One thing everyone must know about Palin

I'd put that position up against Obama's post-birth abortion position any day.

9-8-2008 9:33 PM

You have that right. I just want to make sure that people know the facts. What they do with them is their business.

9-8-2008 9:33 PM

As the father of 1 girl, I agree with her.

9-8-2008 9:35 PM

Well, if you are interested in the facts, eg, then you should get the facts because your clip is misrepresentation of what she said in that debate. So, admit that you don't have a damn clue what the facts are.

It is astounding that you can clip something from Huffington post on the defense that you want people to know the facts. Stunning.

— Comment removed by clipper —

9-8-2008 9:42 PM

If these aren't the facts, then why did you state 2 minutes earlier that you agree with her? Are you saying that you agree with something she didn't say? If so, that seems odd.

9-8-2008 10:12 PM

I do agree with her (about what she actually said). The difference is that i know the "facts" and you apparently know how to cruise hate blogs in order to spew propaganda. This is why I made my follow up comment.

9-9-2008 6:10 AM

I think it's a fact that Palin would not support abortion even in case of a rape. As a rape survivor that offends me. As a woman that offends me. If Palin believes in the right to life that strongly then it's her business. But I don't think she has to right to legislate those beliefs.

9-9-2008 7:15 AM

shaor

well I think she is wrong, so very wrong!

9-9-2008 9:05 AM

pkronfield

As the probable father of three girls, I wholeheartedly agree with her!

9-9-2008 9:45 AM

As the mother of 2 girls, one an adult, I wholeheartedly do NOT support Palin's position. I don't want the Gov't to dictate such a personal moral choice.

9-9-2008 9:54 AM

cptenaud

pkronfield
As the probable father of three girls, I wholeheartedly agree with her!

So when are you going to find out you are the father.
Now there is a real moral decision.

9-9-2008 9:58 AM

As the mother of 2 girls, one an adult, I wholeheartedly do NOT support Palin's position. I don't want the Gov't to dictate such a personal moral choice.

But you support Obama's?

BTW, since when is the taking of human life a 'personal moral choice?'

9-9-2008 10:09 AM

I guess that if you equate abortion with "taking of human life" (which it seems you do), then it is a personal moral choice now...at least according to the Supreme Court of the United States. I assume that if McCain/Palin are elected, that will not be the case much longer.

9-9-2008 10:19 AM

ratilfar

If Obama is choice and does not reward rape, then yes, I support Obama's position. Now the whole infanticide thing that is a bs.

9-9-2008 1:11 PM

Now the whole infanticide thing that is a bs.

No, it is part of Obama's voting record.

at least according to the Supreme Court

Slavery used to be fine according to the Supreme Court, but that didn't make it right.

9-9-2008 1:14 PM

ratilfar

Proof?

9-9-2008 2:09 PM

since when is the taking of human life a 'personal moral choice?'

Determining when life begins is scientific; before the brain stem is formed, there is no consciousness. There is no person. The extremists seek to overrule that, and determine for everyone when life begins from a theological perspective only and make it the law of the land.

I don't agree with the partial-birth abortion, and am still kind of confused about how Obama sees it. But he is still much less dangerous from his end than from the morality police (aka, GOP).

9-9-2008 3:05 PM

Determining when life begins is scientific

Right. And it is real simple. Life begins at conception.

efore the brain stem is formed, there is no consciousness. There is no person.

But you choose to obfuscate the facts by trying to interject your beliefs of when a human being becomes a person. You believe religious beliefs should have no place in the law of the land, but you think your beliefs are superior to those silly Christians and should over ride science. Fact is, your beliefs, religious or not, are no more relevant than anyone else's beliefs. But when something is so clear cut scientifically, science should trump all beliefs.

9-9-2008 3:50 PM

Life begins at conception.

Scientifically, life, i.e. a living group of cells with the genetic map to create a human being has begun. That is correct.

But that's not what is being emphasized. It's about when a human being is present, which would not occur until such time as the brain and stem are developed enough to create a consciousness.

9-9-2008 3:51 PM

But you choose to obfuscate the facts by trying to interject your beliefs of when a human being becomes a person.

Back at ya, kiddo. Which is why the law of the land concerning this issue should not be based on theology.

9-9-2008 7:48 PM

This entire thread and following comments are based on egoldstein's and Huffington's post need to present lies. Now we have a discussion based on the lies egoldstein is intent on spreading.

