I'm not sure Obama would represent America, other than the Black segment of it. His church's beliefs says it all.

A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA

A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA

We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community. http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

Obama and his church members should decide on whether they are actually Americans or still consider themselves as African Slaves, which country do they pledge their alligence to?

I'm not a r...

I'm not sure Obama would represent America, other than the Black segment of it. His church's beliefs says it all.

A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA

A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA

We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community. http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

Obama and his church members should decide on whether they are actually Americans or still consider themselves as African Slaves, which country do they pledge their alligence to?

I'm not a racist, I have no problem with Obama's skin color but apparently he does. I have problems when people use race as a crutch, the same would apply for a white supremacy advocate running for president too.

I could use a hyphenated American term relating to my ancestry but I'm proud to refer to myself as an American. I do not do so to make any racist point, I'm an American regardless of the origin of my great, great grandparents. My grandfather was German, he too was proud to become an American, not a German-American. I do not hold any alligence to Germany simply because my grandfather was born and raised there. My grandmother was Cherokee and she too was an American plain and simple. I do not relate even in passing that I am part Cherokee Indian but have no disrespect or begrudge either Germans or Indians. I am an American, concerned with the plight of America, not Africa, Germany or any...

I could use a hyphenated American term relating to my ancestry but I'm proud to refer to myself as an American. I do not do so to make any racist point, I'm an American regardless of the origin of my great, great grandparents. My grandfather was German, he too was proud to become an American, not a German-American. I do not hold any alligence to Germany simply because my grandfather was born and raised there. My grandmother was Cherokee and she too was an American plain and simple. I do not relate even in passing that I am part Cherokee Indian but have no disrespect or begrudge either Germans or Indians. I am an American, concerned with the plight of America, not Africa, Germany or any place else for that matter. One of our main problems is with people coming here and refusing to assimilate into the American culture. Becoming an American does not mean you need to forget your roots however your priorities should shift, if not then you really shouldn't consider yourself as an American because you are not.

The point of this clip was in reference to Obama's race possibly playing so sort of role in his nomination or not. I simply stated I have concerns due to his affiliation with this church due its stance regarding people who are decendants from Africa.

My fear is that the rightwingers' vile attitudes about minorities and women will spill out in full force.

I also did not know I (the right) is so vile in regards to women and minorities. I assume the reason is that far-left hate groups speak so highly of everyone who dare not embrace their views, because they are so godly and we on the right is so evil.

I don't know who these people are who you say "re...

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The point of this clip was in reference to Obama's race possibly playing so sort of role in his nomination or not. I simply stated I have concerns due to his affiliation with this church due its stance regarding people who are decendants from Africa.

My fear is that the rightwingers' vile attitudes about minorities and women will spill out in full force.

I also did not know I (the right) is so vile in regards to women and minorities. I assume the reason is that far-left hate groups speak so highly of everyone who dare not embrace their views, because they are so godly and we on the right is so evil.

I don't know who these people are who you say "refuse to assimilate". Who are these people? You believe a myth. If someone didn't assimilate, it was because they weren't allowed to ("No Irish Need Apply", "N***er, Don't Let the Sun Go Down On Your Ass in _____", Native Americans having to carry green cards until 1973, the KKK, I could go on and on). But you'll also find if the initial immigrants fail to assimiate, their children will.

We have millions of illegals here who regard themselves as Mexicans, not Americans, they actually beleive and say that they will re-take Texas and California without firing a shot. These idiots do not care to assimilate, they want to annex these states to their country, they simply invade and overtake and congress and GWB looks the other way.

You may want to call it a myth but you are the one with blinders on not me. I simply point out the illegal mexican nationals since they are so many, however there are others from other countries that feel the same. Unfortunately the left and dopey GWB feel we actually owe these people something, we do not except one trip back home, by home I do not mean in the US.

I don't know how you go from talking about Obama to talking about illegal immigrants and someone's "allegiance." As far as I can tell and from everything I've heard him say, Obama's "allegiance" lies with AMERICA. However he certainly does not deny or ignore the fact that his father is indeed from Nigeria. Honestly I would be less inclined to vote for him if he were to deny his heritage.

