there will be no will among our citizenry and especially among our military personnel to deal with Iran, Russia, Al Quaeda wherever it pops up, Korea, China, or the blood bath that will ensue all over the ME and Europe.

you are assuming (incorrectly i might add) that the US's place in the world is as it's police force. You are wrong.

The world will not fall apart if the US backs out of Iraq.. i think in the short term Iraq's non-militant citizens will suffer greatly when the struggle for who will take power happens. And it will. But overall it will correct itself and go back to probably very likely what was there before (a dictator, who rules with an iron fist)... it'll...

there will be no will among our citizenry and especially among our military personnel to deal with Iran, Russia, Al Quaeda wherever it pops up, Korea, China, or the blood bath that will ensue all over the ME and Europe.

you are assuming (incorrectly i might add) that the US's place in the world is as it's police force. You are wrong.

The world will not fall apart if the US backs out of Iraq.. i think in the short term Iraq's non-militant citizens will suffer greatly when the struggle for who will take power happens. And it will. But overall it will correct itself and go back to probably very likely what was there before (a dictator, who rules with an iron fist)... it'll take years probably.. but it will happen.

Russia is not going to be a threat. N. Korea.. is not going to be a serious threat.. if they are, China or Japan will deal with them (with S. Korea).

China is not a threat. They are (if you take a moment to look at their recent history) becoming more and more capitalistic every day. The only threat to America is that they WILL emerge as the major economic power int eh world. But it won't turn into a military situation unless the US (or someone else) makes it one.

You are paranoid. But then again, you (jaftla) are blocking me (for whatever reason...) so unless someone else quotes me you'll never see this

here ya go cat whisperer!

TheCatWhisperer

there will be no will among our citizenry and especially among our military personnel to deal with Iran, Russia, Al Quaeda wherever it pops up, Korea, China, or the blood bath that will ensue all over the ME and Europe.

you are assuming (incorrectly i might add) that the US's place in the world is as it's police force. You are wrong.

The world will not fall apart if the US backs out of Iraq.. i think in the short term Iraq's non-militant citizens will suffer greatly when the struggle for who will take power happens. And it will. But overall it will correct itself and go back to probably very likely what was there before (a dictator, who ru...

here ya go cat whisperer!

TheCatWhisperer

there will be no will among our citizenry and especially among our military personnel to deal with Iran, Russia, Al Quaeda wherever it pops up, Korea, China, or the blood bath that will ensue all over the ME and Europe.

you are assuming (incorrectly i might add) that the US's place in the world is as it's police force. You are wrong.

The world will not fall apart if the US backs out of Iraq.. i think in the short term Iraq's non-militant citizens will suffer greatly when the struggle for who will take power happens. And it will. But overall it will correct itself and go back to probably very likely what was there before (a dictator, who rules with an iron fist)... it'll...
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there will be no will among our citizenry and especially among our military personnel to deal with Iran, Russia, Al Quaeda wherever it pops up, Korea, China, or the blood bath that will ensue all over the ME and Europe.

you are assuming (incorrectly i might add) that the US's place in the world is as it's police force. You are wrong.

The world will not fall apart if the US backs out of Iraq.. i think in the short term Iraq's non-militant citizens will suffer greatly when the struggle for who will take power happens. And it will. But overall it will correct itself and go back to probably very likely what was there before (a dictator, who rules with an iron fist)... it'll take years probably.. but it will happen.

Russia is not going to be a threat. N. Korea.. is not going to be a serious threat.. if they are, China or Japan will deal with them (with S. Korea).

China is not a threat. They are (if you take a moment to look at their recent history) becoming more and more capitalistic every day. The only threat to America is that they WILL emerge as the major economic power int eh world. But it won't turn into a military situation unless the US (or someone else) makes it one.

You are paranoid. But then again, you (jaftla) are bloc

If the US sets a *date* for the pullout in Iraq, there will immediately be a bloodbath unlike anything we've witnessed before; mainly because of the internet. The infer structures in their towns, the pipelines that our tax dollars helped rebuild will be destroyed by an *all out* civil war and the invasion of Iran into Iraq. I believe the intentions of this Democratically controlled Congress has encouraged Iran to take the British hostages and for the Saudi king to speak negatively about our "occupation". They know we are leaving, if the President doesn't veto this.

e- we can call this "Bush's war" til doomsday, but that is truly a simplistic statement. The real issue and monumental pro...

