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2-10-2008 10:03 AM
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jklugman says:
Chris Hedges is the author of this editorial.

...those who support the continuation of the war insist that "the surge" has been successful. But the surge...did little to thwart attacks.

"The big news of the past year, the smashing up of al-Qaeda in Iraq and the stabilization of a lot of Sunni Arab areas, has virtually nothing to do with the surge," said Wayne White, former deputy director of the State Department's Middle East Intelligence unit. "What we have done, in effect, is we have made a deal with the devil in order to get rid of al-Qaeda. We have allowed nearly 100,000 tough Sunni Arab fighters to organize and arm themselves as they never could before when they had to operate underground. We have destroyed a nasty insurgency and replaced it with a more deeply rooted and broad-based potential insurgency."
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2-10-2008 1:17 PM
willhelm
I wonder if Chris Hedges read Gen Petreus' Field Manual for Counter Insurgency. It is published and available to the public.
I suspect Mr. Hedges is no expert and his speculation self serving.
2-10-2008 1:34 PM
ratilfar
Waiting for the day they can have it out without American interference. Short term "stability" for long term bloodletting.
2-10-2008 1:38 PM
abailart
It is good to see the issues contextualised in the recent past and wider historical context. Only in fairytales will the sunnis drink coffee with the shia on the peaceful boulevards of baghdad when the nice americans go home.
2-10-2008 5:06 PM
willhelm
Only in fairytales will the sunnis drink coffee with the shia on the
peaceful boulevards of baghdad when the nice americans go home.
They coexist quite well in many places throughout the World. I do not believe Muslims are predisposed to killing each other. Are you kidding, Abailart? Do you think that Muslims are so inherently intolerant of each other that they have no other options but to kill each other? That seems to reveal some animosity toward the religion of Islam.
2-12-2008 1:14 PM
enbar
Actually, Chris Hedges knows what he's talking about. And you only have to think back to the mujahedeen in Afghanistan to know there's considerable historical precedent for the point he's making.
2-12-2008 1:17 PM
ratilfar
Heck you only have to look at such figures as Noriega, Saddam and Chalabi.
2-12-2008 1:34 PM
willhelm
Actually, Chris Hedges knows what he's talking about.
Thanks, Enbar. I was unaware of Mr Hedges vast experience in counter-insurgency. Perhaps Petreus should consult him.
2-12-2008 2:18 PM
ratilfar
Maybe he should.
2-12-2008 3:22 PM
abailart
Sunni Muslims, Shia Muslims. Roman Catholics, Protestants. While having respect for both Islam and Christianity, I do believe it is uncontroversial to point out the historical record of violence between factions within them. That the Sunni power base of Saddam is now being courted by the US does beg a few questions.
2-12-2008 3:46 PM
willhelm
I do believe it is uncontroversial to point out the historical record of violence between factions within them.
Point taken. However, you went beyond pointing it out to making the point of labeling the idea opposed to your opinion as a "fairy tale". Based on your past comments, I expect much more of your opinion.

I do not think you believe it is a fairy to tale to maintain a peaceful coexistence in Iraq between the Sunni and Shia.
I think you made that comment due to your political differences with those seeking that end. But discussing the challenges, I agree, is certainly important.
2-12-2008 6:18 PM
abailart
"fairytale" as in happy endings. I believe any reasonablly peaceful coexistence is a long way off, and the reasons for this would be included in a detailed historical analysis. Hopefully as soon as possible accommodation will be reached, and hopefully this will happen too in other areas of the mideast. But while there are no easy solutions, it is fair to criticise existent policies and day-to-day claims for progress based on partial perspectives (not that any interpretation could be perspicuus). In particular, the al qaeda factor, while relevant, should be seen, putting it albeit somewhat crudely, in the contexts of their being as invisible as the weapons of mass destruction in the eventual ...
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