To tell you the truth...I'm really having a hard time understanding your concept of "allegiance".

I am Black, African-American, whatever. I was born here, my parents and grandparents were born here, etc. I am an American citizen and I love America (faults and all). I also celebrate my Black heritage, howe...

I don't know how you go from talking about Obama to talking about illegal immigrants and someone's "allegiance." As far as I can tell and from everything I've heard him say, Obama's "allegiance" lies with AMERICA. However he certainly does not deny or ignore the fact that his father is indeed from Nigeria. Honestly I would be less inclined to vote for him if he were to deny his heritage.

To tell you the truth...I'm really having a hard time understanding your concept of "allegiance".

I am Black, African-American, whatever. I was born here, my parents and grandparents were born here, etc. I am an American citizen and I love America (faults and all). I also celebrate my Black heritage, however that does not mean I have some "allegiance" to Africa. It seems like you have a very rigid view of things.

To tell you the truth, Black Americans have very little in common with Africans. We are long removed from that culture and have since formed our own unique Black American culture here.

Nothings wrong with being proud of where you are from originally, but it should be more pronounced where you actually are. How many Polish, Russian Frence, Spainish, Germans,....you see refering to themselves as Polish Americans and so on?

As someone else on the thread pointed out, most people _don't_ assilimiate or self-identify as Americans, period, first when they're not allowed to. Obviously, it's harder to assimilate into the white male majority if one is black or female than if one is any flavor of European-American. (Although there's also still a ferocious hatred of Jews in this country, most of whom are white.)

When there is no more patriarchy, I will no longer feel the need...

Nothings wrong with being proud of where you are from originally, but it should be more pronounced where you actually are. How many Polish, Russian Frence, Spainish, Germans,....you see refering to themselves as Polish Americans and so on?

As someone else on the thread pointed out, most people _don't_ assilimiate or self-identify as Americans, period, first when they're not allowed to. Obviously, it's harder to assimilate into the white male majority if one is black or female than if one is any flavor of European-American. (Although there's also still a ferocious hatred of Jews in this country, most of whom are white.)

When there is no more patriarchy, I will no longer feel the need to identify as a feminist. When there is no more racism, I'm guessing, more blacks will feel it less necessary to indentify as black. For now, as you've pointed out, sexism/misogyny and racism are too prevalent for most of us to feel like we can fully let down our guard.

And so you know, it's as impossible for you to understand what it's like to be a woman living in the patriarchy as it is for me to understand, as a white woman, what it's like to live in a culture of racial discrimination.

I _wish_ black Americans didn't feel the need to promote black first, but I'm not even remotely qualified to comment or judge.

Frankly, I'm with John Lennon: I wish there were no religions, too

I'll summarize the case made by Dinesh D'Souza, himself an Indian immigrant, in his book, "What's So Great About America".

W.E.B. DuBois founded the NAACP for one (legitimate) reason: to oppose racism.
Booker T. Washington acknowledged racism, but also lamented the black cultural disadvantage. What good are rights without the ability to exercise those rights?
They both fought for equality of rights, and despite pockets of resistance, the movement succeeded...Brown v. Board, Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act, Fair Housing Bill, etc.

M.L.K. wanted blacks to be judged by their merits, not by the color of their skin. Problem is, equality of rights has not led to equality of results. ...

I'll summarize the case made by Dinesh D'Souza, himself an Indian immigrant, in his book, "What's So Great About America".

W.E.B. DuBois founded the NAACP for one (legitimate) reason: to oppose racism.
Booker T. Washington acknowledged racism, but also lamented the black cultural disadvantage. What good are rights without the ability to exercise those rights?
They both fought for equality of rights, and despite pockets of resistance, the movement succeeded...Brown v. Board, Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act, Fair Housing Bill, etc.

M.L.K. wanted blacks to be judged by their merits, not by the color of their skin. Problem is, equality of rights has not led to equality of results. Merit based systems are arguably the fairest, but they don't result in equality. On average, blacks do poorer in academic achievement and economic rise. So today, despite the success of equal rights, the movement hasn't progressed from DuBois to Washington.

