"Taboo" doesn't mean illegal.

When was the last time a believer contemplated the sounds of children and infants drowning in the floods of Noah? The bodies of millions of people bloated and rotting? Instead they pretty up the scene with cute little animals and a funny little boat and use it as wallpaper.

How about the story of the she-bear that killed 42 children for poking fun at a prophet's bald head. I wonder how many would actually stand by and watch a bear maul 42 children because their preacher deemed their picking on his baldness as a very wicked insult?

Pick any story of murder and rape from the bible. It is so easy not to actually talk about what it happening. Imagine if the churc...

"Taboo" doesn't mean illegal.

When was the last time a believer contemplated the sounds of children and infants drowning in the floods of Noah? The bodies of millions of people bloated and rotting? Instead they pretty up the scene with cute little animals and a funny little boat and use it as wallpaper.

How about the story of the she-bear that killed 42 children for poking fun at a prophet's bald head. I wonder how many would actually stand by and watch a bear maul 42 children because their preacher deemed their picking on his baldness as a very wicked insult?

Pick any story of murder and rape from the bible. It is so easy not to actually talk about what it happening. Imagine if the church in one county suddenly felt the need to rape and pillage a different church (or completely different religion) in another and went and massacred them? How long would that go unchallenged?

People don't discuss the whole bible. They only talk about and accept the good parts, but conveniently ignore the bad parts. It's taboo for them to question their own beliefs.

It doesn't matter if a bank robber is clever, or uses a gun and barges in - they are both doing something wrong. Religion is the same way. Some are as inhumane and callous as those described above, and others pretty it up and ignore the ugly stuff, but they are both based off the same set of bronze age instructions. But they don't like to discuss that.

You made it sound like people shouldn't even discuss these things because it leads to this disgusting excuse for a recording.

Quite the opposite. I believe that people have developed a sense of not questioning people's beliefs out of some misguided form of respect. I often hear statements like "what does their belief matter to you" and "you believe what you want and I'll believe what I want".

While these attitudes appear innocuous or innocent on the surface, they open the door to abuse and situations like I clipped above. All people who have developed beliefs apply those beliefs to their life, and sometimes that coincides with the lives of others. If policies are set with a ...

You made it sound like people shouldn't even discuss these things because it leads to this disgusting excuse for a recording.

Quite the opposite. I believe that people have developed a sense of not questioning people's beliefs out of some misguided form of respect. I often hear statements like "what does their belief matter to you" and "you believe what you want and I'll believe what I want".

While these attitudes appear innocuous or innocent on the surface, they open the door to abuse and situations like I clipped above. All people who have developed beliefs apply those beliefs to their life, and sometimes that coincides with the lives of others. If policies are set with a basis in belief then those beliefs most definitely need to be discussed and criticized if they are not rational.

It's easy to lay blame on "fanatics" but remember earlier I pointed out that these "fanatics" are the ones that are more closely following the words of the bible. I believe that the only reason we don't see more of this is because the human equation comes into play. Believer's themselves recognize the absurdity of the bible, which is why they self regulate and cherry pick what they take from it.

The Bible never commanded anyone to remove a demon from a child supposedly implanted by "harry potter" and record it for everyone else to hear

I disagree. There are ample scriptures that discuss the removal of demons and the bible also commands that Christians witness to other people to spread the word of god.

Matthew 12:28 "it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons"
Luke 9:1-2 "And He called The Twelve together and gave them power and authority over all demons and to cure diseases, and He sent them out to preach the Kingdom of God and to heal."
James 4:7[i]"Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from ...

The Bible never commanded anyone to remove a demon from a child supposedly implanted by "harry potter" and record it for everyone else to hear

I disagree. There are ample scriptures that discuss the removal of demons and the bible also commands that Christians witness to other people to spread the word of god.

