 masbury says: Stop using anything that's government supported. Send the money back. Put your money where your mouth is. Put up or shut up. Good on you, masbury! Actually a lot of people would, if that was an available option. Your argument, cute at best, isn't meaningful, since it isn't a viable option. We still need to pay taxes regardless of which school we send our children. I would bet you that if you let the US population determine how much they want to spend where - you'd see a lot more people on the side of Sean Hannity than yours/Obama's tax-to-no-end approach. As for your encouragement to have Sean 'shut up' - why don't you show him an example of how that works first? What? You have some '1st Amendment Rights' you scream? Well, so does Sean! You know masbury, if you went to live in Cuba or North Korea for a year or more, and I mean really live like them, not some American tourist and then come back and blow smoke about the merits of socialism - you'd at least have some credibility in doing so. Living here, not having a clue what it's like to live under true socialism, and defending it is total lunacy, you simply show your utter ignorance on the subject. You may be a bleeding heart liberal, but you have no idea what you're talking about in defending socialism, a failed, miserable experiment that hasn't produced any kind of decent life for people anywhere in the world it was tried... and tried... and tried again. RS, first, "put up or shut up" is a common expression; I certainly didn't mean it as an insult. Second, it is not my intent to defend socialism. I merely want to point out that this is, perhaps, not the great turning point that some make it out to be. In my opinion, it is not socialism at all; socialism involves government ownership of the means of production - which only happens in a tiny fraction of American business. I know of no one elected to the Senate or the H of R who is a socialist - all are dedicated capitalists who believe in different degrees of government intervention in the management of our capitalist system. I really didn't mean it to be the affront that was perceived. My apologies. masbury is just pointing out the ignorant way that conservatives are using the socialist argument. They throw the word around like we are on the verge of communism because they really have nothing else to bitch about. From our current problems people like this use the fear and confusion of people and make unfounded socialism type remarks to garner more support. It's their ongoing attempts to make anything left of their teachings to look bad - an attempt at making an "us" and "them" environment for finger pointing. Don't apologize to this guy masbury. You are right on. These idiots argue against a socialist nation that does not exist and try and imply that anyone that pointing out their und... It's the same argument by the religious when they decry or denounce science and intellectual thinking but happily spread their ignorance through the very technology that was brought about by such thinking. They use the very medicine that is designed through the 'impossible' means of evolution. They use communications from satelites and cell phone technology that was developed from the impossible "big bang" researches. They are blow hards. Hypocritical ones at that. BTW, RS, I'm a pastor. Pastors may opt out of the Social Security system if they have a moral objection to it. But the government tests the sincerity of their objection like this: they must swear, not that they have objections to <i>paying in</i> to Social Security, but that their objection to it is so complete that they would also never <i>receive money from</i> Social Security. Surely a person whose principles are violated by the Stimulus Bill has a moral obligation not to profit from it. Your argument is "simple" and stupid. Of course we need government for roads, bridges and military defense. We just don't need government rewarding people for buying houses they can't afford. I can understand if they lost their job, but many people couldn't afford their house from the day they got their mortgage thanks to > 100% financing and interest only loans etc. I guess I should have bought a McMansion that I couldn't afford and I would be rewarded today with YOUR tax money. Instead I bought a house I can afford and I'm getting screwed paying for everyone else's McMansions. It's not just the poor who irresponsibly bought more house than they can afford. BTW, I rented for many ye... If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck etc. I'm sure you've heard a similar expression, masbury. I fully realize and understand that you were quoting a famous expression, but obviously the concept behind it is to take it seriously, which includes shutting up. As ridiculous and utterly misplaced (let's just continue to call things what they are, i.e. ignorant in terms of making some bologna comments about what I implied or didn't), I do agree with him/her - no apology is necessary. You have your opinion and so do I, we simply voice both, no need for apologies, unless of course we don't mean to say what we say... I certainly mean what I say, I'm