doesn't seem to mean much when you're main purpose is to defend your dogma.

God = Morality
God = Goodness

Atheism = No belief in God, therefore
Atheist = Immoral
Atheist Bad

Of course this logic is deeply flawed on many levels yet that doesn't prevent a majority of people to subscribe to it. Remember, most people will not vote for an atheist because atheists posses no moral code.

It is true that statistically, atheists represent a mere fraction of the prison population according to their percentage of the population. But, in the eyes of theists, they don't have daddy god looking over their shoulder telling them what's right and wrong so their bound to choose ...

@Jorjor
So true! Yet that doesn't seem to mean much when you're main purpose is to defend your dogma.

God = Morality
God = Goodness

Atheism = No belief in God, therefore
Atheist = Immoral
Atheist Bad

Of course this logic is deeply flawed on many levels yet that doesn't prevent a majority of people to subscribe to it. Remember, most people will not vote for an atheist because atheists posses no moral code.

It is true that statistically, atheists represent a mere fraction of the prison population according to their percentage of the population. But, in the eyes of theists, they don't have daddy god looking over their shoulder telling them what's right and wrong so their bound to choose what's wrong every time. Such is the thinking of much of the country.

Atl is quite correct. Religious ignorance is rampant here in the states, and I'm not talking about their beliefs. I'm talking about their actual knowledge of anything from science to their own beliefs.

Upon revealing my disbelief in gods I'm often asked what it was that turned me to Satan, or why I hate god, or why I wanted to go to hell. I guess the point that I DON'T BELIEVE IN THAT STUFF just escapes them. I don't worship what is fantasy, I do not hate something that doesn't exist, and why fear hell if it is not real? Quite a few people don't really even know what atheism means, they truly think it means devil worship.

I would say 90% of my discussions/arguments on religion lead to some...

Atl is quite correct. Religious ignorance is rampant here in the states, and I'm not talking about their beliefs. I'm talking about their actual knowledge of anything from science to their own beliefs.

Upon revealing my disbelief in gods I'm often asked what it was that turned me to Satan, or why I hate god, or why I wanted to go to hell. I guess the point that I DON'T BELIEVE IN THAT STUFF just escapes them. I don't worship what is fantasy, I do not hate something that doesn't exist, and why fear hell if it is not real? Quite a few people don't really even know what atheism means, they truly think it means devil worship.

I would say 90% of my discussions/arguments on religion lead to someone saying that atheism is without morals, a lack in a belief in god is akin to an anarchist (or even anti-christ) or that the only reason I speak out against religion is because I'm angry at god.

It is truly hypicritical to say that putting up billboards that oppose beliefs in something that is not proven is wrong while religion manages to get its grimy fingers into all aspects of modern life.

I live in the southeastern U.S. and have found that silence is golden
regarding my non-belief in the dominant cultural mythology.

We all react ith the world according to our own personality and inclinations.

It is almost inconceivable for these folks that you could be a good person and not be christian.

Personally, I find that deeply offensive. Pretending to be something you're not is not in my nature. Of course, prudence figures into my reaction to others words and deeds. I find that my physical safety is important so I'm not about to call some drunk redneck a fool for choosing to believe in what I consider superstition and magic. Although, I've had quite pr...

I live in the southeastern U.S. and have found that silence is golden
regarding my non-belief in the dominant cultural mythology.

We all react ith the world according to our own personality and inclinations.

It is almost inconceivable for these folks that you could be a good person and not be christian.

Personally, I find that deeply offensive. Pretending to be something you're not is not in my nature. Of course, prudence figures into my reaction to others words and deeds. I find that my physical safety is important so I'm not about to call some drunk redneck a fool for choosing to believe in what I consider superstition and magic. Although, I've had quite productive conversations with "rednecks" when they're sober. You can't always tell everything about a person by his level of education or their interests in leisure activities.

Rarely do I "zip my lip" when the subject of religion comes up. I've found that by speaking up there is the chance that a bit of learning could occur. It depends on how it's handled.

Here, on CM, the situation is somewhat different, somewhat freer. Much comes from the anonymity of posting under a pseudonym. Also this is a public forum and as such there is an understanding that it is open to all opinions. You enter at your own risk. I like that.

Lastly, as my sign intimates, (ATLliberal - Atlanta) I also live in the SE and am quite aware of the climate here. I grew up during the 50's so am well aware of the social repercussions of being an atheist. I choose to live an open life. To be honest, the subject of religion rarely comes up in day to day communication.

On the other hand, atheists are regularly accused of being without morals or ethics by religious believers and that's OK???