This is the lasting remnants of racism still oppressing minorities some may claim. Yet this doesn't hold true for West Indians, Haitians, and Nigerians (all darker than "African-Americans"). They immigrate to the U.S. and see racism as episodic, not systematic and they diligently achieve their dreams.

So in short, there are 2 strategies: the immigrant strategy of assimilation of cultural aspects that lead to success, and the Jesse Jackson strategy of political agitation. There's no question which one works better...unless you're Jesse Jackson.

And so, Rustee, the question is, what happened between the 'bestowing' of rights on black Americans and the "lack of results"? Why does America on paper look so much better than America on the ground?
I absolutely believe that 'what happened' is white fright. Fear of the black race. That's why the Klan was formed right after the Civil War down in Tennessee - to keep newly-freed blacks "in their place". It's why after blacks began migrating north, yankee towns by the hundreds, if not thousands, set "sundown" ordinances, forbidding blacks to be within city limits after sundown. Some of these ordiances exist to this day in fact if no longer in law. It's why Jim Crow laws were passed in t...

And so, Rustee, the question is, what happened between the 'bestowing' of rights on black Americans and the "lack of results"? Why does America on paper look so much better than America on the ground?
I absolutely believe that 'what happened' is white fright. Fear of the black race. That's why the Klan was formed right after the Civil War down in Tennessee - to keep newly-freed blacks "in their place". It's why after blacks began migrating north, yankee towns by the hundreds, if not thousands, set "sundown" ordinances, forbidding blacks to be within city limits after sundown. Some of these ordiances exist to this day in fact if no longer in law. It's why Jim Crow laws were passed in the South. It's why blacks didn't really get the right to vote until passage of the 1965 Voting Rights Act.
White fright caused whites to flee the cities for the suburbs when a black family moved in, and caused banks not to approve mortgages for blacks seeking to move into those neighborhoods. Now we see the birth of the 'exurb' in America. How far away are whites gonna run from integration?.
And when whites left the cities for the suburbs, they took all their capital, businesses, and industry to the suburbs with them. Urban neighborhoods (black neighborhoods) fell into poverty, with all the misery that follows.
White fright is why today more blacks than whites are prosecuted for nonviolent drug offenses, while the majority of users is white. It's why blacks are more likely to be pulled over and searched. Why white high-school dropouts have a higher rate of employment than black high school graduates.
We white Americans need to wake the f*&% up to our part of the story of black America and where it has "failed".

Nothings wrong with being proud of where you are from originally, but it should be more pronounced where you actually are. How many Polish, Russian Frence, Spainish, Germans,....you see refering to themselves as Polish Americans and so on? Seems the only people who want to carry on dual citizenships are the ones who refer to themselves as African Americans.

What planet is still fool from? 40 million Americans claim Irish heritage, which is 10 times the population of Ireland. Many refer to themselves as Irish-American. Peace in N.I. would not have been possible if Bill Clinton didn't have all of them behind him it 'interfering' where the British Establishment saw it only as a ...

Nothings wrong with being proud of where you are from originally, but it should be more pronounced where you actually are. How many Polish, Russian Frence, Spainish, Germans,....you see refering to themselves as Polish Americans and so on? Seems the only people who want to carry on dual citizenships are the ones who refer to themselves as African Americans.

What planet is still fool from? 40 million Americans claim Irish heritage, which is 10 times the population of Ireland. Many refer to themselves as Irish-American. Peace in N.I. would not have been possible if Bill Clinton didn't have all of them behind him it 'interfering' where the British Establishment saw it only as a purely British affair.

This twit must not know that Africa is a continent. The white immigrants don't refer to themselves as European Americans. Black Americans do with good reason. The whites brought them to America as slaves, white mitigated against them being able to trace their ancestry. Hence the global term African American.

Are all whites not immigrants in America? The black former slaves surely have more right to a claim as Americas than the whites! Well only if some KKK member attempts to deny full citizenship to all of any colour who have qualified as citizens.
A white guy.