assuming the same about you. You, being... Look at what Obama is doing in terms of spending. Look at how many people object and think this will accomplish nothing, yet creates a tremendous deficit. FDR screwed up during the 30s and according to people who have studied the whole affair in detail - prolonged the recovery by 7 years. That's NOT what we should be doing now. Bailing out deadbeats and irresponsible people is a totally faulty approach. A - it favors the irresponsible and B - it spits in the face of those responsible. That's NOT how things should work. When the government takes over whole industries - that's socialism, whether it's convenient for some or not. That's what it is. If you look at places like USSR and Cu... In 1992 Sweden nationalized their collapsing banking system rescuing it and in the end earning a profit for it's taxpayers. Almost all of the European countries, commonly referred to as "socialist" by dimwitted U.S. conservatives, are regarded as superior countries for women to live in according to recent studies. Let's hear it for conservative U.S. greatness!!!!! Futhermore, how many people are upset? When I check it out Obama has a 67% approval rating. What alternate reality universe is it that you live in RS? Please do us a favor and turn off your FAUX Noise channels. Rebubbacans in Congress, BY FAR, have the highest disapproval ratings. People are tired of their obstructionist "do not... The only reason Euro countries are 'regarded' superior is because women get more maternity leave and some other perks. Even back in the old USSR women got to stay for a year at home when they birthed a kid. So, of course that woudl be regarded 'better' for women. You can yawn until your teeth fall out, you still are an imbecile on the subject of socialist countries. Only a moron could live there or at least truly see how screwed up they are and somehow tout that as a better alternative to the US. For the record, I'm NOT asking for anyone's approval, you want to continue with your lunacy - that's your right. "do nothing" is in some cases a better solution than the ridiculous current s... So many words, so little thought. The Global Gender Gap Report measures the size of the gender gap for 130 countries in four critical areas: economic participation and opportunity, health and survival, educational attainment, and political empowerment. The U.S. ranked a poor 27th considering all those who rant that the U.S. leads the world in everything. You weren't even close. Obviously European "socialism" is doing a lot of things correctly. I just attended a dinner party where a gentleman was trying to figure out how he could marry a nice French girl so he could live in France and enjoy, better health care, better educational opportunities, and less sacrificing your entire life to your... So, since you supposedly understand the vast benefits there - what are you doing here? Short enough for ya? And no, I'm NOT 'an expert on everything'. Governments are inherently corrupt and inefficient, therefore it makes no sense to think that they can fix anything economically. Show me one country where that's not the case. If your theory on government spending was true - USSR would've been the best country to live in in the world, hardly the case. Your French marriage story is pretty humorous. Perhaps you should spread it among the illegal trespassers community and they'll go there instead of ruining the economies of South Western states. #1 You have to actually read my comments before you comment on them. Your first question was already answered. Detail is not your strong suit obviously. In 1992 Sweden solved their banking crisis by nationalizing their banks. Once again that was already mentioned. Again you pay no attention to detail. You of all people are the ideologue on this clip. You never, ever, ever, cite any study or proof to substantiate your beliefs. They are only.......your beliefs. Regarding illegal immigrants, a Council Special Report, conducted by Professor Gordon H. Hanson of the University of California, San Diego, for the non-partisan, non-governmental, Council on Foreign Relation, approaches immigration th... Actually, I do pay attention to details, it just depends on the details... Apparently in early 20's we had another recession that was pretty bad and the market took care of the problem within a year. 30's were a totally different story, because of government stepping in with a 'solution'. This one of few times when a war can actually be thanked for saving the day. As for illegals moving on - great. And that study - doesn't sound very credible. Just because an economist says it's the case - certainly doesn't automatically makes it so. After all, if they were all knowing and seeing - we wouldn't be in the mess we're in and they could tell us precisely when we'd be out of it. Nobody, in... No you don't pay attention to detail. You proven that time and time again by not reading people's statements which proves you are an ideologue. You have no interest in what anyone is saying, you're only interest in spreading your propaganda. You're not very smart either. No where did I say illegal immigrants to