 enbar says: A long article by Linda Hirschmann on how the idea of giving women "the choice" to stay home and raise children ultimately defeats the original vision of feminism. Her advice to women? Marry down. A provocative, thoughtful piece. So I can't choose to stay home with my daughter and still call myself a feminist? I'm okay with that. Women who want to have sex and children with men as well as good work in interesting jobs where they may occasionally wield real social powerLet me throw out a hypothesis here. Such "interesting" jobs are few and far between, and this a major reason why many of the women Hirschman talked to are willing to accept traditional gender roles that consign women to be homemakers. What exactly is wrong with being a mother and caring for your family. I can't imagine a job that wields more real social power than that of caring for and teaching the children who will be the future. Having the time to instill values and compassion that will help them create a better world. Now that is something people spend years trying to do in the workforce...why shouldn't a woman be proud to be that strength in this never satisfied world? why shouldn't a woman be proud to be that strength in this never satisfied world?I think the article's point is: if this is true, how come so few men ever do it voluntarily? I think the article's point is: if this is true, how come so few men ever do it voluntarily?I think this speaks more to how society views a man's role than it does about women. Specifically, what does it say about male gender roles as defined by society? I tend to agree with you, but it also seems to me that if you talk about male gender roles, you're implicitly talking about female gender roles too. I don't think they're really separable. Don't get me wrong, I think this article is completely misguided in its narrow-minded view of what constitutes genuine success and influence. By its standards, I am a total failure, regardless of my gender, and so is my wife, because neither of us is rich or powerful (I'm a teacher, she's a social worker). Still I think it's an interesting argument. the belief that women are responsible for child-rearing and homemaking was largely untouched by decades of workplace feminismI think it has little to do with "belief" that women are responsible for child-rearing, and more to do with woman WANT to do the child rearing.. I know very few women who would pass up the opportunity to e a stay at home mom. Not that they don't want professional careers, they want tat too, but before and after the initial stages of childbirth/care... My g/f wants to stay home for the first 5/6 years. then when the kids are in school, go back to work. Many of the women I know have similar goals. When I ask them why, they simply state that they want... PS: It also takes more than a single generation to change how people act and think (not just about their roles, but about what they feel is the norm and how they want to fit into that or break out of it). The fact that the statistics they mentioned of women in the workplace is slipping, i feel is a bit of proof that many women WANT to be stay at home moms, at least for a while. Feminists might find that idea repulsive, or sexist, or whatever.. I think they are forcing their views on others  (I'm a teacher, she's a social worker).Picked some easy careers there, didn't you. My hat's off to you both.Most of society views success as monetary wealth or power and influence. Perhaps there should be a movement to challenge that notion. I am exactly where I want to be right now; I could also choose to work outside the home. I have the shoulders of many women to thank for that. @ CatWhisperer: I think there are two separate issues here: 1. Do men and women genuinely want different things? If so, why? 2. Do men and women have exactly the same choices open to them? If no, why not? I'm skeptical about both, frankly. I mean, your point seems to suggest that no one wants to have a job at all, and that might be true. So then why is it that men end up with all the influential, powerful jobs, while women end up changing diapers? Is it really because women like changing diapers and doing laundry, and men like going to the office all day? I wonder how much "choice" is really involved, and how much of it is people just "choosing" to conform to what they think is expected of them. So then why is it that men end up with all the influential, powerful jobs, while women end up changing diapers? Is it really because women like changing diapers and doing laundry, and men like going to the office all day?enbar, I wonder why you phrased the questions this way. Child-rearing (so eloquently described by kvk101 in the comment above) is defined here as "changing diapers" and "doing laundry." I'm willing to bet that no one really likes changing diapers, but that is just one task in the overall job description. I doubt that men enjoy doing TPS reports but that is only one aspect of the job. I wonder how much "choice" is really involved, and how much of it ... NO ONE has the same choices open to them as anyone else. I'm not saying there isn't sexism still existent in the workplace, but for the most part, I think the majority of women who do strive for C-level or similar positions, do eventually get them. Again, you can't change everyone's mind about what is the "norm" in one generation (that's why it s called the "norm".) I think men & women want differnt things because we are inherently different. This is known, men & woman have different physiological reactions when it come to child rearing, when it comes to providing for the family. I'm not saying this should mean that we should treat the two sexes differently, and that the two sexes... A great quote by Oscar Wilde "Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live." I think this is where the feminist movement goes wrong and does a huge disservice to society. The feminist movement was about equal rights, not equal results. I agree with CatWhisperer. Feminists tell us that men are doing wrong but that in order to live by the feminists' doctrine we must follow the negative examples of some men... "You can either find a spouse with less social power than you or find one with an ideological commitment to gender equality. Taking the easier path first, marry down. Don’t think of this as brutally strategic. If you are devoted t... Well, glad to see the clip sparked some discussion. Indeed, a good clip, enbar. (as usual). It was a great clip and discussion...thank you. Well, thank you! |
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