As the question was posed to each candidate during this debate, it was framed as a personal choice. It is the personal choice that fascist-progressives like egoldstein despise.

Palin responded to the question framed under a person scenario this way: "I would choose life".

9-9-2008 7:59 PM

So where did i spread a lie? I believe that her opinion on this issue is material and think it's important that people know it as they form an opinion of her. For some this will cause them to like her more and for others it won't.

Why are you getting all bent out of shape about me clipping something that is 100% fact and stating that i think it's important for people to know.

9-9-2008 9:06 PM

Why are you so intolerant of someone who would choose life? By the way, only leftist fascists presume they can decide issues for their others, even their own daughters. The personal nature of her individual choice and the preference of her daughter's choice says nothing of the unconditional support and love for her daughter regardless of the choice.

9-9-2008 11:27 PM

laceym

Can we ban the clipping of the huffington post on clipmarks? I'm as liberal as they come but this site is just as bad as the world net daily (can we ban that too?).

9-9-2008 11:44 PM

EnvoyPV

Willhelm: my intent when I clip is often to provoke someone to go to the full page/article that I'm referencing. I don't think cursing at someone for the editorial decision they make in their clipping is very productive to good discourse. It would be a different story if the context was not immediately available, in which case it would be a clear case of misquoting someone.

egoldstein: I just wonder if you got the reactions/comments you'd anticipated.

9-9-2008 11:53 PM

Somewhere around 60% of all fertilized human ova naturally fail to come to term. Who's responsible for those? That makes nature - or god - the biggest abortionist of all.

9-9-2008 11:55 PM

arifsali

laceym, I second that sentiment, not the ban, but huffpo has turned out to be a trash political tabloid of extreme junk, and I consider myself a liberal.

9-9-2008 11:59 PM

laceym, the only sites we don't allow public clips from are hubpages and squidoo. Though not all clips from those sites are spam, we observed that a very large percentage of them were.

EnvoyPC, quite honestly, i'm not sure what i anticipated. i certainly know that this is a very controversial, heated issue, so i knew it had potential to insight strong, passionate comments from both points of view. For the most part, i think most of the comments on this clip have been constructive and insightful.

The most amazing thing to me about this issue is how each side can't fathom how the other side believes as it does.

9-10-2008 12:50 AM

swampfoxz

I'll make this short.Abortion is probably the toughest decision a woman will make in her life and no man or government without first hand responsibility therein has any say in the matter.Of course I am a man and perhaps that voids my opinion.

9-10-2008 5:13 AM

It's funny how everyone seems to get their pants in a bunch over this comment. The woman made the comment about HER preference for her daughter. She hasn't stated anything about legislating anything, simply offered her PERSONAL take on the subject. What is the big deal? If she actually becomes a VP - she will NO legislative authority to enact any laws. Even if she becomes a President - she still won't.

Eric, I don't quite understand what you're trying to say here... you support your daughters' right to an abortion and that's certainly your personal preference/right, based on your beliefs, and that's fine. Just as what her preference is for her family. It's exactly the same thing, just...

9-10-2008 9:36 AM

RecordSage, I wish I had your optimism. But the GOP would like nothing better than to overturn Roe vs Wade. If McCain/Palin get in and McCain's health gets worse and/or he is incapacitated, Palin's in. And she'd be appointing Supreme Court justices who would go that way.

9-10-2008 2:01 PM

@wiccantexan, considering the fact that half the country is feeling one way and half isn't - GOP has no chance of making this happen. That's the reality here. I agree with you that some of them would like to, but it's just not going to happen. For the record if my family was faced with a choice of having an abortion or not - my preference would be not to. However, if I had to vote on the subject, considering the fact that I don't have anatomy congruent with the subject at hand - I would certainly vote for it to be as it is right now.

As I mentioned - as impressive (for some) and scary (for others) Mrs. Palin is, regardless of her personal views - she won't have the ability to make thes...

9-10-2008 2:25 PM

RvW should be overturned. It was a bad ruling that never should have been made. It isn't the court's job to make law. Either congress should step up and pass a federal law dealing with the legality of abortion, or it should be left up to the states to pass their own laws. Either way, overturning RvW would NOT make abortions illegal. It would simply give the power to make laws regarding abortion back over to the law makers.