Matthew 12:28 "it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons"
Luke 9:1-2 "And He called The Twelve together and gave them power and authority over all demons and to cure diseases, and He sent them out to preach the Kingdom of God and to heal."
James 4:7"Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you"

The bible is no wiser than any other works of mankind. In fact much of its wisdom is stolen from other societies. This wouldn't be such a problem save for the very unwise portions of the bible - such as advocating slavery, the treatment of women, the condoning of murder, rape, and slaughter, the usage of genocide as a means of control, and on and on.

I would agree that it is a literary work but the only great thing about it is that it has survived while other, better productions, have been destroyed through time. Even a quick examination of the bible finds contradictions, bad science, gross misunderstandings of nature, and immoral/unethical teachings.

I personally see no redeeming qualities in the bible or the religions built upon it. There is nothing religion provides to mankind that it cannot have without the stain of religion.

Well it seems to me that you've taken the same approach that you accuse these people of taking, only from a different perspective. Instead of ignoring the "bad" things found in the Bible, and only focusing on the "good" things, you only focus on the "bad" things and ignore the "good" things. I personally have rejected religious teachings, but I am still a believer in God, and I still enjoy reading the Bible. I find it's teachings useful, when kept in the right context and read from an unbiased point of view. Again I disagree that the Bible condones what happened here, your examples of the Bible condoning it do not fit this situation. These scriptures talk of people "possessed with spirits", ...

Well it seems to me that you've taken the same approach that you accuse these people of taking, only from a different perspective. Instead of ignoring the "bad" things found in the Bible, and only focusing on the "good" things, you only focus on the "bad" things and ignore the "good" things. I personally have rejected religious teachings, but I am still a believer in God, and I still enjoy reading the Bible. I find it's teachings useful, when kept in the right context and read from an unbiased point of view. Again I disagree that the Bible condones what happened here, your examples of the Bible condoning it do not fit this situation. These scriptures talk of people "possessed with spirits", many of them (if you will read the stories in their full context) were lunatics, or mentally diseased people, who were healed by Christ and the disciples. They were only healings, there were never any instances of a child being convinced that a certain book had "implanted the devil within them". They certainly weren't recorded for hundreds and thousands of others to hear. None of them ever involved a child. I will agree that there is nothing religion can provide mankind, it is full of hypocricy and lies and corruption, ignorance and deceit, but the Bible never condoned these things. Unfortunately many have abused it, and used it as a tool for manipulation, so many never bother reading it in its full context, or give it a chance to teach them something valuable.

Jones, if I told you that I enjoy a warm fire to read by, to warm my house, and to cook my food but I didn't use a fireplace or a fire pit, just whipped up a fire in the middle of my house, wouldn't you point out that such an action is a bit careless? You would say "You can have all the benefits of your fire if you just used a fireplace. Without it I risk burning my house down, choking in smoke, or injuring myself as I moved around.

I would argue that you are only pointing out the negatives because you are just biased to how I do it.

I point out the negative and ignore the positive because I CAN HAVE THE POSITIVE without the negative.

Again I disagree that the Bible condones what h...

Jones, if I told you that I enjoy a warm fire to read by, to warm my house, and to cook my food but I didn't use a fireplace or a fire pit, just whipped up a fire in the middle of my house, wouldn't you point out that such an action is a bit careless? You would say "You can have all the benefits of your fire if you just used a fireplace. Without it I risk burning my house down, choking in smoke, or injuring myself as I moved around.

I would argue that you are only pointing out the negatives because you are just biased to how I do it.

I point out the negative and ignore the positive because I CAN HAVE THE POSITIVE without the negative.

Again I disagree that the Bible condones what happened here, your examples of the Bible condoning it do not fit this situation.

Then you are in denial. If you didn't like the other examples, then try these.

Mark 1 : 21-28 "And they went into Capernaum; and straightway on the sabbath day he entered into the synagogue, and taught. And they were astonished at his doctrine: for he taught them as one that had authority, and not as the scribes. And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out, Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God. And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him. And when the unclean spirit had torn him, and cried with a loud voice, he came out of him."

Mark 1 : 39 And he preached in their synagogues throughout all Galilee, and cast out devils.

