 kinokonoko says: The article goes off in another direction, but I think this quote nicely describes the box of mirrors people with religious faith lock themselves into. Let the games begin. Interesting that the article is textured by a Daoist/Buddhist approach to 'Enlightenment'. This approach, fairly obviously, has little time for capsules of concepts. The truth that can be expressed (in words) is not the truth (to paraphrase the opening of Dao De Ching). Anyone who is on the tragic plane of never knowing more than their cognitive, discursive, word-hewn, conceptual, linguistic intellect will live in a 'box of mirrors' not only vis a vis faith but also politics, love, iraq, Scrabble, relationships. If that makes them mentally ill, well there are a lot of mentally ill people about. Actually, there are. Such minds do not see things as they are, rather preferring to hold beliefs.Yes, indeed!! Otherwise we would not overcome the unbelievable illness of historical circumstances! I am not unmindful that some of you have come here out of great trials and tribulations. Some of you have come fresh from narrow cells. Some of you have come from areas where your quest for freedom left you battered by the storms of persecution and staggered by the winds of police brutality. You have been the veterans of creative suffering. Continue to work with the faith that unearned suffering is redemptive. That speech, unfortunately, is just a speech. Try this exercise: substitute the word "determination" everywhere the word "faith" appears. Continue to work with the determination that unearned suffering is redemptive. (By the way, I take issue with the validity of this statement. If suffering were redemptive, then why help anyone, when obviously, being poor, oppressed, etc is good for them.) You can do the same with other positive-buzzwords like 'knowledge', 'truth', etc. This is the truth with which I return to the South. With this knowledge we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With... (cont) That is probably why religion was created -- as a way for assholes to control and exploit morons. You have to clip something better than naked opinion. There are no facts here, just empty philosophy, alot of faith in self as the greatest and highest being, something we call arrogance with frightening consequences. Is that not demonstrated in the people in power today, who claim to be, but could not possibly be Christians? In order to refute Christian faith (not modern corrupt churches) you have to disprove the life, words, works, miracles, crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus himself, the object of faith. The Jews were not able to refute his miracles, or even teachings by their scribes. So they became angry and killed him, because he threatened their power over the peop... "The fool says in his heart there is no God". People who beleive in God love to use it as their basis to look down on others. Read "The Pegan Christ" by Tom Harpur. (PhD theologean and former Protestant priest) Its documents all the incidences where the stories of Christ (birth, 3 wise men, fishes and loaves, crusifixion, virgin birth, resurrection, etc) all have origins in pre-Christian pegan religions. This book disproves Christianity and the life of Christ. Read the book if you dare to live in the real world. If you prefer the conceptual hall of mirrors that you were brainwashed into, just stay the way you are. You have to clip something better than naked opinion.See, there you are very wrong. People may clip whatever they want to. Period. You are wrong. In order to refute Christian faith (not modern corrupt churches) you have to disprove the life, words, works, miracles, crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus himself, the object of faith. The Jews were not able to refute his miracles, or even teachings by their scribes.Wrong again. Many have refuted all of those things, even the exsistance of this Jesus. I don't think I like you. You sound like an idiot. A wrong one. "faith" as a rhetorical device to stand in for "positivity". You could substitute that word [...] and maintain the messageThat's but an interesting proposal. Let's give it a go: Positivity is a mental illness.Pretty a rubbish. Let's try the antonym: Negativity is a mental illness. <start sarcasm> Nice...a theory that can be defended by automatically labeling any opponent as being mentally ill. Great start to discourse. <end sarcasm> I have a couple of problems with the logic of the clipping. I would argue if one expects others to live up the "rules" of one's faith, but doesn't do so oneself, that individual is not living his/her professed faith and doesn't actually believe it. (sorry, bad grammar) Also, I suspect the closing sentence of the clip: "Notable in the mentally ill is that they seek control of others but have little or no control over themselves" does great disservice to a significant number of the mentally ill. @nimiller. Agree with your last sentence: to be mentally ill does not entail the associated moral deficits which the article makes. In fact, to make such a sweeping statement about 'the mentally ill' suggests a less than enlightened understanding of complex concepts. Continuing the substitution strategy perhaps the phrase 'morally ill' may be more appropriate since so many 'mentally healthy' people appear to manifest a 'morally sick' way of thinking (and in my experience almost all the 'mentally ill' people I have had close contact with have been very healthy morally). Whether or not 'morally sick' people have 'spiritual illness' is way beyond my scope. Johanna Your comment proves, rather than disproves, my point about how religious people are bound by words. Thanks for proving my point. One of the problems of religious-minded people is that they to not have good reasoning or rational analysis skills -- their ability to pursuade logicially, or even understanding something in a systematic way, always gives way to emotional, reactionary arguement. This is because they reflexively learn to shut down their deep thinking ability when it gets too close to the heart of their religious delusion. This is why the religious folk in America have been so easy to manipulate and control by the Bush/Cheney and the corporations that control them. kinokonoko Your ability to persuade logically and to understand in a systematic way is as much a lucid role model as your open-mindedness and dispassion in the discourse. I wonder whether the world became a better one, if all the people, the religious and the non-religious, were like you. Kinokonoko i agree with you.i like your mind. |
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