9-10-2008 2:29 PM

I wholeheartedly agree with Wicca RS. But I'd also like to say that abortion did not begin with Roe vs. Wade and since then the abortion procedure has become much safer. I think abortion is always a very painful and personal decision and the woman's to make after talking to her loved ones and her doctor. And I think the best way to reduce the number of abortions is to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies in the first place by family planing, sex education, condoms, and contraception.

9-10-2008 4:34 PM

ratilfar

It isn't the court's job to make law.

Have you heard of "Common Law"? Courts make law all the time, the US does not use the Napoleonic Law Code system, which is what you are describing. I don't know who came up with this nonsense, but obviously they don't know squat about jurisprudence.

9-10-2008 4:39 PM

I agree with you debbyski regarding the ways to minimize abortions and I do not believe it's the job of the state to dictate what a woman should or should not do, it's up to the woman to decide. Therefore there's absolutely nothing wrong with Eric wanting one thing for his daughters and Gov. Palin wanting the opposite. It's a personal decision and should NOT be legislated.

9-10-2008 6:41 PM

Here is one thing I DEFINITELY know about Sarah Palin that NOBODY can refute: on hearing hear name, huge numbers of people cannot avoid thinking "Monty Python"!

9-10-2008 8:13 PM

Only in your head Jorjor... only in your head.

9-10-2008 8:48 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf1y9s73Nos

I can't resist RS

9-10-2008 8:58 PM

RS, I'm not the first. Can't help it if you have no sense of humor. We now return to the original thread.

9-10-2008 11:48 PM

Let it loose debbyski... I won't hold it against you.

@jorjor, I read some of your comments... and laugh at times... which would mean that I must have it... oh wait, I'm laughing at your lacks... does that qualify? Was that funny? Probably not to you... but that's ok, I have one of those European/Russian senses of humor, with a dash of American mixed in. But that would be above your 'pay grade', so don't worry about it.

9-11-2008 3:33 PM

k00p2000

First of all, people are expressing their opinions on abortion, calling opinions lies is arbitrary considering that facts are categorized as either true or false and opinions are just that, - opinions.

Now for my opinion, I feel it is irresponsible to support abstinence only education while banning all abortions. Having received sexual education, I felt I was more prepared to protect my health and more likely to prevent unwanted pregnancies than if I had not received it. If all unwanted pregnancies are prevented, there wouldn't be a need for abortion!

Now imagine a close friend is raped and becomes pregnant. Carrying a pregnancy like that would be traumatizing, she would wake up every morn...

9-11-2008 5:57 PM

Let's say the rapist takes his dirty little hands and puts them around your throat like he did in my case and cuts off your air supply ever so violently. And then he whispers into your ear to take off your clothes. And you are so happy to comply ever so nicely while he ***** the **** out of you and then you are raw, bleeding, and your spirit is so broken. You blame yourself. And then the real fun starts. I'll gloss over the details but suffice it to say that I didn't sleep over 2 hours a night for about 3 months until I almost went into a major depression. And somehow, maybe the grace of God, I dunno, I overcame it before I had to be hospitalized. I somehow pulled myself...

9-11-2008 6:04 PM

What I want to know is, how many anti-abortion posters on this thread would adopt a special-needs child of rape, after making the mother go through with it. Palin has a stable financial situation and family support; so does her teen daughter. Easy for her to talk tough. But who is she to impose upon anyone else's choices?

9-11-2008 6:20 PM

Every day gets worse,
Locked in a vice my thoughts perverse
You must wonder why I look at you that way (In any way)
Tonight I'll make my way into your house
I must; I'm lusting for your body
Skin looks tight, think I just might have
To take a bite, but I know one will turn
To three or four or more, my little whore

Tonight, tonight
She's not alone (can you taste the wicked in the room?)
Bobbysoxer are so pure, so young
(By morning her soul will be gone, gone.)

I did a beautiful thing,
Relax baby, that's a good girl
You're like my work of art
I can control, I can contort any
Position that I wish,
I make my fantasy reality
Hold still, it will be over soon

Tonight, tonight
She's not alone (ca...

9-11-2008 7:30 PM

debbyski, you keep breaking my heart... I can't imagine anyone with a normal brain not follow your point or force you to raise a child under the described circumstances and I agree with wiccantexan totally about the financial & other issues surrounding such events (raising a kid).