The bible teaches that followers of god has this devil casting power. What people that believers deem as "possessed" is up for debate. I can't help it if you refuse to accept that many people have been declared possessed just because they disagree with the church, but the stories are on the internet. Try exchristian.net for plenty of examples.

I rushed my last post, computer trouble and was in process of shutting down on me.

You aren't going to find an exact example of a child and a book in the bible. But you will find the instructions on how to treat those believed to be possessed. Not all possessions are of a mental or diseased nature. Ask any believer if they feel Hitler was possessed or influenced by Satan. Ask about any serial killer or any other bad person. More often than not even your garden variety chrisitan will tell you that yes, they people were possessed, taken over, influenced, or controlled by Satan.

It all comes down to interpretation. That you can read about exorcisms on a daily basis tells you how wide spread i...

I rushed my last post, computer trouble and was in process of shutting down on me.

You aren't going to find an exact example of a child and a book in the bible. But you will find the instructions on how to treat those believed to be possessed. Not all possessions are of a mental or diseased nature. Ask any believer if they feel Hitler was possessed or influenced by Satan. Ask about any serial killer or any other bad person. More often than not even your garden variety chrisitan will tell you that yes, they people were possessed, taken over, influenced, or controlled by Satan.

It all comes down to interpretation. That you can read about exorcisms on a daily basis tells you how wide spread it is. It's just not based on rare occurrences or third world ignorance.

I'm serious when I say check out exchristian.net and read some of the member testimonials and some of the exorcisms that some of those people endured because they didn't act like proper Christians.

When I cut my toe, as a child at camp, a neighbor camper, who was a baptist evangelist, demanded that he be allowed to cast the demons out of my foot. He did a lot of shouting and rough shoving and called for the demons to leave my cut toe. I think that was one of the major points in my life that made me recognize how stupid religion really was.

The bible is responsible for this nonsense because the instructions for doing it are right there in the book.

"And they went into Capernaum; and straightway on the sabbath day he entered into the synagogue, and taught. And they were astonished at his doctrine: for he taught them as one that had authority, and not as the scribes. And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out, Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God. And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him. And when the unclean spirit had torn him, and cried with a loud voice, he came out of him."

According to this verse the man was "possesed by a demon". He referred to himself as ...

"And they went into Capernaum; and straightway on the sabbath day he entered into the synagogue, and taught. And they were astonished at his doctrine: for he taught them as one that had authority, and not as the scribes. And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out, Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God. And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him. And when the unclean spirit had torn him, and cried with a loud voice, he came out of him."

According to this verse the man was "possesed by a demon". He referred to himself as "us" and knew who Christ truly was. Christ expelled the demon, and the man went on his way. Again, the person was obviously sick, the person was not a child, Christ healed him and he went on his way. That is not what is happening in the recording you clipped.

I can't help it if you refuse to accept that many people have been declared possessed just because they disagree with the church, but the stories are on the internet. Try exchristian.net for plenty of examples.

I don't refuse to accept it, and I don't deny it. People have been declared possessed just because they disagree with the church. This does not change the fact that the Bible does not condone what these people are doing. Any example of "casting out devils" that you find in the Bible will be a person who was sick that Christ healed, you will not find an example of Christ "casting out devils" in people because they disagreed with him, or because they were reading books f...

I can't help it if you refuse to accept that many people have been declared possessed just because they disagree with the church, but the stories are on the internet. Try exchristian.net for plenty of examples.

I don't refuse to accept it, and I don't deny it. People have been declared possessed just because they disagree with the church. This does not change the fact that the Bible does not condone what these people are doing. Any example of "casting out devils" that you find in the Bible will be a person who was sick that Christ healed, you will not find an example of Christ "casting out devils" in people because they disagreed with him, or because they were reading books found to be "wicked". If you did, I would be in perfect agreement with you.

When I cut my toe, as a child at camp, a neighbor camper, who was a baptist evangelist, demanded that he be allowed to cast the demons out of my foot. He did a lot of shouting and rough shoving and called for the demons to leave my cut toe. I think that was one of the major points in my life that made me recognize how stupid religion really was. The bible is responsible for this nonsense because the instructions for doing it are right there in the book.