America are trying to get to France. My point is France draws illegal immigrants because it is a good place to live unlike your ridiculous opinion of France. Those illegals going to France are near to France not from Mexico. If you can't even understand personal economics that most illegals go to the closest opportunity then you can't even begin to be trusted to understand complicate... From the Cato Institute study, Free Trade Bulletin No. 30. As for hospitals, especially emergency rooms, the presence of uninsured, low-skilled workers in a particular area does impose additional costs on hospitals in the form of uncompensated care. There is no evidence, however, that illegal immigration is the principal cause of such costs nationwide. Indeed, low-skilled immigrants tend to underuse health care because they are typically young and relatively healthy.
years. This is well documented. Ok, so how do you account for mass ER closures in Arizona, California to name just 2 as well as New Mexico I believe declaring a state of emergency at one point? That doesn't compute. The fact that Rand Corp. makes a study, financed by who knows who and results of so and so doesn't necessarily reflect the reality on the ground. How do you account for ER closures in those states? What about the impact of illegals on our criminal system, I already raised the issue of law enforcement and their diversion of resources, but what about the costs of incarceration, judicial & other entities involved, and I'm not even counting the human lives lost, which should be a significant factor to normal pe... As for FDR's debacle... here's a book http://www.amazon.com/FDRs-Folly-Roosevelt-Prolonged-Depression/dp/0761501657 and here's UCLA assessment http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depression-5409.aspx And WSJ http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123353276749137485.html and I quote "The main lesson we have learned from the New Deal is that wholesale government intervention can -- and does -- deliver the most unintended of consequences. This was true in the 1930s, when artificially high wages and prices kept us depressed for more than a decade, it was true in the 1970s when price controls were used to combat inflation but just produced shortages. It is true today, when... This debate is already starting to improve you. For once you went to amazon.com and looked through the list of FDR books to find one that supports your view. Bravo! It's a first step. FDR has constantly been a target of the lunatic radical right because his policies created modern America and ensured a roughly 50 dominance by the Democratic party in the Congress. No small wonder people like Rupert Murdoch's (FAUX Noise) Wall Street Journal take any and every opportunity to try and sully his image. Interestingly the book you referenced points a glaring inaccuracy in positions you have taken in these comments. You referred to Hoover's 1920's as a small recession. The reviewers of your book c... This group, Cohen emphasizes, did not work in concert. The liberal Perkins, Wallace and Hopkins often clashed with Douglas, one of the few free-marketers in FDR's court. Moley hovered somewhere in between the two camps. As Cohen shows, the liberals generally prevailed in debates. However, the vital foundation for FDR's New Deal was crafted through a process of rigorous argument within the president's innermost circle rather than ideological consensus.It's amazing, you an immigrant, who came to the greatest nation on the planet, sits there and tells the American populace that they had no clue what they were doing when they voted FDR into office 4 times creating the foundation ... I'm a big fan of the US, but don't flatter yourself - you did NOT defeat fascism, the Russians did. Let's give credit where it's due. You need to do some reading on the subject and see precisely when what occurred. As for your other comments, there are plenty of people who think he screwed up with his tactics. You believe what you will. Great rebuttals and information Bobby. Sage is right about one thing, however, there are plenty of people who think he screwed up. So much so that they are attempting to rewrite history in order to prove it! It's hilarious RS spends all his time bad mouthing mother Soviet Union but he is quick to point out that the largest theater in World War II was the Eastern Front. This is not something that escaped me. RS should also acknowledge that the U.S. provided economic assistance and equipment to the Soviet Union through the land-lease Act while almost single-handed fighting the Pacific theater against Japan. The U.S. provided over $700 Billion in today's dollars, on top of their sons and daughters, in assistance to insure that RS did not have to live under Fascism. So I do think I am aware of what took place during World War II. So once again the point is that RS calls Americans fools for electing... Nobody argues that US had a huge impact and contribution, but it was the Russians who beat Hitler. It's highly debatable if US was able to do anything if once Hitler beat the Russians. The entire continent of Eurasia would've been his. It