In the US the main consensus is that atheists are immoral, unethical and not to be trusted.

I cannot think of a single time that I have heard these accusations. Are you sure you know what you talking about? Ethics and morals are more or less universal. It is not the possession, it is the source and substance behind the source. If an atheist's ethics tell him it is wrong to steal, then how does the atheist pass on his individual opinion to become a worldwide value? More importantly, what makes the atheist so sure it is wrong to steal? If the atheist s...

On the other hand, atheists are regularly accused of being without morals or ethics by religious believers and that's OK???

In the US the main consensus is that atheists are immoral, unethical and not to be trusted.

I cannot think of a single time that I have heard these accusations. Are you sure you know what you talking about? Ethics and morals are more or less universal. It is not the possession, it is the source and substance behind the source. If an atheist's ethics tell him it is wrong to steal, then how does the atheist pass on his individual opinion to become a worldwide value? More importantly, what makes the atheist so sure it is wrong to steal? If the atheist says, "because humanity decided it is wrong, then the atheist does not understand ethics or morals, but that does not mean the atheist does not possess ethics or morals.

I cannot think of a single time that I have heard these accusations.

So? I've found it's quite common to hear theists claim that 1) all ethics and morality come from God, therefore 2) since atheists don't believe in God they have no true ethics or morality.

Ethics and morals are more or less universal.

In some instances that's true but there are wide ranging cultural differences that suggest that that is not universally true.

it is the source and substance behind the source.

Which echos the theists claim that all morality comes from God.

More importantly, what makes the atheist so sure it is wrong to steal?

Most atheists I know ...

I cannot think of a single time that I have heard these accusations.

So? I've found it's quite common to hear theists claim that 1) all ethics and morality come from God, therefore 2) since atheists don't believe in God they have no true ethics or morality.

Ethics and morals are more or less universal.

In some instances that's true but there are wide ranging cultural differences that suggest that that is not universally true.

it is the source and substance behind the source.

Which echos the theists claim that all morality comes from God.

More importantly, what makes the atheist so sure it is wrong to steal?

Most atheists I know adhere to the principle of altruism contained in the Golden Rule.

I cannot think of a single time that I have heard these accusations.

Perhaps never hearing them is because you are making? I'm just say'n ...

Ethics and morals are more or less universal.

Not according to theists. Their claim is that morality and ethical responsibility comes from the grace of god. That without god telling them it is wrong then there would be no obligation NOT to steal.

then how does the atheist pass on his individual opinion to become a worldwide value?

By saying "if you dont' steal from me then I won't steal from you and we are both happy". The other person being of sound mind (hopefully) will recognize the benefits of mutual co...

I cannot think of a single time that I have heard these accusations.

Perhaps never hearing them is because you are making? I'm just say'n ...

Ethics and morals are more or less universal.

Not according to theists. Their claim is that morality and ethical responsibility comes from the grace of god. That without god telling them it is wrong then there would be no obligation NOT to steal.

then how does the atheist pass on his individual opinion to become a worldwide value?

By saying "if you dont' steal from me then I won't steal from you and we are both happy". The other person being of sound mind (hopefully) will recognize the benefits of mutual cooperation. No big sky daddy saying "DONT STEAL OR I SHALL SMITE YOU IN HELL" required.

More importantly, what makes the atheist so sure it is wrong to steal?

Consequences. Atheists show a higher ethical propensity by monitoring themselves because they know it is wrong and will only invite retaliation or theft back at them. No stealing maintains the status quo. The theist, on the other hand, does not steal because they choose to believe they are always being watched.

By abandoning the agreement not to steal then it would invite a state of anarchy on ones possessions.

I'd rather have someone by my side who naturally feels stealing is bad than someone who doesn't steal because of an artificial command.

From "You Know What They Say", an exposition of popular beliefs by Alfie Kohn, page 129:

Religious People Are More Altruistic

In a society that teaches us to associate morality with religion, it is easy to assume that a strong relationship exists between piety and pity, between god and good.“...After all, the sacred texts of Judaism and Christianity, like those of most supernatural belief systems, contain reminders to be compassionate and charitable.

These familiar injunctions...have not been sufficient to prevent the commission of a range of horrors under the banner of one religion or another, from the Hebrews who utterly destroyed] the men, women and children, of every city" as they inv...

From "You Know What They Say", an exposition of popular beliefs by Alfie Kohn, page 129:

Religious People Are More Altruistic

In a society that teaches us to associate morality with religion, it is easy to assume that a strong relationship exists between piety and pity, between god and good.“...After all, the sacred texts of Judaism and Christianity, like those of most supernatural belief systems, contain reminders to be compassionate and charitable.

