From Orwell's "Notes on Nationalism" http://www.george-orwell.org/Notes_on_Nationalism/0.html

5. PACIFISM
The majority of pacifists either belong to obscure religious sects or are simply humanitarians who object to the taking of life and prefer not to follow their thoughts beyond that point. But there is a minority of intellectual pacifists whose real though unadmitted motive appears to be hatred of western democracy and admiration of totalitarianism. Pacifist propaganda usually boils down to saying that one side is as bad as the other, but if one looks closely at the writings of younger intellectual pacifists, one finds that they do not by any means express impartial disapproval but are di...

From Orwell's "Notes on Nationalism" http://www.george-orwell.org/Notes_on_Nationalism/0.html

5. PACIFISM
The majority of pacifists either belong to obscure religious sects or are simply humanitarians who object to the taking of life and prefer not to follow their thoughts beyond that point. But there is a minority of intellectual pacifists whose real though unadmitted motive appears to be hatred of western democracy and admiration of totalitarianism. Pacifist propaganda usually boils down to saying that one side is as bad as the other, but if one looks closely at the writings of younger intellectual pacifists, one finds that they do not by any means express impartial disapproval but are directed almost entirely against Britain and the United States. Moreover they do not as a rule condemn violence as such, but only violence used in defense of western countries. The Russians, unlike the British, are not blamed for defending themselves by warlike means, and indeed all pacifist propaganda of this type avoids mention of Russia or China.

Let's, see - first you made some comments in another post, then I countered them and asked you if you were defending people like bin laden... after which you gave me a round-about answer about why America is so terrible. At some point later you challenged me to debate, which I accepted... that's what I recall in my Russian-accented English.

Now you're backing off using a premise that I was 'rude'. If you're defending killing of my fellow countrymen in cold blood, that's about as rude as one gets, IMO... but I'm still willing to debate things with you, if you'd like. If you don't - that's fine, but don't hide under some silly notion as to why you don't want to debate.

Maybe we have a dif...

Let's, see - first you made some comments in another post, then I countered them and asked you if you were defending people like bin laden... after which you gave me a round-about answer about why America is so terrible. At some point later you challenged me to debate, which I accepted... that's what I recall in my Russian-accented English.

Now you're backing off using a premise that I was 'rude'. If you're defending killing of my fellow countrymen in cold blood, that's about as rude as one gets, IMO... but I'm still willing to debate things with you, if you'd like. If you don't - that's fine, but don't hide under some silly notion as to why you don't want to debate.

Maybe we have a different definition of the word 'rude'... maybe you're looking for 'respect'. As someone wise once said - "respect needs to be earned". So, if you want respect - you'll need to earn it.

I don't want to become your friend, I don't want to become your relative and my English is fine. If you want to debate - let's debate. If you don't - next time don't ask for one unless you're willing to proceed.

Is that rude enough for ya? If so - too bad, because it's just honest truth, nothing rude intended.

Good question:
Answer: America (or more specifically the american government ) has been attacking humanity , trying to control all its resources etc. So humanity, and specifically those whom america has terrorised and attacked and killed and slaughtered naturally will feel the need to retaliate back. The latest example is the lebanon, terrorised by american bombs and the american governement green light for israel to do whatever it likes including killing and targetting civilian population. For details of terrorism by america on humanity i refer you to many of Naom Chomsky's books. Here is a good one:

What uncle Sam doesnt want you to know
http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/sam/sam-contents.htm...

Good question:
Answer: America (or more specifically the american government ) has been attacking humanity , trying to control all its resources etc. So humanity, and specifically those whom america has terrorised and attacked and killed and slaughtered naturally will feel the need to retaliate back. The latest example is the lebanon, terrorised by american bombs and the american governement green light for israel to do whatever it likes including killing and targetting civilian population. For details of terrorism by america on humanity i refer you to many of Naom Chomsky's books. Here is a good one:

What uncle Sam doesnt want you to know
http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/sam/sam-contents.html

Another answer, strangley enough, and this is very hard to believe but the evidence is so compelling and I actually believe it. Is that that US government itself masterminded 911 so as to enable it to fully control the people. And it can create the politics of fear enabling it to introduce laws that people would never imagine could be introduced. Restricting freedom of individuals , tapping them etc.