would be a matter of time until he crossed the ocean. Nobody's disputing the contribution of the US in terms of supplies etc., but when Leningrad was under the multi-year siege - these American contributions weren't helping much. Like I said - you need to read the history of the war and see at what point who stepped in with what resources. I don't see where I called Americans 'fools' for electing FDR. I simply pointed out that there are plenty of peo... If you believe I need to study history then you need to do a little studying yourself. No single country defeated Germany on it's own. What would the Soviet Union been able to do if Great Britain had fallen and could concentrate all it's might on the Eastern Front. Land Lease allowed Britain to survive and maintained a second front. You have no understanding of how large the Land Lease program was. U.S. contribution made no difference? USSR was highly dependent on trains, yet the desperate need to produce weapons meant that only about 92 locomotives were produced in the USSR during the entire war. In this context, the supply of 1,981 US locomotives can be better understood. Likewise, the S... The WSJ article was a reprint of the UCLA study 5 years later, after liberal hater Rupert Murdoch of FAUX Noise had purchased the WSJ. Bravo, your attention to detail is stunning. You know you are truly ridiculous. There isn't anything anybody can do that "does it" for all people. But in the opinion of all the other people in the U.S. besides you, most people are behind his efforts. Feb 22 Gallup poll shows 83% support new government programs to create jobs. 67% support giving aid to state governments in financial need. Of those who actually saw Obama's speech, 88% believe his policies will move the country in the right direction. If there is anyone living in a skewed alternate reality ... Forget about what I know or anyone in the Gallup poll. We'll just see what happens. For the sake of the country and all of its citizens (including myself) - I hope I'm wrong and you're right. The proof is in the pudding - let's see what develops. What we do know already is we're treading in unprecedented waters in terms of deficit and unbelievable amount of spending - there's no argument there I assume. Will this boost the economy to the point of recovery? We shall see. What kind of impact this level of new debt will bring forth? We shall see that as well. As for some of the numbers you mention - they're meaningless for 2 simple reasons - a) Obama can speak (nobody disputes that... ... Hey Dick Cheney shoots with his eyes closed and hit something.....his buddy in the face, who should have reported it to the police. So I'm not worried. Next time let's switch up our debate and instead of talking about FDR let's spend our entire time talking about the Republican, conservative President Hoover who presided over the largest financial collapse in the history of the U.S. (even worse than the incompetent collapse of George W., drunken fratboy, Bush). I'll keep track of how well the rebubbacans do with Rush Limbaugh as their leader. Sometimes you show some intelligence, but that last comment erases all of it completely. We'll leave it at that. Practically everything stated there is both BS and false (although Cheney did shoot his friend, so that's factual, although clearly & completely irrelevant to this conversation, as would Hoover be). Dick Cheney shot a fellow hunter in the face - FACT You can close your eyes shot and hit something - FACT (you chose the analogy) You try and run down Democrats and Liberals without saying anything about the incompetence of conservatives and their historic catastrophic management of the U.S. - FACT Rush Limbaugh has emerged as the face to the message of the current rebubbacan party - FACT , otherwise Michael Steele would not have gotten down on his knees and begged forgiveness from Don Corlione Limbaugh. I'll never worry about your analysis of my mental cognition - FACT Cute, let me know when you pass the age level of 2yrs old and we'll talk again (might want to check on the spelling of certain names you name as well... although 2yr olds don't spell well, so at least you're consistent). Yes, I try to be humorous unlike your blunt ideological attacks on people who use reason and actually back up their arguments with studies, statistics, and facts. When you can get passed your FAUX Noise viewing sessions and "beliefs" check back with us. Nice job, Bush's recession is the longest in post-World War II history and is bringing recession to the rest of the globe. Another stunning achievement for ideological conservatism. Cute, let me know when you pass the age level of 2yrs oldThis sort of personal put-down degrades CM dialog, offers nothing to readers, and raises the temperature without contributing to the quality. Can we drop the cheap digs? How even-handed of you masbury. Sorry for hijacking your clip. I'm still wondering if Sean Hannity drove to work on a highway built by the government using collective funds for the collective good of the people, or, did he hack his own trail through the jungle. |
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