However, I don't think Palin stand on abortion is relevant for her job, because regardless of what she believes and regardless of what she does - she alone will not and cannot change the abortion situation in the country.

I have to say that I very much appreciated her comment during the speech regarding special needs kids. I can't recall anyone in that position making those kinds of comments and that's certainly admirable.

9-11-2008 8:02 PM

debbyski thank you for sharing your story, that was very brave and moving. I think deep down McCain agrees with recordsage. He's just got to get the vote of the religious right to get elected. No other way can it happen. It is true that appointing a supreme court justice or two will be something a McCain/Palin presidency will most likely do. So R v W could be overturned with another Republican presidency, it's possible. If you research this issue, where abortion is illegal in almost all of South America, because those goverments also don't fund sex ed, there are more abortions per capita there. I choose to believe we're smarter than that. The religious right is not the majority of...

9-12-2008 1:16 AM

What's with you guys? NOBODY has overturned anything. You all talk like it's a given. It's as much a given as the immigration bill was... did that go through, despite the President being for it and bunch of other people? No, it didn't, and mostly due to public sentiments. Again, just because someone has certain ethics and beliefs - doesn't mean they'll be changing laws (although again, they couldn't even if they wanted to). Besides, even if someone does try to overturn R v W and succeeds - that would mean that the states themselves can vote to have abortion legalized.

It's just amazing how you get yourself all in a knot over a non-existing issue.

What I'd personally like to see is th...

9-17-2008 6:31 AM

RecordSage- Both McCain and Palin are on record saying R v W should be overturned. It has nothing to do with public sentiment like bills in Congress might. It has to do with who McCain appoints to the supreme court, and we can objectively assume he/she/they will be conservative. It's 4-3 against overturning R v W right now and at least one liberal judge will retire in the next 4 years. There's no getting in a knot, but rather reasonable logic and if it's a stated part of the neocon platform, then it's not a non issue to citizens who care about a womans right to privacy on this matter. I do agree with you that overturning R vW will not end legal abortions in the US.

9-19-2008 1:18 AM

@deb2012, Everyone in this country has a right to a view, they happen to have the one they have... doesn't mean necessarily that they will actively pursue such notion. They might or they might not. Personally, I do think it's a great idea for the states, the population in other words, to vote on it, not have Federal Government dictate one way or another. Regardless, even though I realize this is a hot issue for some women, it's certainly not the only issue that should be considered when it comes to picking the leaders of the country, it's a single issue.

Reasonable logic, as you indicated, doesn't include 'neocon platform' in the same sentence, since that comment alone negates the 'reaso...

9-19-2008 5:37 AM

Record Sage-I appreciate your comments and I concur, abortions in America will not be outlawed. The mechanism might change, and that is not automatically a bad thing or something the democrats should fear. I also have said many times and agree with your premise in the last paragraph that that every side of this issue is reasonable for a person to take based on their values, not their politics. The conservatives label us baby killers, life haters, and idiotic, which demeans our humanity. I don't get how the word neoconservative equates with idiotic.

9-19-2008 9:35 PM

Let's just say labels mean different things to different people and if you want to have a logical & reasonable discussion - they're meaningless. We'll leave it at that without engaging into qualifications of what's more or less valid.

I don't call you 'baby killer' and I am a conservative. I certainly appreciate your point of view, especially being a woman, that you'd like to have a choice when it comes to abortion. But, since we're on the course of logic & reason - it's not too far of a stretch to understand the other side which believes that a human is started at conception and then it's killed. This is what it is. Doesn't mean labels need to be applied, or clinics exploded (I'm comp...

9-19-2008 9:55 PM

Record Sage--you and I just found consensus- thanks for your wise comments.

9-20-2008 4:51 PM

9-22-2008 7:21 PM

Here is one thing I DEFINITELY know about Sarah Palin that NOBODY can
refute: on hearing hear name, huge numbers of people cannot avoid
thinking "Monty Python"!

Only in your head Jorjor... only in your head.

RecordSage, check this out - and it's by one of your right-wing idols at that.

9-22-2008 9:03 PM

Let's see, there are 42 character following your non-sense and 60,000 came out in Florida to listen to Gov. Palin. You do the math, get a life... you know...

9-22-2008 9:40 PM