For evidence of this checkout the loosechange 911 video done , again, by americans who want to seek the truth about the matter:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501&q=loose+change+recut

website: http://www.loosechange911.com

Hope this answers your question in full.

Stepping back a bit. So, in your estimation the bombing of WTC in 1993 was a retaliation for all the ills America has done. Was that bombing perpetrated by American government or was it retaliation by the muslim world?

You see, you can't seem to slow down and rationally discuss the issue. Logical question would be - if America is so terrible - why would you and zillion other muslims want to move here (or anywhere in the West)? Let's assume your answer is "to educate" the poor ignorant infidels here. So, if your statement about the government is true, i.e. they are this evil group of people (which happens to change every 4-8 years in our case... but let's keep going) and they're so powe...

Stepping back a bit. So, in your estimation the bombing of WTC in 1993 was a retaliation for all the ills America has done. Was that bombing perpetrated by American government or was it retaliation by the muslim world?

You see, you can't seem to slow down and rationally discuss the issue. Logical question would be - if America is so terrible - why would you and zillion other muslims want to move here (or anywhere in the West)? Let's assume your answer is "to educate" the poor ignorant infidels here. So, if your statement about the government is true, i.e. they are this evil group of people (which happens to change every 4-8 years in our case... but let's keep going) and they're so powerful and evil as to orchestrate 9/11 - why would they let you into the country? So you can educate the masses how bad they are? That makes absolutely no sense.

Let's try to focus a bit, no ranting... one more time - I'd like a concise and precise response, based on facts according to you, specifically why WTC was attacked in 1993?

I will try to help you a bit more RS. Assuming that you are not in a state of denial about things and that you sincerely want to understand. I hope my assumption is in its place.

First point:
Was it done by the american government or was it retaliation? It may have been both. It could be that the US new that this plan existed and they thought to themselves, why dont WE (ie the US government) help facilitate it so that we can exaggerate the losses and make it more of a calamity than it would be. This way we can then show our public that indeed this terrorism threat must be taken seriously and that America MUST do something about it, and so its time for you to send your sons and daughters to...

I will try to help you a bit more RS. Assuming that you are not in a state of denial about things and that you sincerely want to understand. I hope my assumption is in its place.

First point:
Was it done by the american government or was it retaliation? It may have been both. It could be that the US new that this plan existed and they thought to themselves, why dont WE (ie the US government) help facilitate it so that we can exaggerate the losses and make it more of a calamity than it would be. This way we can then show our public that indeed this terrorism threat must be taken seriously and that America MUST do something about it, and so its time for you to send your sons and daughters to die for us. This way we can attack anyone we like and further our national interests without having to worry too much about opposition. And anyone who doesnt tread the line, we can easily call them a traitor. At the same time they get to keep the Gold that was under the towers (see the loosechange video), and then say that it all evaporated in the attack. And they can also get the insurance money for the buildings being attacked (refer to the video). So it seems like an excellent idea for the US government. They win both ways. They dupe their people and they expand their terrorism on humanity like they couldnt do before.

Second point: Why would a zillion muslims want to move out of their countries and into the West?

They dont. But they are forced to because of the evil dictatorial regimes that the US and UK governments have supported and erected in that area. Making life a misery. Saddam is a very good example of a dictator setup by the US and supported by both the US and the UK. Gaddafi another. Tunisian and Moroccon ones another. None of the leaders in the middleast have been democratically elected. And when the people do manager to democratically elect one the West moves in and removes them and sticks in their own puppet again. Examples of this are Algeria, and very recently in Palestine when Hamas won...

