So, by your comment, we can conclude that it has been the kids instigating these sex acts. By your comment, this is the only thing that you can conclude... or is it?

It more rational to conclude is that indicates that because kids have been taught what sex is, they now are reporting when they are being molested. The rise in these numbers are directly due to the fact they have been educated on what sex is and that it is wrong for adults to have sex with them and they should report it when it happens to them. So, because of sex education, these kid are now reporting sex abuse and because of this kids are safer. This is the reason that he wants to have sex education in kindergarten, to t...

So, by your comment, we can conclude that it has been the kids instigating these sex acts. By your comment, this is the only thing that you can conclude... or is it?

It more rational to conclude is that indicates that because kids have been taught what sex is, they now are reporting when they are being molested. The rise in these numbers are directly due to the fact they have been educated on what sex is and that it is wrong for adults to have sex with them and they should report it when it happens to them. So, because of sex education, these kid are now reporting sex abuse and because of this kids are safer. This is the reason that he wants to have sex education in kindergarten, to teach them what it is so that the know if someone is trying to do it with them.

It is interesting how the greatest number of people who seem to be molesting children are the people of religion. It is no wonder they don't want the kids taught about sex because it makes it harder for them to get away with having sex with them.

"It more rational to conclude is that indicates that because kids have been taught what sex is, they now are reporting when they are being molested."

Please tell me you are joking...are you actually asserting that when moral restraint was encouraged and sexual promiscuity condemned there was MORE molestation?

Are you serious?

I think you are...

"...and that it is wrong for adults to have sex with them"

Again...do you REALLY think that before indoctrination of modern sexual mores children did not know that having sex with adults was wrong? I am truly incredulous that you are making these claims.

What is more interesting, though, is your use of the word "wrong." On what basis do you ju...

"It more rational to conclude is that indicates that because kids have been taught what sex is, they now are reporting when they are being molested."

Please tell me you are joking...are you actually asserting that when moral restraint was encouraged and sexual promiscuity condemned there was MORE molestation?

Are you serious?

I think you are...

"...and that it is wrong for adults to have sex with them"

Again...do you REALLY think that before indoctrination of modern sexual mores children did not know that having sex with adults was wrong? I am truly incredulous that you are making these claims.

What is more interesting, though, is your use of the word "wrong." On what basis do you judge such conduct "wrong?" By what moral standard do you judge?

"...so that they know if someone is trying to do it with them. "

Ladies, please excuse what follows, and preferably don't even keep reading...

ezsparky--Do you really think that teaching Johnny how to put on a condom, how to get and give oral sex, that his penis goes into a vagina (or nowadays another man or woman's anus or mouth), and how to masturbate is going to teach him that when a man touches his scrotum, something ain't right? Are you freakin' kidding me?

There are lots of things we can perhaps disagree on reasonably, but if you REALLY believe this, you live in a different universe than I do and I hope you never have any say over anything that has to do with my family AT ALL. Perhaps the feeling is mutual, and that's fine. So be it. But if you really mean these things, that's just about as deluded as it gets

thunderscot- The problem with your argument is you are sujesting outlandishly the things one would tell the younger kids. My first sex-ed in school was in 5th grade and we never even came close to discussing the kind of things you sugest would be told the the young kids. Even in my higschool health class this type of explisit talk never took plays. So, your agument against talking to young kids does not hold water. You simply tell a yound kid that no person should ever touch you in their privet areas. The need to go into the things you stated are not needed. Anyone of a sound mind would know that you would never need or want to tell kids such things. Come on, I would exspect a better ...

thunderscot- The problem with your argument is you are sujesting outlandishly the things one would tell the younger kids. My first sex-ed in school was in 5th grade and we never even came close to discussing the kind of things you sugest would be told the the young kids. Even in my higschool health class this type of explisit talk never took plays. So, your agument against talking to young kids does not hold water. You simply tell a yound kid that no person should ever touch you in their privet areas. The need to go into the things you stated are not needed. Anyone of a sound mind would know that you would never need or want to tell kids such things. Come on, I would exspect a better agrument other then an emotional and obsured attempt to such things as what you tried.

I still stand by my first statements.

