 chestnut501 says: Obama's Invocation Choice is Far From "inclusive" Worst decision he's made so far. I real slap in the face to supporters. I'm hurt and disappointed. If people listened to the debates, the only thing Obama and McCain agreed upon was both did not support gay marriage, but this is even more unsettling. — Comment removed by clipper — I don't get it. There were other ways to display openness to the Christian right that wouldn't have been so grotesquely malformed. I guess this is the cure for his comment about guns and religion. It does work for me, in fact, I find it pretty scary. There is some major sucking up to do in the years ahead. Debbyski, That's a great post from Mother Jones. As Kevin Drum points out, Rick Warrens words speaks for themselves....and for him. I feel that the Christian right will always hate the Obama's of the world and the gays and lesbians who are being deprived of basic civil rights so I don't understand Obama reaching out to someone like Warren; there should be a hand reaching back. Insecure groups have always persecuted others in a misguided attempt to strengthen their positions. Rational people should always battle this because there is no common ground. Had the hero's of civil rights taken Obama's strategy, an Obama Presidency would not have been possible. He couldn't be more wrong on this issue and he should be held accountable for it. — Comment removed by clipper — Chestnut, I wanted to reply to your comment which I thought was really good, but it's removed? I don't understand why. Anyway, I just wanted to say that I totally agree with you about giving Obama the benefit of the doubt and I think one of the most important civil rights of the times is the movement for equal rights for gays. Oh, debbyski, Your timing is great  Anyway, since you summed it up so well, I won't bother to put it back up. Thanks I don't understand Obama reaching out to someone like WarrenMaybe Obama is not pulling the strings anymore. Obama seems not to be as talkative as he once was. I saw the Rick Warren interview. I'm not a right wing supporter, far from it, but I didn't see what he was saying as damning. I was surprised to see how much his church had contributed in the cause of Aides research. It didn't seem like he would be opposed to a "civil union". It's redefining the definition of marriage, which I have to agree should be between a man and a woman, just as it has been for 5,000 years in multiple countries and religions. I have no objection to a civil union and the gay community needs to realize that marriage is a "tradition", which is a union between a man and a woman. Eventually "civil union" will become a "tradition", which means a union between people of the s... ncoutlander, Let me start off by saying that I am just as confused by your resistance as you are to my insistence. So far, I have not heard what I consider a good reason for Gays to not enjoy all the benefits of marriage. I'm sorry, but saying that it's been done that way for 5,000 years just doesn't cut it with me. How many things can one think of that hasn't changed in 5,000 years? Everything changes. You wonder why Gays want to be able to be married? Well, I figure Heterosexuals know the answer to that or so many of them wouldn't be trying to keep it all to themselves. It must be pretty darn good. Most people who are opposed to Gay marriage do so for one of two reasons, or both, HATE or ... Look at it this way Ncountlander, Suppose it was suggested that inter-racial couples must only have "civil unions." To me, it is a matter of civil rights by denying gays marriage and trying to define a union between two consenting adults who love each other as "something else." Why does society insist that gays only be allowed to marry those they cannot be romantically attracted to? ncoutlander, From today's Yahoo news. "SAN FRANCISCO – A woman in the San Francisco Bay area was jumped by four men, taunted for being a lesbian, repeatedly raped and left naked outside an abandoned apartment building, authorities said Monday. Detectives say the 28-year-old victim was attacked Dec. 13 after she got out of her car, which bore a rainbow gay pride sticker. The men, who ranged from their late teens to their 30s, made comments indicating they knew her sexual orientation, said Richmond police Lt. Mark Gagan. "Anytime there is an anti-LGBT initiative, we tend to see spikes both in the numbers and the severity of attacks," he said. "People feel this extra entitlement to act out their prejudice." Although some friends and family know my orientation here I would not ever feel safe coming out where I live. The one time I have ever shown any small gesture of affection that wasn't behind closed doors (in a remote area in a public park with no one present and someone sped around the turn where cars weren't allowed) which was just holding hands briefly and it was so innocent, I was taunted. And I felt disgusted with myself that I chose to turn my back and drop her hand even though she said not to pay any attention and they didn't understand. I fit in the heterosexual world here. I'm married and no one would ever guess that I'm not straight and I make damn sure no one does becaus... Even though Michigan is a pretty decent place to be Gay, I spent most of my life in the most conservative town in the country. ( see my clip on "My Conservative Home Town"). So I have a feel for what you're saying. And even though I feel fairly safe where I am now, I still wouldn't display any public affection or anything else for that matter that would suggest that I'm gay, including hair cuts. I even carry a purse and can't imagine where I would put all my junk without it. I figure why ask for trouble. This works for me. It's a little difficult for me in that I'm not married and I don't feel that I completely fit into the heterosexual world but for the most part I'm comfortable in my own skin. — Comment removed by clipper — Oh holy freaking shit. That was my comment and cabanaben is going to get so f****** mad at me but it's his fault because he didn't log out and we share this computer. Will you delete it Chestnut? I'll copy and paste it below under my name. I understand your position completely on "not asking for trouble" but it still ticks me off that even innocent displays of affection cannot be shown by bisexuals or gays without fear of social disapproval or worse yet getting beat up. Almost all of my lesbian friends are "lipstick lesbians", and very feminine looking. No one would ever suspect and most are in a profession where it could damage their career if outed. We all respect each other here a... My "not asking for problems" in regards to my own personal affairs is not really a "position" I take. People have to do what works for them. I'm a very unique person even as a Gay person. I very much march to the beat of my own drummer. I've been fortunate enough to live a short distance from a place where I could be completely out and not have to worry too much about it. I was active in the community for several years during a time in my life when I needed to be celibate. In my daily routine of living, not asking for problems works for me. |
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