Second point: Why would a zillion muslims want to move out of their countries and into the West?

They dont. But they are forced to because of the evil dictatorial regimes that the US and UK governments have supported and erected in that area. Making life a misery. Saddam is a very good example of a dictator setup by the US and supported by both the US and the UK. Gaddafi another. Tunisian and Moroccon ones another. None of the leaders in the middleast have been democratically elected. And when the people do manager to democratically elect one the West moves in and removes them and sticks in their own puppet again. Examples of this are Algeria, and very recently in Palestine when Hamas won and the West decided to remove them by force and population starvation tactics.

Last bit of your Second point:
Why the Muslims decide to come to West if they know its evil. Well its not to educate the West. But once they are their it becomes a duty to do so. But the reason they Muslims go to the West, is because they search for any nation that they can survive in outside their countries. The US and UK and are the richest countries because they are rich theives, stealing from humanty's resources. So obviously you want to go to a rich country rather than a poor country where there will be more problems. Plus much of the wealth in those countries has come from the oil and such like resources from the Muslim countries. So why shouldnt they go to these countries. You can l...

Last bit of your Second point:
Why the Muslims decide to come to West if they know its evil. Well its not to educate the West. But once they are their it becomes a duty to do so. But the reason they Muslims go to the West, is because they search for any nation that they can survive in outside their countries. The US and UK and are the richest countries because they are rich theives, stealing from humanty's resources. So obviously you want to go to a rich country rather than a poor country where there will be more problems. Plus much of the wealth in those countries has come from the oil and such like resources from the Muslim countries. So why shouldnt they go to these countries. You can look at it that they are reclaiming some of the stolen wealth from them.

Any more questions?

It's amazing to me that you, claiming to me a 'thinking person' believe such stuff... For example, again falling back on logic alone - if what you said was true - why would the American government need to attack the WTC twice? Was the Clinton administration so inept that it had to wait until Bush got into the office to do it right? Considering the fact that there were hundreds of attacks that were foiled since 1993 - why permit the attack on USS Cole? It's a single ship, doesn't have that many people, (if one was to use your logic) - it makes no sense to pick a target that tiny to start a war. Even Cobart Towers attack, although much more devastating in terms of loss of life - still does...

It's amazing to me that you, claiming to me a 'thinking person' believe such stuff... For example, again falling back on logic alone - if what you said was true - why would the American government need to attack the WTC twice? Was the Clinton administration so inept that it had to wait until Bush got into the office to do it right? Considering the fact that there were hundreds of attacks that were foiled since 1993 - why permit the attack on USS Cole? It's a single ship, doesn't have that many people, (if one was to use your logic) - it makes no sense to pick a target that tiny to start a war. Even Cobart Towers attack, although much more devastating in terms of loss of life - still doesn't rise to the level to 'orchestrate' the war.

Your whole argument about the oil is bogus because it's purchased - not taken. Many of the Middle East nations are as rich as they are (or at least people running them are) because they SELL the oil. US could've easily stepped in and just taken it - but it hasn't - why? If US was as evil as you claim - do you think we'd give a hoot for the world opinion? We're the strongest country in the world, and the richest, as you correctly stated - we could eliminate the Middle East from existence forever, if we wanted to. Why haven't we?

If US plundered all these countries as you claim - why would we give as much help to other countries in need as we do? Why do we continue to support UN (financially) as no other country on the planet, even though it's just another anti-US organization?

And please stick to well known facts - don't point me to Michael Moore as some sort of authority figure. I've seen as many fictional and conspiratorial movies as you have (probably more)... so let's not use examples from knowingly biased individuals. This debate is between you and I, using our brains (mostly) and quoting facts, not conspiracy theories from people who've been debunked so many times that even their name isn't worth mentioning.

Since you're jumping a little to the Palestinian issue - let's address it a bit.