It is clear to see by you emotional response that your religion has skewed much of your view of sex such that it has created an irrational emotional aversion to the subject of sex. I recognize this for I grew up in a very dogmatic Christian environment and experienced first hand the absurdities of religion's attitudes on the subject of sex.

Sex is not evil and should not be treated as such. It is just a biological process the every living animal takes part in. It is a beautiful thing. Talking about sex is not evil or a sin. Why and how the religions of this world have demonized sex in their minds I will never understand. Why it should be considered a subject not to be talked about to kids makes no sense and is not biblically backed up directly. If you can find a biblical passage that instructs you to not tell kids about sex, I would like to see it. I have never come across one. I have not seen passages that tell you that the subject of sex is a perverse in of itself. The bible will tell you that doing some sex acts are perverse but it does not follow that the discussions about sex are perverse.

ezsparky:
It is interesting how the greatest number of people who seem to be molesting children are the people of religion.

Whether you stand by this or not, I've often heard this elsewhere with conviction. But I would put forth that it is just how you phrased it...people who seem to be. And that a personal rejection of theology could influence biased perceptions of character or intent, or at the least selective memory of headlines. I would expect to find similar percentages of pedophiles from almost any specified demographic that involves kids; like teachers, school janitors, Boy Scout leaders, or ultimately just the "guy next door". And not that there's anything ...

ezsparky:
It is interesting how the greatest number of people who seem to be molesting children are the people of religion.

Whether you stand by this or not, I've often heard this elsewhere with conviction. But I would put forth that it is just how you phrased it...people who seem to be. And that a personal rejection of theology could influence biased perceptions of character or intent, or at the least selective memory of headlines. I would expect to find similar percentages of pedophiles from almost any specified demographic that involves kids; like teachers, school janitors, Boy Scout leaders, or ultimately just the "guy next door". And not that there's anything inherrent in religion causing it anymore than other groups. Admittedly I'm not aware of proof of this either. Perhaps this is my own biased perspective, but seems like common sense to me.

It is clear to see by you emotional response that your religion has
skewed much of your view of sex such that it has created an irrational
emotional aversion to the subject of sex.

This is untrue as my previous post on the subject should have made fairly clear.

A casual read of the Bible shows that the matter is discussed rather frankly, albeit with appropriate discretion. Victorian sensibilities should not be confused with biblical Christianity, which is my religion.

...the absurdities of religion's attitudes on the subject of sex.

I'm curious--what about Christianity's "attitude" (I take you to mean "teaching") on the subject of sex do you find absurd? Tha...

It is clear to see by you emotional response that your religion has
skewed much of your view of sex such that it has created an irrational
emotional aversion to the subject of sex.

This is untrue as my previous post on the subject should have made fairly clear.

A casual read of the Bible shows that the matter is discussed rather frankly, albeit with appropriate discretion. Victorian sensibilities should not be confused with biblical Christianity, which is my religion.

...the absurdities of religion's attitudes on the subject of sex.

I'm curious--what about Christianity's "attitude" (I take you to mean "teaching") on the subject of sex do you find absurd? That it doesn't conform itself to your proclivities?

Sex is not evil and should not be treated as such.

No argument there...that is the Christian position.

It is just a biological process...

That's pretty sad. I will admit that this is not the Christian attitude towards sex, and I'm sorry that it is your's.

If it's "just" a biological process, why is it so important to so many leftists to identify themselves with it?

every living animal takes part in

Not true. My dog, Pebbles, never had sex her entire 17 years of life. Same for monks, unless they're having their way with young boys...but, hey, it's "just" natural, anyway, so what's with all the attitude about it?

It is a beautiful thing.

How can you say this if it's "just" a biological process? Do you think wasp's mating "is a beautiful thing?" (I don't mean white anglo-saxon protestants...). Even if you could assent to some beauty in the natural order, do you really mean that marital intercourse is beautiful in the way that dogs humping is beautiful?

If you do, then I will agree, my religion's attitude about sex is very different than your religion's. Mine says that the way of a husband and wife is one of the things "too wonderful for me [to understand]."

I

Talking about sex is not evil or a sin.

Agreed. The Bible talks about it quite frankly, so talking about it cannot be sin.

the religions of this world have demonized sex

I don't defend false religion, but Christianity certainly has not demonized sex.