First of all I can't imagine what it would be like to have an experience like this... I would have told him he was stark raving mad myself. However, the Bible still does not condone this. I have yet to see one piece of scriptu...

When I cut my toe, as a child at camp, a neighbor camper, who was a baptist evangelist, demanded that he be allowed to cast the demons out of my foot. He did a lot of shouting and rough shoving and called for the demons to leave my cut toe. I think that was one of the major points in my life that made me recognize how stupid religion really was. The bible is responsible for this nonsense because the instructions for doing it are right there in the book.

First of all I can't imagine what it would be like to have an experience like this... I would have told him he was stark raving mad myself. However, the Bible still does not condone this. I have yet to see one piece of scripture that instructs a believer to cast a demon out of a cut toe. If you find one, please let me know, I would be most interested.

Again, the person was obviously sick, the person was not a child, Christ healed him and he went on his way. That is not what is happening in the recording you clipped.

The girl read Harry Potter, the fruitcake parents and pastor decided she was sick and possessed. They torture, abused, and mind-humped her, declared the demon gone after she said what they wanted to hear. This is exactly as the bible described Mark 1:21-28. Since the bible doesn't specifically describe what demon possession is its left up to the reader to decide.

ou will not find an example of Christ "casting out devils" in people because they disagreed with him,

Matthew 4:24: [i]".....

Again, the person was obviously sick, the person was not a child, Christ healed him and he went on his way. That is not what is happening in the recording you clipped.

The girl read Harry Potter, the fruitcake parents and pastor decided she was sick and possessed. They torture, abused, and mind-humped her, declared the demon gone after she said what they wanted to hear. This is exactly as the bible described Mark 1:21-28. Since the bible doesn't specifically describe what demon possession is its left up to the reader to decide.

ou will not find an example of Christ "casting out devils" in people because they disagreed with him,

Matthew 4:24: "...they brought unto him [Jesus] all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy..."

Since sickness, lunacy, palsy, disease, and torments are already described then having demon possession listed as symptom would be redundant if possession only referred to healings. Possession is when people are not "normal" in some way and that can be defined as their health or how they act (part of which being what they believe).

Various passages describe how Satan can adopt a spirit form, reside inside a person, and influence their thoughts and behavior in the same way as a demon can:

Ephesians 2:2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

John 13:2And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;

Acts 5:3But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Just as Judas had "the devil in his heart" one could easily argue Hitler did as well.

They merely state that Christ gave those specific desciples authority to, and then the rest just document the action taking place.

Oh for the love of Pete, do you even read your own bible? Christ ordered his disciples to cast out demons, then he said anyone that followed god could cast out demons, and THEN he said anyone could :

Matthew 10:7-8 - tells his disciples to heal and expell demons as he did, made possible by the power of the holy spirit.

Luke 10:17-20 - describes 70 followers who Christ sends out to cast out demons and do miracles.

Mark 9:38-40 - John tells Christ they saw someone casting out demons who was not a follower them, but Christ sai...

They merely state that Christ gave those specific desciples authority to, and then the rest just document the action taking place.

Oh for the love of Pete, do you even read your own bible? Christ ordered his disciples to cast out demons, then he said anyone that followed god could cast out demons, and THEN he said anyone could :

Matthew 10:7-8 - tells his disciples to heal and expell demons as he did, made possible by the power of the holy spirit.

Luke 10:17-20 - describes 70 followers who Christ sends out to cast out demons and do miracles.

Mark 9:38-40 - John tells Christ they saw someone casting out demons who was not a follower them, but Christ said it was Ok because "he that is not against us is on our part"

It is pretty obvious that anyone reading the bible is going to find these passages explaining the demons exist and they take many forms, from sickness, to injury, to madness, to being a force that makes people do things that are not condoned as acceptable.

The bible also tells people that they can be dispelled by invoking god/christ/holy spirit. So it comes down to a matter of interpretation on how dilligent or aggressive one is going to be in finding and/or expelling these demons.