I've raised this here before, but got a non-answer, perhaps you can shed some light on this.

Why don't the palestinians ask for some time in front of UN and put the following list to the world:
1) We're immediately stopping all terrorist activities in and around Israel
2) We're willing to live and recognize Israel as a country, just as the rest of the world does
3) We're seeking to establish our own country
4) We're asking any country to help us rebuild ours and lift any sanctions that were placed before

What this kind of move do is both advance their cause (if they actually do it, of course) and tie Israel's...

Since you're jumping a little to the Palestinian issue - let's address it a bit.

I've raised this here before, but got a non-answer, perhaps you can shed some light on this.

Why don't the palestinians ask for some time in front of UN and put the following list to the world:
1) We're immediately stopping all terrorist activities in and around Israel
2) We're willing to live and recognize Israel as a country, just as the rest of the world does
3) We're seeking to establish our own country
4) We're asking any country to help us rebuild ours and lift any sanctions that were placed before

What this kind of move do is both advance their cause (if they actually do it, of course) and tie Israel's hands, whereby they won't be able to commit 'crimes', as you call their actions, any longer, being put in front of the face of the world. Why don't they do this?

Ali, as I said - let's debate as 2 individuals. I know who Michael Moore is and what his 'documentaries' are all about, obviously you don't seem to. I could ask you to watch this documentary, but I won't, since we're not exchanging movies here, but trying to debate the issues as YOU and I see them, not some guy who rakes in millions for the sake of... well, raking in millions.

As for your belief in what I know and don't know - I recommend you quit wondering, since you DON'T know what answers I have what answers I don't have, so let's just stick to the topic. I ask a question - you answer. You ask a question - I answer. Let's leave G*d out of it, he isn't participating in this debate, ...

Ali, as I said - let's debate as 2 individuals. I know who Michael Moore is and what his 'documentaries' are all about, obviously you don't seem to. I could ask you to watch this documentary, but I won't, since we're not exchanging movies here, but trying to debate the issues as YOU and I see them, not some guy who rakes in millions for the sake of... well, raking in millions.

As for your belief in what I know and don't know - I recommend you quit wondering, since you DON'T know what answers I have what answers I don't have, so let's just stick to the topic. I ask a question - you answer. You ask a question - I answer. Let's leave G*d out of it, he isn't participating in this debate, just you, me and any other fellow Clipmarkians that want to chime in, since we do live in a free country, despite our evil rulers.

So, for the sake of clarity, interest and bandwidth/CM storage conservation - let's stick to the points, please.

Btw, Michael's last name is 'Moore', just thought I'd mention it since you seem to be fond of the man... might as well get his name right.

I cannot leave God out of it, but i can leave you out.

Regarding the answers:
1)You said the US buys oil, not steals it.
Here you should know something. The US controls production and Oil pricing. It just orders its puppets to jump and they ask how high.

Related to this is why US doesnt just steal and remove all its problems by brute force. Answer: Because it wants to appear as a bastion of good and justice in the world, as well as export such false goodness about itself such as the 'American Dream' etc. So it cannot do this and act evil at the same time. So it has to do things underhand.

The US also uses the UN as a bullying tool through which it forces its own policies. And when that...

I cannot leave God out of it, but i can leave you out.

Regarding the answers:
1)You said the US buys oil, not steals it.
Here you should know something. The US controls production and Oil pricing. It just orders its puppets to jump and they ask how high.

Related to this is why US doesnt just steal and remove all its problems by brute force. Answer: Because it wants to appear as a bastion of good and justice in the world, as well as export such false goodness about itself such as the 'American Dream' etc. So it cannot do this and act evil at the same time. So it has to do things underhand.

The US also uses the UN as a bullying tool through which it forces its own policies. And when that doesnt work, it just ignors it, like it did with invading Iraq. It doesnt care less for the UN, nor for that matter anyone or anything else, you and me included.

