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kmcolofollowshare
3-10-2009 11:02 PM
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kmcolo says:
Once again the IPCC has been shown to be wrong. And once again they are 'wrong' on the side of being too conservative about the impact of climate change.
21 Comments   | Add a Comment
3-11-2009 10:41 AM
Oortcloud
But haven't you heard? The anti-warmers are saying that the earth has been cooling for the past decade! /sarcasm
3-14-2009 12:49 AM
amgumen
Sea rise 'to exceed projections'
This is a projection.

the earth has been cooling for the past decade!
This is what already happened.
3-14-2009 12:57 AM
willhelm
Inconvenient clarity that.
3-14-2009 1:57 AM
Oortcloud
This is a projection.
No, the expected level of rise was a projection. The reality is that the water is rising faster than the projections.
This is what already happened
Sorry. As much as you people want to deny the climate change, it IS happening. There have been no lower temperatures in the last decade. The evidence, recordings, and facts show an increase that is speeding up.

The USGS points out the main areas of concern are the Antarctic and Greenland ice sheets. Increase of ocean levels from the melting of all other sources pale in comparison (half a meter vs 80 meters)

Today Greenland's ice is melting 3 times fas...
3-14-2009 4:34 PM
amgumen
As much as you people want to deny the climate change, it IS happening.
It is pointlessly to argue with people who cannot keep logic in their arguments. To me, as a geologist, to deny the climate change is the same as to deny rotation of the earth or existence of tides. I posted hundreds of clips about climate change, not about climate invariability. So talk into the climate change someone else.
3-14-2009 6:09 PM
willhelm
It is like beating ones head against the wall. They offer absolutely ZERO proof of anthropogenic climate change, then believe they are brilliant and keen observers because they can see "climate change".
3-14-2009 8:50 PM
kmcolo
Oortcloud, it is wasted effort. We can spin these wheels over and over but the same result comes out. They have their opinion and we have the bulk of scientific evidence.
3-14-2009 10:17 PM
amgumen
"I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives."
-Leo Tolstoy
3-14-2009 10:20 PM
kmcolo
Yes amgumen, essentially the problem faced by those denying the evidence of anthropogenic climate change. They have so committed themselves to its falsehood that even the possibility of it being true cannot be held.
3-15-2009 12:33 AM
amgumen
essentially the problem faced by those denying the evidence of anthropogenic climate change.
I have to repeat what I just wrote: It is pointlessly to argue with people who cannot keep logic in their arguments. Your way of discussion is still demagogic, which is why you "spin these wheels over and over but the same result comes out".

I never denied evidence of anthropogenic climate change, as you claims. You could find a number of my clips on anthropogenic heat islands. Anthropogenic climate change over vast urban territories is too apparent to claim the opposite. And causes for the change are studied well enough: direct heat releases, change in hydrology and hydrogeology, cha...
3-15-2009 2:27 AM
kmcolo
amgumen, I did not name you, I did not direct that at you. It is a positive element that you recognize the potential of anthropogenic effects on the climate system. There are still some that cannot accept that. I have not followed your posts closely so I do not know "where you stand" within the labyrinth of alternative theories of those calling themselves climate skeptics.
That said I have never said, never, that the CO2 alone theory is proven beyond doubt (in fact it is held now in climate studies that present warming is _not_ greenhouse gases alone). I have said that the balance of evidence suggests that most warming is attributable to greenhouse gases. I too have my problems with the...
3-15-2009 4:02 PM
amgumen
It is a positive element that you recognize the potential of anthropogenic effects on the climate system.
Give me one example who does not.
3-16-2009 12:40 AM
kmcolo
I think anyone who has followed this subject online to any depth as seen plenty of them. More interesting though is what do you think the impact of anthropogenic CO2 is at present?
3-16-2009 12:50 AM
Oortcloud
Give me one example who does not.
Surely you jest? I would say the vast majority of people I talk to who deny global warming/climate change claim that mankind cannot effect the Earth's climate. They push that what is going on now is merely a cycle. They often claim that the Earth is COOLING contrary to all scientific data.

kmcolo is absolutely right - simply recognizing the potential of anthropogenic effects is very important.
3-16-2009 6:16 PM
amgumen
what do you think the impact of anthropogenic CO2 is at present
The impact on global climate is next to zero in comparison with interplanetary and cosmic forces that still drive (and have always driven) the climate. That is just consistent with a small content of CO2 in the atmosphere compared with the water vapor amount. Also, so far, all the empirical attempts failed to reveal discernible GH-effect of enhanced CO2 in temperature.

I think anyone who has followed this subject online to any depth as seen plenty of them
It makes me think that you never try to understand their arguments. But again, this anthropogenic impact too small to consider it at the ...
3-16-2009 8:26 PM
kmcolo
Right. Well those that are still interested in the subject and one place where the "action is" on climate science can get some good background at the wikipedia article on climate sensitivity:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_sensitivity

Climate sensitivity being the amount global average temperature changes with a doubling of the pre-industrial concentration of CO2 (at equilibrium).
3-16-2009 8:55 PM
willhelm
More on the scam behind climate sensitivity, which no one really knows and can not measure to any degree of reliable accuracy, given the infinite feedbacks.
get some good background at the wikipedia article on climate sensitivity:
It is absolutely amazing that I plead for scientific evidence of anthropogenic global warming and one of the first attempts made is a link to FREAKIN' WIKIPEDIA!!! Geez! Sign of the times..
3-16-2009 9:35 PM
amgumen
As I can see, you kmcolo are still at the same level of comprehension of natural science as you were two years ago. There is no relation to science where you addressed me to. Those models are designed to get sought result. They cannot do other than ignore water vapor and clouds. and the rest of natural forces. The same with observations. How is it possible to extract the CO2 climate sensitivity from the contaminated temperature data with the accuracy of measurement hardly enough to detect warming itself? Shame upon such kind of research.
3-16-2009 9:53 PM
amgumen
a link to FREAKIN' WIKIPEDIA
Actually, referring me there, kmcolo referred to the IPCC (where else?) that proved to use obsolete data, doctored reconstructions, and invalid models. Was it the hockey stick that they used to deduct co2-sensitivity and to name all the fake Consensus?
3-17-2009 1:37 PM
kmcolo
Now that the "skeptics" have again been reduced to a series of ad hominems I think we can move on.
3-17-2009 8:25 PM
willhelm
HAHA.
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