The majority of believers accept this stuff. They agree that demons are trying to tempt people all over. "The Lord of Lies" remember? Their response is to cast the devil or demons out. It doesn't have to be a full blown exorcism - that is not what the clipped girl went through - she just went through a rebuking - which is worse because it is more common.

The bible is a bronze age book of ritual mythology that people take as real. Sure it has a few pearls of wisdom, mostly stolen from other cultures, but there is absolutely nothing good in the bible that mankind cannot find or learn elsewhere.

Shakespeare's stories often teach valuable life lessons, but his work certainly isn't taken as divine.

I have yet to see one piece of scripture that instructs a believer to cast a demon out of a cut toe.

Oh give me a break. Now you are just being obtuse.

Look, if you don't want to see the obvious then you won't see it. It's common in believers to old on to ideas that validate their belief and ignore anything that contradicts it. It's pretty obvious that you are doing so right here.

Unless I am not understanding your argument, then you are definitely in total denial when you start demanding scripture that covers specific what you want to see word for word.

To even try this argument with the toe just suggests to me that you are a complete waste of time when you yourself hav...

I have yet to see one piece of scripture that instructs a believer to cast a demon out of a cut toe.

Oh give me a break. Now you are just being obtuse.

Look, if you don't want to see the obvious then you won't see it. It's common in believers to old on to ideas that validate their belief and ignore anything that contradicts it. It's pretty obvious that you are doing so right here.

Unless I am not understanding your argument, then you are definitely in total denial when you start demanding scripture that covers specific what you want to see word for word.

To even try this argument with the toe just suggests to me that you are a complete waste of time when you yourself have tried to defend against what I was saying by claiming casting out demons was a method of healing, not controlling people that thought differently. You are contradicting yourself.

The bible is a pox on mankind. Through it people have developed various religious cults, practiced various levels of mental abuse, used it to ostracize specific people, killed in the name of the god it supports, held back scientific advancement, effected rational decisions that have cost people their lives, advocated hatred, separation, slavery, rape, murder, abuse, incest, etc.

Frankly, any good that such a source can teach is overshadowed by the above. That is my argument, that is why I present the darker areas of the bible. There is no reason to bother showing anything that might be positive in the bible since all that is positive can be found in other sources of inspiration.

The sooner mankind turns away from this destructive form of mythological worship the better.

To even try this argument with the toe just suggests to me that you are a complete waste of time when you yourself have tried to defend against what I was saying by claiming casting out demons was a method of healing, not controlling people that thought differently. You are contradicting yourself.

Oort, you are taking the Bible COMPLETELY out of context and applying an extremely vague interpertation to it. Every example of demon possession in the Bible is where a man was literally possessed by a demon. This demon would turn people into lunatics. They would know things they weren't supposed to know, or refer to themselves in the plural, or would be running around n[b]...

To even try this argument with the toe just suggests to me that you are a complete waste of time when you yourself have tried to defend against what I was saying by claiming casting out demons was a method of healing, not controlling people that thought differently. You are contradicting yourself.

Oort, you are taking the Bible COMPLETELY out of context and applying an extremely vague interpertation to it. Every example of demon possession in the Bible is where a man was literally possessed by a demon. This demon would turn people into lunatics. They would know things they weren't supposed to know, or refer to themselves in the plural, or would be running around naked and attacking people. When Christ or one of his disciples cast a demon out, they healed this person and the person no longer did these things. A cut toe is not demon possession, though the disciples certainly did perform other healings (they healed the blind, the lame, the sick with palsy). I'm sorry if you find the fact that I take the Bible seriously annoying, but if we read any other piece of literature like you're attempting to read the Bible it would be nothing more then a joke.

The bible is a pox on mankind. Through it people have developed various religious cults, practiced various levels of mental abuse, used it to ostracize specific people, killed in the name of the god it supports, held back scientific advancement, effected rational decisions that have cost people their lives, advocated hatred, separation, slavery, rape, murder, abuse, incest, etc.