Its funding to countries is basically support for its illigitimate puppets it nurtures. Most of this 'funding' probably ends up lining the pockets of its puppets and their friends. Dont think that the people receive much.

Regarding Michael Moore (thanks for the spelling hint), documentaries dont lie. They are factual filiming. If you think they lie, then prove it. I challenge you on that too.

Regarding Palestine, imagine that your country america , is invaded and occupied by certain people. And they decide to setup a state their, and kick the american inhabitants out from their land. Would you be willing to recognise that state, or would you be working tirelessly to remove the occupation by any means that you can??? Its not hard to know what any upstanding citizen would do.

A traitor may collaborate with the occupiers, and a freedom fighter would happily die for freedom of his country and to kick out the invaders. I hope that answers that question.

Also , when you hear them say in the news 'the occupied territories', now you know who is the occupier and who is the occupied. An...

Regarding Palestine, imagine that your country america , is invaded and occupied by certain people. And they decide to setup a state their, and kick the american inhabitants out from their land. Would you be willing to recognise that state, or would you be working tirelessly to remove the occupation by any means that you can??? Its not hard to know what any upstanding citizen would do.

A traitor may collaborate with the occupiers, and a freedom fighter would happily die for freedom of his country and to kick out the invaders. I hope that answers that question.

Also , when you hear them say in the news 'the occupied territories', now you know who is the occupier and who is the occupied. And I hope you will now be with the occupied against the occupier.

Will you? I hope so.

I can't believe you're calling yourself a 'thinking' person and you believe such illogical stuff. If US really controlled oil prices - why do you think the US would have them go sky-high. Before you blurt out the next inconsistency about the government profiting from rise in prices - here's the follow up - why would they have them come down? You see, we've had a number of very inopportune times when the oil prices went up - it made no sense from your viewpoint to do so. NONE!

If US was as evil as you claim - why would it want to make itself look as a bastion of good whatever? It makes no sense. NONE!

As for 9/11 reference, you can watch (missed the link last time) [url=http://www.amazo...

I can't believe you're calling yourself a 'thinking' person and you believe such illogical stuff. If US really controlled oil prices - why do you think the US would have them go sky-high. Before you blurt out the next inconsistency about the government profiting from rise in prices - here's the follow up - why would they have them come down? You see, we've had a number of very inopportune times when the oil prices went up - it made no sense from your viewpoint to do so. NONE!

If US was as evil as you claim - why would it want to make itself look as a bastion of good whatever? It makes no sense. NONE!

As for 9/11 reference, you can watch (missed the link last time) Fahrenhype 9/11, it's another documentary. Just because someone can run around and film something - doesn't make it so. Like I said, let's leave these biased references out for the sake of this debate.

In terms of palestine - let's not suppose anything... why don't you read what I said and answer a simple question? So, the question is - do palestinians truly want their own state and peace, or do they want to kill all the Jews and this isn't about land or peace or anything of the kind?

I'm still waiting on your thinking regarding the reasons and details of why USS Cole was attacked, as well Cobart Towers. So far - you're not making any logical sense, so forgive me if I don't convert on the spot - you have to make sense to be able to convert someone, not just spew ideology.

Once you answer my questions, we can move on to the next topic - islam being called 'religion of peace' by some. I...

In terms of palestine - let's not suppose anything... why don't you read what I said and answer a simple question? So, the question is - do palestinians truly want their own state and peace, or do they want to kill all the Jews and this isn't about land or peace or anything of the kind?

I'm still waiting on your thinking regarding the reasons and details of why USS Cole was attacked, as well Cobart Towers. So far - you're not making any logical sense, so forgive me if I don't convert on the spot - you have to make sense to be able to convert someone, not just spew ideology.

Once you answer my questions, we can move on to the next topic - islam being called 'religion of peace' by some. I presume you being such a believer read the holy book, so you should have some answers on this topic. I've never read it and based on what I've seen done in the name of what the book preaches - highly unlikely that I'll ever would, but you can enlighten with your knowledge.

