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6-10-2008 5:37 PM395 views
masbury says:
She writes as one with a pre-existing condition, asking for straight answers from the straight talker. Worth noting is the fact that McCain would be virtually un-insurable were he not on the government's insurance plan.
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6-10-2008 6:38 PM
sillysam
Let's see:
Prices increases due to inflation or interruptions in supply or increase in demand. Prices do not increase due to competition. Proof: You open a lemonade stand and charge a dollar. I will open a lemonade stand and charge 75 cents. Let's see who stays in business longer.

If you start requiring companies to sell insurance to everyone despite their condition the cost of insurance will go up for EVERYONE.

Why shouldn't companies charge more for people with pre-existing conditions? We charge more for insurance on bad drivers? Is that fair?
6-10-2008 8:13 PM
Kauaiguy
Of the two candidates, McCain would rely more on the private sector and market forces to produce changes in the health care system. He says he would free up the market to allow private insurers to compete with each other to create plans with premiums we could afford.

On the other hand, McCain is proposing to change health insurance from a defined benefit to a defined contribution with workers receiving a government subsidy for health insurance - $2,500 for individuals, $5,000 for a family.

Second, his proposal for less regulation of the insurance industry means that industry will be offering grossly inadequate insurance products to people in order to compete on price. The insurers can't af...
6-10-2008 10:48 PM
sillysam
Again, we under appreciate the power of the free market. When there is increased competition the competitors offer more not less. to continue the lemonade analogy...

Masbury and I are now offering lemonade at the same price. We are currently using the same product. How will Masbury get people to buy his lemonade over mine? Will he start using offering less of it. Will he try to increase his profits by leaving out the sugar? No. Consumers will demand the sugar. The only way he will be able to differentiate himself in a market with more than one competitor and homogeneous products is to offer something extra.

The same will be true of health care. If you and I are offering competin...
6-11-2008 12:20 AM
masbury
The Des Moines Register ran an editorial a month or two ago saying people who get their insurance through their employers should be scared to death of McCain's plan. For as Kauaiguy points out, likelihood of employer-based plans being terminated is increased, and most of us in our 50s or 60s now have what would be pre-existing conditions if we were shopping for new coverage.

Why shouldn't companies charge more for people with pre-existing
conditions? We charge more for insurance on bad drivers? Is that fair?
Quite a difference in culpability between bad drivers and someone with breast cancer: one was irresponsible, the other just got sick.

Look, our problem is that increasin...
6-11-2008 4:32 PM
Kauaiguy
Excellent points masbury,

In our current health care for profit system, premium money left over because of the relatively low costs of insuring healthy people is used to compensate sales reps., executive salaries, and Wall Street rather than pay for the care of sick. In a system of multiple private insurers, sicker people can't find affordable coverage because insurers try to make money by appealing to good risks and avoiding bad ones.

In a system with multiple insurers, each must rely on the size of its client base to defray the cost of claims. More competition only increases the number of insurers whose smaller client bases have commensurately less available capital to defray these cos...
6-11-2008 4:58 PM
masbury
Kauaiguy - thanks - I hadn't considered, till your comment, the shrinking-pool aspect of increasing the number of insurers. Good insight!

I think the gravest obstacle to sensible healthcare is simply dogmatism. The case that keeps getting presented is not "how do we provide the best healthcare for all of us at the least cost?" (facts on that abound the world around) but "how do we make sure healthcare fits our philosophical demands?" I am amazed that the fact that helpless people sicken and die is not the burning issue; it takes a back seat compared to the pursuit of greater free-market purity.
6-11-2008 6:40 PM
Kauaiguy
Hi masbury,

I've benefited from a brother with a PhD in economics and a cousin who once worked for Blue Shield and now owns his own small health insurance brokerage.

The intuition of people concerning market forces is generally correct. That is to say, they understand how markets are supposed to work. Understanding how they actually work is a different matter altogether.. The same can be said of people's understanding of political science.

My brother's PhD was on a branch of economics called Public Choice Theory. You can find an introduction to it online.
http://tinyurl.com/5h4npa
6-11-2008 10:03 PM
masbury
Thanks! Intriguing!
6-15-2008 12:30 AM
oldephartte
The only "free market" ( bullshit alert every time you hear that term BTW ) for a person ignorant of their condition/treatment shopping to meet conditions of their insurance in an emergency situation, often with diminished capacity, is the freedom to get ripped off under stress of saving one's ass.
"Insurers", on the other hand, do best by disallowing everything possible to maximize profit : including dumping poor risks.
At the same time, service providers need massive billing departments to negotiate the plethora of plans and "suppliers".
That's not a system : it's a disaster !
6-15-2008 1:39 AM
masbury
Good points, o.p.! Think of the HUGE amount of money that the industry spends on self promotion (e.g, Viva Viagra!) - utterly unnecessary, except for the same reasons you list. As Jane Bryant Quinn has written,
Medicare’s overhead is just 1.5 percent, compared with 13 to 16 percent in the private sector.
And everybody thinks government is inefficient!
6-15-2008 1:40 AM
masbury
6-15-2008 12:41 PM
oldephartte
Everyone ? That's propaganda talking nonsense to push private piracy into the public purse. "Conventional Wisdom" from the likes of Rush ? C'mon : you're not a Faux News fan.
Opit is an acronym, Monte. I played with spelling, subbing 'ph' for 'f' and adding archaic 'e' and so ended up with a blog where everybody complained about the spelling of the name ( not too seriously. Dad 2059 delighted in giving me grief over it) . O lde P hartte I n T raining.
John ( done with training ? ) as Oldephartte
6-15-2008 12:45 PM
oldephartte
P.S. You do have my new site I trust.
http://my.opera.com/oldephartte/blog/
6-16-2008 2:26 PM
masbury
Thanks - glad to have it!
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