Really? Even though our justice system is based on the laws found in the Bible? Even though science continues to validate claims made in the Bible? I personally can think of know other book that religion is based on that teaches anything like Christ taught in the New Testament (love your neighbour a...

The bible is a pox on mankind. Through it people have developed various religious cults, practiced various levels of mental abuse, used it to ostracize specific people, killed in the name of the god it supports, held back scientific advancement, effected rational decisions that have cost people their lives, advocated hatred, separation, slavery, rape, murder, abuse, incest, etc.

Really? Even though our justice system is based on the laws found in the Bible? Even though science continues to validate claims made in the Bible? I personally can think of know other book that religion is based on that teaches anything like Christ taught in the New Testament (love your neighbour as yourself, pray for them that despitefull use you, forgive others as you have been forgiven, and on and on and on...) I believe what you may be trying to say is that since the Bible is so vague, and so open to abuse, that it has influence the atrocities commited by the religous. Again, is that what you're saying?

Jones, I give up. It's ironic that you tell me I'm taking the bible out of context when I got my scripture quotes FROM CHRISTIAN SITES that discussed what demon possession is, who can combat it, how to combat it, and what scriptures in the bible prove it. Here are a couple I read through :

Casting out Demons
What the bible says about Demons
Should Christians Drive out Demons from people?
How to Cast out Demons

Yo...

Jones, I give up. It's ironic that you tell me I'm taking the bible out of context when I got my scripture quotes FROM CHRISTIAN SITES that discussed what demon possession is, who can combat it, how to combat it, and what scriptures in the bible prove it. Here are a couple I read through :

Casting out Demons
What the bible says about Demons
Should Christians Drive out Demons from people?
How to Cast out Demons

You seem to think that the problem is the bible abusing "casting out power" to support my argument, and thats ridiculous. The scriptures don't give details and often say that demons were cast out with any descriptions. I rather doubt that the bible authors are going to say "he was possessed because he didn't think the same as us".

The abuse is in how people read, interpret, and use the bible. Not because they abuse something worthy, but because the bible is ridiculous in the first place. It actually suggests mental illness, genetic defects, injury, sickness are the cause of demon infestation.

Just saw your last post. Jones, you are ignorant or deluded. There is no point continuing this discussion. Science does not support the bible, America was not founded on Christian principals, and the bible plagiarizes earlier religions for its "moralistic" codes and stories. Try looking into the "code of hammurabi" or the story of Gilgamesh.

I've had these same arguments with too many people and I always get the same response - denial. I'm really not interested in trying to educate someone who isn't interested in learning any truth. Hopefully someone else will step in, but for my part my prior words stand on their own and I am done.

You seem to think that the problem is the bible abusing "casting out power" to support my argument, and thats ridiculous. The scriptures don't give details and often say that demons were cast out with any descriptions. I rather doubt that the bible authors are going to say "he was possessed because he didn't think the same as us". The abuse is in how people read, interpret, and use the bible. Not because they abuse something worthy, but because the bible is ridiculous in the first place. It actually suggests mental illness, genetic defects, injury, sickness are the cause of demon infestation.

I already mentioned that you probably believe the notion of demon possession to be...

You seem to think that the problem is the bible abusing "casting out power" to support my argument, and thats ridiculous. The scriptures don't give details and often say that demons were cast out with any descriptions. I rather doubt that the bible authors are going to say "he was possessed because he didn't think the same as us". The abuse is in how people read, interpret, and use the bible. Not because they abuse something worthy, but because the bible is ridiculous in the first place. It actually suggests mental illness, genetic defects, injury, sickness are the cause of demon infestation.

I already mentioned that you probably believe the notion of demon possession to be rediculous. I already said that's understandable. But you cannot, again, blame the Bible for these people abusing others unless you can give an example of it. I give up as well, you are ignorant in your own way and in denial of it. That was the only point I was making, I obviously can't change your opinion of the Bible, and honestly I wouldn't even want to. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and belief, I would never attempt to change it. A person must find the truth on their own, or it means nothing.