So again, please explain how and why the US plan, as you claim, included attacks on the USS Cole, WTC'93 and Cobart Towers? If this was an islamist extremists doing it and US letting them - why those targets (i.e. why not let this character that wanted to blow up LAX do it in 2000 as he planned, to name one incident we know for a fact that happened).

Man.

You need to know what the US policy in that region in order to answer that question about Oil. The US has plenty of oil itself and so doesnt need oil. But what is wants and does need is CONTROL of oil, world wide. So if it wanted the prices to increase it can do it. And if it wanted it to decrease it can do it. By controlling the main energy supply to the world it puts itself in superpower status and no country can touch it. This way it asserts its dominance on the world. Do you see?

The way it steals from these countries is by having its companies dig up the oil and run the oil refineries and so on. As well as sell the US manufactured goods eg cars and such like to that regiion. M...

Man.

You need to know what the US policy in that region in order to answer that question about Oil. The US has plenty of oil itself and so doesnt need oil. But what is wants and does need is CONTROL of oil, world wide. So if it wanted the prices to increase it can do it. And if it wanted it to decrease it can do it. By controlling the main energy supply to the world it puts itself in superpower status and no country can touch it. This way it asserts its dominance on the world. Do you see?

The way it steals from these countries is by having its companies dig up the oil and run the oil refineries and so on. As well as sell the US manufactured goods eg cars and such like to that regiion. Making them consumers and making the US manufacturers for that region. They dont allow them to manufacture anything and so keep them as markets for companies to make profits out of. For example have you heard of a Suadi manufactured Car at all? Or any Muslim manufactured Car? If not then how come?

Ali, you're not really addressing any of the points or questions I bring up. I'm not going to repeat your question about how well you know English, so I'm going to assume you're just avoiding things either due to dislike of the questions at hand or something else. It's kind of difficult to discuss something when that something becomes something else all the time.

Based on your intimate knowledge of US policies and procedures - are all the muslims as astute on the subject as you are? If so - why can't they do their own thing, and create their own destiny, build their own products, become independent of the West? Why are all muslim nations so poor? Ok, maybe not all are, just most, so why...

Ali, you're not really addressing any of the points or questions I bring up. I'm not going to repeat your question about how well you know English, so I'm going to assume you're just avoiding things either due to dislike of the questions at hand or something else. It's kind of difficult to discuss something when that something becomes something else all the time.

Based on your intimate knowledge of US policies and procedures - are all the muslims as astute on the subject as you are? If so - why can't they do their own thing, and create their own destiny, build their own products, become independent of the West? Why are all muslim nations so poor? Ok, maybe not all are, just most, so why not immigrate, if you have to, to a place like UAE, why move to UK or US? You claim that our government is this horrible even entity and so are yours... and you move here because the life in your countries sucks and in ours it's better. You claim that the West has plundered and raped arabia... why is that? Why not do the same to any other places?

You're right about US having oil reserves... we certainly do, and there's a perfectly legitimate reason why they aren't being used. As for that making US a superpower - you got that one totally wrong. There are countries that have a heck of a lot more oil than we do and they're nowhere near the superpower status, so your theory doesn't hold water there.

If US really did assert its dominance, the pipsqueak of Iran and the commie idiot of Venezuela wouldn't exist in this world, but they do. We wouldn't have to pay $3/gallon of gas, we'd just come and take it, but we don't. We wouldn't care less about UN and finance more than a fifth of its budget, yet we do and we still go there to try and do something diplomatically.

Anyway, let's get back to the topics we discussed earlier. I'd like to get your responses to the points that I raised.

1. Well, let's start with relevance of 1993 WTC bombing, then the Cobart Towers and USS Cole? Why those particular targets and who was responsible for these terrorist acts and why, in your opinion?