My point is one that Teddy Roosevelt made, he said it very well:

In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symb...

My point is one that Teddy Roosevelt made, he said it very well:

In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.

Just for dumba**l211

Some observations on Teddy Roosevelt.

Like most intellectuals of the era, Roosevelt believed in evolution. He saw the different races as having reached different levels of civilization (with whites at the top and blacks at the bottom). Every race, and every individual, was capable of unlimited improvement, Roosevelt felt. Furthermore, a new "race" (in the cultural sense, not biological) had emerged on the American frontier, the "American race," and it was quite distinct from other ethnic groups, such as the Anglo-Saxons. Roosevelt thought himself as Dutch, not Anglo-Saxon.

I'd also like to talk about this supposed "values degeneration" that has taken p...

Just for dumba**l211

Some observations on Teddy Roosevelt.

Like most intellectuals of the era, Roosevelt believed in evolution. He saw the different races as having reached different levels of civilization (with whites at the top and blacks at the bottom). Every race, and every individual, was capable of unlimited improvement, Roosevelt felt. Furthermore, a new "race" (in the cultural sense, not biological) had emerged on the American frontier, the "American race," and it was quite distinct from other ethnic groups, such as the Anglo-Saxons. Roosevelt thought himself as Dutch, not Anglo-Saxon.

I'd also like to talk about this supposed "values degeneration" that has taken place. Morons like dl211 like to pretend that everything was hunky dory in the past. Lynchings, racial and gender suppression, and discrimination never happened in the past. They live in a delusional world.

I am more than happy to be living in the here and now.

By the way:
German American Social Club
The National Italian American Foundation
Polish American Club
American Czechoslavakian Club

......and on and on and on........

Of course "American" is code for White Male and (most of the time) Protestant. The reason why they don't like "ethnic" politics its because they assume (incorrectly) that their culture is the "natural" baseline.

Assimilation means:

"You want in, be like us."

"We don't want to change, you change!"

"One is fine, more than one is to many."

Of course, anyone who has studied anything about the histories of cultures knows that so called assimilation goes both ways. Newcomers adapt, but in doing so change the group as well.

Its like in High School, where the Jocks or the top clique define for everybody else what it is to be cool, even though that definition is completely arbitrary and based...

Of course "American" is code for White Male and (most of the time) Protestant. The reason why they don't like "ethnic" politics its because they assume (incorrectly) that their culture is the "natural" baseline.

Assimilation means:

"You want in, be like us."

"We don't want to change, you change!"

"One is fine, more than one is to many."

Of course, anyone who has studied anything about the histories of cultures knows that so called assimilation goes both ways. Newcomers adapt, but in doing so change the group as well.

Its like in High School, where the Jocks or the top clique define for everybody else what it is to be cool, even though that definition is completely arbitrary and based on one principle:

"You just like us, your cool. Not like us, not cool."

As for links:


Sundown Towns

The Story of Roderick Gamble and Silk Littlejohn

Rammstein-Amerika

Confession of a Colorblin Man (My Confession)

I'll just say FU to BOOBY and to RAT, you both are a couple of idiots who obviously have the sole purpose of bashing anyone who's not aligned with your warped views on anything. Bobby the asshole has to jump in name calling to get my attention, well you got it again shithead.

A big FU to RAT, you don't have the right to question any American about America, which country are you from anyway? Probably ashamed of it since you don't list it and probably with good reason.

BOOBY - I sure as hell neither ask or require anything from your warped vapor locked little liberal degenerated mind, evidently you get delight following me around making snide remarks, shows your mentality you spineless w...

I'll just say FU to BOOBY and to RAT, you both are a couple of idiots who obviously have the sole purpose of bashing anyone who's not aligned with your warped views on anything. Bobby the asshole has to jump in name calling to get my attention, well you got it again shithead.

A big FU to RAT, you don't have the right to question any American about America, which country are you from anyway? Probably ashamed of it since you don't list it and probably with good reason.

BOOBY - I sure as hell neither ask or require anything from your warped vapor locked little liberal degenerated mind, evidently you get delight following me around making snide remarks, shows your mentality you spineless wonder, go suck some more far left a**, that's clearly all your good for anyway.