If the US sets a *date* for the pullout in Iraq, there will immediately be a bloodbath unlike anything we've witnessed before; mainly because of the internet. The infer structures in their towns, the pipelines that our tax dollars helped rebuild will be destroyed by an *all out* civil war and the invasion of Iran into Iraq. I believe the intentions of this Democratically controlled Congress has encouraged Iran to take the British hostages and for the Saudi king to speak negatively about our "occupation". They know we are leaving, if the President doesn't veto this.

e- we can call this "Bush's war" til doomsday, but that is truly a simplistic statement. The real issue and monumental problem concerns how to deal with Iran, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Al-Qaeda NOW. They've been our enemies for a very, very long time. This didn't just happen because GW Bush is president. To me, (and it's only my opinion), the divisiveness and all out assault on this Administration over the last 4 yrs. has encouraged and emboldened them. Our "friends" in the ME will never trust our word or our commitments again and what about all those poor innocent Muslims who believed us when we promised to make Iraq a safer place for them to live?

Better get that missile shield technology on the fast-track.

off topic @ bitdrifter:

it had something to do with Cat throwing around the Stupid word.

Hrm.. if you read the comment i used "stupid" in, I'm sure you'd understand why.. . well cause it was. Perhapse I should have used "incomprehensible" instead, but i like to use small effective words.

ontopic @ jaftla (who again won't see this unless it is quoted by someone else): I think you need to explain what you mean by blood bath, because that is a very loose term. A bloodbath could be construed as the mass killing of a few... to the mass killing on thousands. For instance.. the reprisals the other day where one militant faction systematically executed 70 men from the otehr fact...

off topic @ bitdrifter:

it had something to do with Cat throwing around the Stupid word.

Hrm.. if you read the comment i used "stupid" in, I'm sure you'd understand why.. . well cause it was. Perhapse I should have used "incomprehensible" instead, but i like to use small effective words.

ontopic @ jaftla (who again won't see this unless it is quoted by someone else): I think you need to explain what you mean by blood bath, because that is a very loose term. A bloodbath could be construed as the mass killing of a few... to the mass killing on thousands. For instance.. the reprisals the other day where one militant faction systematically executed 70 men from the otehr faction (I can't remember which one off the top of my head) could be seen as a blood bath.

Tell me jaftla, how will it get WORSE? Yes, there will definitely be a temporary increase in violence in Iraq while one faction rises above the others to take power... it may indeed last a few months to a few years even (but it is going to happen whether or not the US its there or not, in fact it lilly will not fully happen until teh US leaves.. and in the meantime they will just fight back and forth).

The region has been in turmoil for HUNDREDS of years. It did not start when the US invaded.. sure, it got worse when they invaded as the US removed the one person who kept Iraq under control (though it was through tyranny and fear). The us leaving is not going to make that worse in teh long run. The rest of the ME isn't going to fall apart...

And for the record, just who are the US's friend in the "ME". Israel? Turkey? (they are actually the Mediterranean i think), Saudi Arabia? Well the Saudi's have little to fear from the current conflict. Israel has been under siege (and been waging war) since they usurped the land the Palestinians were on (yes they did, they admit it...).

(cont...)

I don't feel like refuting everything you said (This is not to say that everything you said was wrong, it wasn't) however..

For the most part Iraq is stable, and according to the most recent poll of Iraqis through out the country they feel they are better off now than under Saddam.. however, when you just poll people just in Baghdad, you get much different results. Baghdad is a terrible darkspot, but to apply that dark spot to the whole country is disingenuous.

If we pull out without strengthening the central government and stabilizing Baghdad you will see things spread very quickly throughout the country as different factions fight for control and of course Al-Qeada in Iraq will want...

I don't feel like refuting everything you said (This is not to say that everything you said was wrong, it wasn't) however..

For the most part Iraq is stable, and according to the most recent poll of Iraqis through out the country they feel they are better off now than under Saddam.. however, when you just poll people just in Baghdad, you get much different results. Baghdad is a terrible darkspot, but to apply that dark spot to the whole country is disingenuous.

If we pull out without strengthening the central government and stabilizing Baghdad you will see things spread very quickly throughout the country as different factions fight for control and of course Al-Qeada in Iraq will want to see as much turmoil as possible. This is not even taking into account what Iran and Turkey may do. Instead of seeing 50 were executed today, you will see "500 executed in Bahgdad", "300 executed in Falluja", "1000 died in a battle between a Shia Imam and Sunni Imam", "a pitched battle between Kurds and Turks claimed the lives of 200", "A villiage just North of Iraq was torched by a Shia malitia".. so on and and so forth and just in a day or two, and those will just be the ones reported on. Then after decades of strife, maye someone will come out on top, and most likely it will be some tyrant, and the Iraqis get Saddam Hussien all over again. This may be acceptable to you, it is not for me.

All in all Iraq has been progressing upward, not downward, and if we keep the will or maybe I should say if we can regain the will to support the Iraqi government, I believe there is a strong chance for the Iraqi government and its people.

Also lets not forget, at the moment the surge the democrats opposed has had a positive affect in Baghdad everything is down across the board. Sure you still get terrible atrocities such as the one you mentioned but when aggregated the surge for the time being has been productive.