2. Why wouldn't palestinians drop their terrorist ways, recognize Israel as their neighbor (cause it's kind of difficult to ask a nation to give you money when you don't acknowledge the existence of the nation), go to UN and ask for assistance from the world body to build their own country?

3. While we're on the subject of palestinians - can you explain how the business with sending your kids to die by blowing themselves up is anything positive? We know it accomplishes nothing in terms of thei...

1. Well, let's start with relevance of 1993 WTC bombing, then the Cobart Towers and USS Cole? Why those particular targets and who was responsible for these terrorist acts and why, in your opinion?

2. Why wouldn't palestinians drop their terrorist ways, recognize Israel as their neighbor (cause it's kind of difficult to ask a nation to give you money when you don't acknowledge the existence of the nation), go to UN and ask for assistance from the world body to build their own country?

3. While we're on the subject of palestinians - can you explain how the business with sending your kids to die by blowing themselves up is anything positive? We know it accomplishes nothing in terms of their cause for having a country, getting assistance from other nations. Is it something the holy book preaches? Do they actually want a nation and peace... or is it simply about killing all of the Jews?

Afraid of who? You? I could tell from your non responses that debating you isn't much different than debating a tree... but now you're beginning to show us your comedic side... that last question of yours almost prompted a LOL response.

Why would anyone be afraid of a hypocrite, who beats his chest about a totally twisted and insane ideology, dissing nations he has no clue about, yet runs to live in one of those nations. Why would someone be afraid of someone who's suppose to be human, yet has no appreciation for life, his or others. Someone who points out to videos with supposed abuse of children, yet totally willing to send own to blow themselves up. Someone who can't intelligently a...

Afraid of who? You? I could tell from your non responses that debating you isn't much different than debating a tree... but now you're beginning to show us your comedic side... that last question of yours almost prompted a LOL response.

Why would anyone be afraid of a hypocrite, who beats his chest about a totally twisted and insane ideology, dissing nations he has no clue about, yet runs to live in one of those nations. Why would someone be afraid of someone who's suppose to be human, yet has no appreciation for life, his or others. Someone who points out to videos with supposed abuse of children, yet totally willing to send own to blow themselves up. Someone who can't intelligently answer some simple questions, yet claims to be a thinker.

I only let this charade go for a little while to simply expose who you really are, although it was pretty evident from your other posts. The questions posed were certainly valid, but your non answers clearly showed that people like you don't have anything dear, don't have any morals and can't be reasoned with.

Nobody's afraid of you or to debate you... you just need to brush up on your English and see what the definition of 'debate' is... and here's a little hint for ya - it's not a synonym for mindless & useless propaganda.

In case it may be of benefit to some people the answer to the last question of RS , regarding why it is said Islam is peace and then Muslims fight and resist occupation etc.

What people should know is that Islam is a complete WAY OF LIFE. ie its more than a religion. It has a political side as well as a spiritual side. And when it was dominant in the past in the form of the Islamic Caliphate or 'empire' its objective was to remove evil and replace it with Good, world wide. So those who hated it and still hate it most are the most evil of people. Because it is a big threat to them. So the US and UK governments should hate Islam extremely. Because it aims to remove them from power and save h...

In case it may be of benefit to some people the answer to the last question of RS , regarding why it is said Islam is peace and then Muslims fight and resist occupation etc.

What people should know is that Islam is a complete WAY OF LIFE. ie its more than a religion. It has a political side as well as a spiritual side. And when it was dominant in the past in the form of the Islamic Caliphate or 'empire' its objective was to remove evil and replace it with Good, world wide. So those who hated it and still hate it most are the most evil of people. Because it is a big threat to them. So the US and UK governments should hate Islam extremely. Because it aims to remove them from power and save humanity from their evil and terrorism as well as lies.