If you can find a biblical passage that instructs you to not tell kids
about sex, I would like to see it. I have never come across one.

"...Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea." Matthew 18v6.

Of course, as we are all aware, as you phrase it, there...

Talking about sex is not evil or a sin.

Agreed. The Bible talks about it quite frankly, so talking about it cannot be sin.

the religions of this world have demonized sex

I don't defend false religion, but Christianity certainly has not demonized sex.

If you can find a biblical passage that instructs you to not tell kids
about sex, I would like to see it. I have never come across one.

"...Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea." Matthew 18v6.

Of course, as we are all aware, as you phrase it, there is no problem. However, the problem comes in 1) the content of what is being told to the children, and 2) who has the authority to do the telling.

While my sample in a previous post may have contained some hyperbole for effect, the reality is that it's not far off, despite your protestations of innocence.

Furthermore, there is nothing at all that any government school (or private school, for that matter) needs to say to any child about the subject.

If, as you claim, all that is being proposed is to say, "Don't let anyone touch your private parts," then you have yet to explain 1) Why this is a topic of presidential interest, 2) Why a program that will steal more money from Americans is needed to accomplish it and most importantly 3) What justifies someone besides the parent or guardian talking to the child about private matters?

Of course, we all know that the sex ed pushers have an agenda that has nothing to do with protecting children, but has everything to do with sucking them into the moral cesspool that enslaves so many others who clamor for celebration and funding to soften the consequences of their perversions. The earlier, the better.

I have not seen passages that tell you that the subject of sex is a perverse in of itself.

There are many passages which address speaking what is proper and wholesome and fitting. Of course, speaking truth is also stressed as is using our speech to instruct and encourage righteousness.

Similarly, the Bible teaches the danger of teaching, since it carries with it an accountability for God if it errs, or if it causes the hearers to err. It goes so far as to say, "Let not many of you aspire to be teachers, for as such you incur a stricter judgment."

These passages, combined with those which talk about there being things not fit to mention in company, not appropriate, the ...

I have not seen passages that tell you that the subject of sex is a perverse in of itself.

There are many passages which address speaking what is proper and wholesome and fitting. Of course, speaking truth is also stressed as is using our speech to instruct and encourage righteousness.

Similarly, the Bible teaches the danger of teaching, since it carries with it an accountability for God if it errs, or if it causes the hearers to err. It goes so far as to say, "Let not many of you aspire to be teachers, for as such you incur a stricter judgment."

These passages, combined with those which talk about there being things not fit to mention in company, not appropriate, the danger and severe consequence of sexual sin, or things not helpful to the hearer even though it might be true establish clearly the principle that caution and a great deal of sensitivity is required when discussing sexual issues with children.

The government is neither competent nor authorized 1) to do this at all or 2) to steal people's money to do what it ought not be doing in the first place.

I have not, and Christianity does not teach, that parents should not teach their children the Bible, and since the Bible teaches about sex, it must be appropriate for a parent to teach his child about sex, in some manner to some extent.

I guarandamntee you, though, that teaching a child about sex as the Bible teaches about it is fundamentally NOT what the sex ed pushers want to teach the children.

debbyski said:
Promoting more abstinence education is just doomed for failure.

What?

"Promoting more anti-murder education is doomed to failure."

By this logic, we should only teach what we know everyone will do anyway!

"Children--disobey, disrespect authority, indulge your pleasures as you see fit and always whine about everything being unfair."

Oh, wait...this is the leftist vision of culture! OH, wait! This is the "education" provided in the government indoctrination camps ("public schools" as they are sometimes called.

On the contrary, we teach what is true and right because it is true and right. If we do so, we are successful.

And, by the way, many more people will enjoy sex...

debbyski said:
Promoting more abstinence education is just doomed for failure.

What?

"Promoting more anti-murder education is doomed to failure."

By this logic, we should only teach what we know everyone will do anyway!

"Children--disobey, disrespect authority, indulge your pleasures as you see fit and always whine about everything being unfair."

Oh, wait...this is the leftist vision of culture! OH, wait! This is the "education" provided in the government indoctrination camps ("public schools" as they are sometimes called.

On the contrary, we teach what is true and right because it is true and right. If we do so, we are successful.

And, by the way, many more people will enjoy sex as God intended for them to, which is the best sex possible.