BobbyRutan:
Anyone can look through the comments on this clip and see who was the first to use an expletive slur on another clipper. Handjob ring a bell to you loser?

BobbyRutan:
He starts the name callings

The first personal insults on this clip, taking place BEFORE the word "handjob":

What planet is still fool from? -righthand

This twit -righthand

Is there not a minimum intelligence test for voting? Could this retard have a vote? -righthand

This bush-hugger -righthand

This bigot -righthand

-----
Only then did dl211 respond with some attacks on righthand and only on righthand.
-----

Then we have Bobby coming in with:

Just for dum...

BobbyRutan:
Anyone can look through the comments on this clip and see who was the first to use an expletive slur on another clipper. Handjob ring a bell to you loser?

BobbyRutan:
He starts the name callings

The first personal insults on this clip, taking place BEFORE the word "handjob":

What planet is still fool from? -righthand

This twit -righthand

Is there not a minimum intelligence test for voting? Could this retard have a vote? -righthand

This bush-hugger -righthand

This bigot -righthand

-----
Only then did dl211 respond with some attacks on righthand and only on righthand.
-----

Then we have Bobby coming in with:

Just for dumba**l211 - BobbyRutan

------------

BobbyRutan:
It's nice to have a selective memory as yours.

Seems you need to take a look in the mirror.

@BD

Good work, I specifically said an expletive slur which I consider handjob to be. Many people around here call people morons and idiots while not becoming is not in the same category (unless constantly used without provocation which is the first thing dl211 did upon showing up at clipmarks).

@dl211,

I'm only an ass because I don't allow you to be Bill O'Reilly. Somehow you think you own this place and set the rules when people can or can't respond and where they can go. As far as following you that is about the most ridiculous thing I have heard. Dulios is in my clipper list and I show up because him.

Furthermore I am glad you submitted that earlier discussion link. If anyone goes thr...

@BD

Good work, I specifically said an expletive slur which I consider handjob to be. Many people around here call people morons and idiots while not becoming is not in the same category (unless constantly used without provocation which is the first thing dl211 did upon showing up at clipmarks).

@dl211,

I'm only an ass because I don't allow you to be Bill O'Reilly. Somehow you think you own this place and set the rules when people can or can't respond and where they can go. As far as following you that is about the most ridiculous thing I have heard. Dulios is in my clipper list and I show up because him.

Furthermore I am glad you submitted that earlier discussion link. If anyone goes through it you will see that dl211 is the first person to use an expletive...... once again.

Anyone starts using expletives I'll escalate it. I'm not taking jack from conservative dips who want to be second rate Bill O'Reillys and Sean Hannitys.

This bigot -righthand

This doesn't do justice. I said ...

This bush-hugger should remember that grandfather Bush was a Nazi too. This bigot would do well to modify his writings.

...was the full quote. This was my restraining myself from referring to to Dl211's Nazi background and that people in obvious fascist glasshouses shouldn't throw racist stones against Obana.

@dl211Seems the only people who want to carry on dual citizenships are the ones who refer to themselves as African Americans.

and

@Dl211If the tables were turned and one of the GOP candidates attended a whites only church, he would be hammered relentlessly. Beleive it or not,...

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This bigot -righthand

This doesn't do justice. I said ...

This bush-hugger should remember that grandfather Bush was a Nazi too. This bigot would do well to modify his writings.

...was the full quote. This was my restraining myself from referring to to Dl211's Nazi background and that people in obvious fascist glasshouses shouldn't throw racist stones against Obana.

@dl211Seems the only people who want to carry on dual citizenships are the ones who refer to themselves as African Americans.

and

@Dl211If the tables were turned and one of the GOP candidates attended a whites only church, he would be hammered relentlessly. Beleive it or not, most churches here are segregated

To which my retort was ...

Could any of this be true? Religion is segregated, too? OMG. Burnings and hangings next? Is there not a minimum intelligence test for voting? Could this retard have a vote?