When evil is removed and replaced with Good, what results is peace. Under peace civilsation thrives. This is what happened in the Islamic empire, especially in the fields of science and this especially happened in Spain where people from the West came to be educated in Muslim universities. Quite the opposite of what happens today. Because Muslims have strayed away from true islam and veered into secularism and capitalism and forgot God Almighty. But as i said the revival is back, and you can see non muslims of all nationalities coming to Islam.

Examples of scientific thriving are words that the West now uses such as Al-Cohol, Al-Gebra , Al-Gorithm and all words beginning with Al are arabic. You can see more contributions at:
http://www.IslamicHeritage.com

Islam is not like christianity when it comes to science.

So because Islam's policy is to remove evil and repalce it with good, war is part of islam just as much as peace is. Because without force, evil will just take over, so it must be resisted and kicked out wherever it maybe.

Regarding Muslims today, there is no Caliphate or State really. Iran is the closest thing but even this is not how Islam was or should be. So what you see today are just Muslims resisting occupation and fighting back the occupier. And this would happen even if those people were not Muslim. It is just natural for the occupied to resist and kick out those who occupy them. And this is what the world is seeing. Chavez is against america, but he is not Muslim. And he calls for all countries to resist american terrorism, and yet he is not Muslim. Evil is naturally resisted by humanity and those who resist dont have to be religious. Communists resisted evil capitalism too. But their ideology was al...

Regarding Muslims today, there is no Caliphate or State really. Iran is the closest thing but even this is not how Islam was or should be. So what you see today are just Muslims resisting occupation and fighting back the occupier. And this would happen even if those people were not Muslim. It is just natural for the occupied to resist and kick out those who occupy them. And this is what the world is seeing. Chavez is against america, but he is not Muslim. And he calls for all countries to resist american terrorism, and yet he is not Muslim. Evil is naturally resisted by humanity and those who resist dont have to be religious. Communists resisted evil capitalism too. But their ideology was also evil.

Hope this paints a sort of clear picture of my understanding at least regarding some of the world politics today and the role of Islam in it.

Regards,
ali

I guess a logical follow up would be - if islam is a 'complete way of life' and there are so many muslims in the world - what's the problem with following the teachings? why are they (and you) go to live in the West, i.e. evil places?

No question that arabs have a great history of achievement... but we're talking centuries back. What have they done in the past, say, 100 years? Not counting terrorism, that is... What? You take a country like Israel, a tiny nation (compared to the islam-based populous), and you've got all kinds of medical innovations, scientific innovations, weapons, technology, a number of major Internet visionaries? Where are your people in any of these fields? Why is...

I guess a logical follow up would be - if islam is a 'complete way of life' and there are so many muslims in the world - what's the problem with following the teachings? why are they (and you) go to live in the West, i.e. evil places?

No question that arabs have a great history of achievement... but we're talking centuries back. What have they done in the past, say, 100 years? Not counting terrorism, that is... What? You take a country like Israel, a tiny nation (compared to the islam-based populous), and you've got all kinds of medical innovations, scientific innovations, weapons, technology, a number of major Internet visionaries? Where are your people in any of these fields? Why is that that your people, who according to you have the exact "way of life" described to them precisely - are in such poor shape worldwide, behind the rest of the civilized world not by years or decades, but by hundreds of years? If you have the answers to how things should be and you keep such disciplined rules - why do you have such crappy lives that you have to move to the countries of evil?

Have you ever heard of a small company named Google? Did you know it was started by a Jew? And now they just bought a breakthrough software ALgorithm from another Jew? How about ICQ or Yedda or Teva, just to name very few. What have you contributed to the world at large (you, personally)? Have you made any products or services to make other people's lives better? What do you do for a living in UK? Or are you collecting welfare like so many ingrates that come to the West? You take a journalist, who wants to bring your story to the masses, fool him into showing up for an interview and cut his head off and you think that's normal? No civilized human being would attempt to justify this in any way, shape or form. You have your definition of evil reversed.

Normal people avoid evil, not gravitate toward it like you do.