These familiar injunctions...have not been sufficient to prevent the commission of a range of horrors under the banner of one religion or another, from the Hebrews who utterly destroyed] the men, women and children, of every city" as they invaded in Canaan (Deut 3:6) to the barbaric Christian Crusaders to fanatics killing in Allah's name. Less dramatically there are also exists a "long parade of findings demonstrating that churchgoers are more intolerant of ethnic minorities than nonattenders"

A careful study of about 2,000 episcopalian in th 1950'sturned up “no discernible relationship between involvement [in the Church] and charitable acts.”“ In a questionnaire based study of altruism involving several hundred male college students in 1960, there was only a slight correlation between altruism and belief in god and none at all between altruism and attendance of religious services. In interviews with randomly selected adults in 1965, “the irreligious: [were] nearly as frequently rated as being a good Samaritan, having love and compassion for their fellow man and being humble as the most devout and religious of our group studied.”

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Two experiments with undergraduates during the 1970s found essentially the. same thing: Min one, the students who believed in the bible’s accuracy were no more likely to come to the aid of someone in the next room who appeared to have fallen off a ladder. In the other study, students who were classified as being “born again Christians”, conventionally religious, nonreligious or atheists. There was no statistically significant difference among these groups to volunteer time with retarded children or to resist temptation to cheat on a test (There was only one group in which a majority did not cheat: the atheists).

In 1981, a researcher who surveyed more th...

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Two experiments with undergraduates during the 1970s found essentially the. same thing: Min one, the students who believed in the bible’s accuracy were no more likely to come to the aid of someone in the next room who appeared to have fallen off a ladder. In the other study, students who were classified as being “born again Christians”, conventionally religious, nonreligious or atheists. There was no statistically significant difference among these groups to volunteer time with retarded children or to resist temptation to cheat on a test (There was only one group in which a majority did not cheat: the atheists).

In 1981, a researcher who surveyed more than 700 people from different neighbourhoods in a medium-size city expected to find that religious people were especially sociable, helpful to their neighbours and likely to participate in neighbourhood organizations. Instead, she reported, religious involvement was virtually unrelated to these activities Finally, an ambitious new study of people who risked their lives to rescue Jews from the Nazis found that “rescuers did not differ significantly for bystanders or all non-rescuers with respect to their religious identification, religious education and their own religiosity or that of their parents.

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Notes & References: Churchgoers’ intolerance: G.W. Allport & J.M. Ross “Personal Religious Orientation & Prejudice,” Journal of Personality and Social Psychology (JPSP). (5:432, 1967). Episcopalians: C.Y. Glock, B.B. Ringer & E.R. Babbie, “To Comfort & To Challenge, (Berkeley, U of Calif. Press, 1967, 182-83). College Males: R.W. Frederichs, “Altar Versus Ego” “American Sociological Review (25:496-508, 1960). The 1965 interviews: V.B. Cline & J.M. Richards Jr., “A Factor Analytic Study of Religious Belief and Behaviors”, JPSP (1:577, 1965) Biblical Literalists: L.V. Annis “Emergency Helping & Religious Behavior”, Psychological Reports, (39:151-58). “Vol...

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Notes & References: Churchgoers’ intolerance: G.W. Allport & J.M. Ross “Personal Religious Orientation & Prejudice,” Journal of Personality and Social Psychology (JPSP). (5:432, 1967). Episcopalians: C.Y. Glock, B.B. Ringer & E.R. Babbie, “To Comfort & To Challenge, (Berkeley, U of Calif. Press, 1967, 182-83). College Males: R.W. Frederichs, “Altar Versus Ego” “American Sociological Review (25:496-508, 1960). The 1965 interviews: V.B. Cline & J.M. Richards Jr., “A Factor Analytic Study of Religious Belief and Behaviors”, JPSP (1:577, 1965) Biblical Literalists: L.V. Annis “Emergency Helping & Religious Behavior”, Psychological Reports, (39:151-58). “Volunteering & Cheating”: R.E. Smith, G. Wheeler and E. Diewner “Faith Without Works”, Journal of Applied Social Psychology” (5:320-30, 1975). Neighborhood involvement: S Georgianna, “Is a religious Neighborhood a Good Neighborhood?” Humboldt Journal of Social Relations (11:1-16, 1984). Rescuers: S.P. Oliner & P.M. Oliner, “The Altruistic Personality (New York: Free Press, 1988, p.156).