He failed to answer my questions, The background to this was his disgraceful attack on Debbiesky's sexuality and her husband followed immediately with an severe attack on a newbie. I certainly have no problem with anyone joining in, if they make it clear that in defending him, they are accepting his racist segregationist fascist remarks as applying to them or not. More anon.

@Dl211
I'm sorry for being so damn dense - know-it-all!

@righthand
Did some gobshite think for a second before typing these totally contrary ideas in the same sentence. Extrapolating the logic/stupidly would not enlighten this author/fool. We've seen samples of his putrid mind most recent in his foul attacks on Debbyski. Attacking her sexuality is clearly below the waist but it was his own represses sexuality that concerned me most.

In typical swiftboat tried and trusted manner, it is a newbie that gets his bile now. How many newbie have been lost to ClipMarks by these swiftboating tactics? Let us be thankful that there are so few swiftboaters left on [b]...

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@Dl211
I'm sorry for being so damn dense - know-it-all!

@righthand
Did some gobshite think for a second before typing these totally contrary ideas in the same sentence. Extrapolating the logic/stupidly would not enlighten this author/fool. We've seen samples of his putrid mind most recent in his foul attacks on Debbyski. Attacking her sexuality is clearly below the waist but it was his own represses sexuality that concerned me most.

In typical swiftboat tried and trusted manner, it is a newbie that gets his bile now. How many newbie have been lost to ClipMarks by these swiftboating tactics? Let us be thankful that there are so few swiftboaters left on ClipMarks and that truth and honesty will win the day.

The Return of the Swiftboaters

This was my restraining myself from referring to to Dl211's Nazi
background and that people in obvious fascist glasshouses shouldn't
throw racist stones against Obana.

What the hell makes you think I've got a Nazi background you ignorant SOB, just because of my grandfather? Just goes to show how a moron's brain really works overtime, I assume you feel everyone with German anchestory are Nazis, how brilliant you think you are. Evidently you're just too damn dumb to read something and comprehend it's meaning, guess it's your brain mixing it all up in it's far-left interpretations.

Racist, fascist, segregationist, apartheid remarks likely from a
fundamentalist, creatio...

read more»

This was my restraining myself from referring to to Dl211's Nazi
background and that people in obvious fascist glasshouses shouldn't
throw racist stones against Obana.

What the hell makes you think I've got a Nazi background you ignorant SOB, just because of my grandfather? Just goes to show how a moron's brain really works overtime, I assume you feel everyone with German anchestory are Nazis, how brilliant you think you are. Evidently you're just too damn dumb to read something and comprehend it's meaning, guess it's your brain mixing it all up in it's far-left interpretations.

Racist, fascist, segregationist, apartheid remarks likely from a
fundamentalist, creationist, Christian Zionist, bonehead. Previous
proof of being a chauvinist sexist bully. Probably badly sexually
frustrated, a deviant, and possibly a paedophile. Have I missed
anything?

Yes the most important point, that you rate right up there as one of the biggest, assholes here. What is your mindless point to the above, do you even have a clue? You ramble on like a teapot boiling over and all your dribble is meaningless.

In typical swiftboat tried and trusted manner, it is a newbie that gets his bile now.

That really made a lot of nonsense, guess I should be here longer before responding to attacks by morons, but hey, I didn't know there was a waiting period before one can respond to attacks by assholes.

So handjob - all I can really get out of all the useless rantings you spew out is that you really just want to correct everyones grammar and spelling, however you really shouldn't attempt even that when you make so damn many mistakes yourself, remember throwing stones and living in glass....you should get the point but maybe not, you are really dense there.

HandJob - same goes for you, if you don't like getting dumped on, quit slinging it, I can't be more plain that that, however with that brain of yours it most likely will be lost in the translati

Right on, Bobby. I am fascinated that through this whole thread our friend never did answer your question. If our friend had answered your question "no" then we could all just sit back and agree that it is indeed possible to hold multiple identities (Southerner, black, Greek, woman, gay, handicapped, New Yorker, immigrant, 2nd generation, etc, etc, etc....) and still be an American. I believe in many ways that our "hyphens" makes us a better nation, in that it shatters the mythology that America, her history, and her present, is white male (and I'll even say this for you, dl211, Yankee) America. The fact is while my Greek family makes lamb on Thanksgiving, and my Italian family makes rav...

Right on, Bobby. I am fascinated that through this whole thread our friend never did answer your question. If our friend had answered your question "no" then we could all just sit back and agree that it is indeed possible to hold multiple identities (Southerner, black, Greek, woman, gay, handicapped, New Yorker, immigrant, 2nd generation, etc, etc, etc....) and still be an American. I believe in many ways that our "hyphens" makes us a better nation, in that it shatters the mythology that America, her history, and her present, is white male (and I'll even say this for you, dl211, Yankee) America. The fact is while my Greek family makes lamb on Thanksgiving, and my Italian family makes ravioli, they both make turkey with stuffing as well. America!

BobbyRutan and ratilfar,

We're all guilty of making assumptions. I took no offense. Instead, I just found it fascinating.

I questioned a female friend about "outing" myself, wondering if I or my posts would seem more credible, if other clippers thought I was male. Or is that fair?

We're certainly seeing the issue of gender in our presidential race, and I've met more than one man in my travels who state they would not vote for a woman for president. A woman just doesn't fit their picture of the "leader of the free world."

And of course, the beginning of this whole thread, where I hoped that this presidential race would lead to real discussions about race and gender. We'v...

BobbyRutan and ratilfar,

We're all guilty of making assumptions. I took no offense. Instead, I just found it fascinating.

I questioned a female friend about "outing" myself, wondering if I or my posts would seem more credible, if other clippers thought I was male. Or is that fair?

We're certainly seeing the issue of gender in our presidential race, and I've met more than one man in my travels who state they would not vote for a woman for president. A woman just doesn't fit their picture of the "leader of the free world."

And of course, the beginning of this whole thread, where I hoped that this presidential race would lead to real discussions about race and gender. We've certainly been having a discussion!

As to Greece, I don't want to make assumptions about your age but Greece was under a military junta from 1967-1974.

UPDATED: Minister of church where Huckabee preached: "Ours is not the Constitution of America"

SPARTANBURG, S.C. (AP) - Republican Mike Huckabee spoke from the pulpit Sunday, not as a politician but as the preacher he used to be, delivering a sermon on how merely being good isn't enough to get into heaven....

On Sunday in South Carolina, Huckabee avoided politics entirely, instead preaching about humility and trusting in Jesus to open the gates of heaven.

"The criteria to get into heaven is you have to be not good, but perfect. That's the real challenge in it," he ...

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UPDATED: Minister of church where Huckabee preached: "Ours is not the Constitution of America"

SPARTANBURG, S.C. (AP) - Republican Mike Huckabee spoke from the pulpit Sunday, not as a politician but as the preacher he used to be, delivering a sermon on how merely being good isn't enough to get into heaven....

On Sunday in South Carolina, Huckabee avoided politics entirely, instead preaching about humility and trusting in Jesus to open the gates of heaven.

"The criteria to get into heaven is you have to be not good, but perfect. That's the real challenge in it," he said at First Baptist North Spartanburg, a megachurch with 2,500 members.

He avoided politics, except with a primary in South Carolina days away, it's all political, especially when you're addressing 2,500 would-be voters. His topic and his religious point of view clearly dovetails that of the pastor of First Baptist North Spartanburg, Donald Wilton, who has written a book on the afterlife and getting into to heaven.

Wilton also believes that Jesus subsumes the Constitution of the United States. Here's what he said at the Sourthen Baptist Convention just a year and a half ago:

Wilton delivered the annual convention sermon soon after Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice spoke to the assembly. He told the Southern Baptist gathering he greatly admired Rice, but he also reminded them they owed ultimate allegiance to God alone.

"I'm going to submit to you that as believers in Christ Jesus, we are not even of America," Wilton said. "We march according to a different drumbeat. Ours is not the Constitution of America; ours is the constitution of the Almighty God."

Does Mike Huckabee believe the same things as Donald Wilton on this issue as well? Why hasn't he been p