Tim Lynch of the CATO makes a good case for releasing at least 300 of the 400 children. There seems to be some crimes (against the state) but so far not any against the children.

The CPS is acting on "err in favor of the children" and I can appreciate that, but the really young ones, 3 and 4 years of age, should go back. It's not like they can testify anyway.

He doesn't talk about arranged marriages and such but I suspect the women of the group will have to speak up or forever hold their mouths if they have something to say about those setups.

The problem comes, of course, if they are too afraid to speak, for fear of not knowing anything "outside" the compound and that unknown being a gr...

Tim Lynch of the CATO makes a good case for releasing at least 300 of the 400 children. There seems to be some crimes (against the state) but so far not any against the children.

The CPS is acting on "err in favor of the children" and I can appreciate that, but the really young ones, 3 and 4 years of age, should go back. It's not like they can testify anyway.

He doesn't talk about arranged marriages and such but I suspect the women of the group will have to speak up or forever hold their mouths if they have something to say about those setups.

The problem comes, of course, if they are too afraid to speak, for fear of not knowing anything "outside" the compound and that unknown being a greater fear than the one inside.

But Tim is right. At least one has to speak up.

Yes, and his point in particular is all about THE LAW, i.e. what legal case does the government really have beyond their own, and CPS, very bias "suspicions"? If polygamy is against the law, then they should proceed on that basis. But to prove abuse of children, his compelling argument is, the State CANNOT say that the absence of their complaint is in fact some kind of evidence that proves abuse, which tramples the laws of jurisprudence. Suspicion does not make evidence of criminality, nor does "odd" beliefs. (See the new Clipmark on the Texas Sect "Abused Teen" Caller a Fraud).

What some people consider abusive, some do not, and the case hinges on THE LAW, not on majority public opinio...

Yes, and his point in particular is all about THE LAW, i.e. what legal case does the government really have beyond their own, and CPS, very bias "suspicions"? If polygamy is against the law, then they should proceed on that basis. But to prove abuse of children, his compelling argument is, the State CANNOT say that the absence of their complaint is in fact some kind of evidence that proves abuse, which tramples the laws of jurisprudence. Suspicion does not make evidence of criminality, nor does "odd" beliefs. (See the new Clipmark on the Texas Sect "Abused Teen" Caller a Fraud).

What some people consider abusive, some do not, and the case hinges on THE LAW, not on majority public opinion about how to raise children. To suggest that marriages are "forced" is inflammatory, and to push the logic that therefore it is forced sex, i.e. rape, is a presumptuous leap and absurd on the face, since the marital relationship, particularly absent marks of violence, hardly lends claims to rape without evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. Again, we hear little talk about the polygamy (why?), which if illegal would be simple to prosecute, but rather alot of "abuse" charges of children without evidence or substantiation. CPS and Texas has some explaining to do, and instead of inflammatory claims should stick to the law and evidence only, which is not being done.

The legal precedent where the State arbitrarily defines everything from "brainwashing" and "emotional abuse" (as Lynch points out) opens Americans up to a form of new Inquisitional powers that are a threat to liberty of conscience and separation of Church and State. (This writer denounces the doctrines and teachings of this group as an anti-Christian cult which smacks of Mormonism and its twin Freemasonry, that contain elements of Judaism, but believes only the law has power to prosecute, not public opinion).

Yes; that's what I was commenting on, the podcast. I heard it before making a reply.

And I'm not saying you or he is wrong. In fact based on what Timothy was saying, he's got a great point.

But I think the stance of the CPS is that when a child calls and asks for help, it would be far worse for CPS to ignore it until conclusive evidence is in.

They have to err on the side of child safety.

Had the call been legit and they did nothing, pending further evidence, and something happened to the child when acting could have prevented it, they'd be at least partially liable for negligence if not for complete dereliction of professional duty. It's their job!

So I can't blame CPS but I do agre...

Yes; that's what I was commenting on, the podcast. I heard it before making a reply.

And I'm not saying you or he is wrong. In fact based on what Timothy was saying, he's got a great point.

But I think the stance of the CPS is that when a child calls and asks for help, it would be far worse for CPS to ignore it until conclusive evidence is in.

They have to err on the side of child safety.

Had the call been legit and they did nothing, pending further evidence, and something happened to the child when acting could have prevented it, they'd be at least partially liable for negligence if not for complete dereliction of professional duty. It's their job!

So I can't blame CPS but I do agree that most of those children should be returned. At least the very young kids.

Update: yesterday

from another clip:

31 Of 53 Teen Girls Taken From FLDS Polygamist Compound Have Children Or Are Pregnant, Officials Say

A total of 53 girls between the ages of 14 and 17 are in state custody after a raid 3½ weeks ago at the Yearning For Zion Ranch in Eldorado. Of those girls, 31 either have children or are pregnant, said Child Protective Services spokesman Darrell Azar. Two are pregnant now, CPS officials have said in court; it was unclear whether either of those two already have children.
"It shows you a pretty distinct pattern, that it was pretty pervasive," he said.

State officials took custody of all ...

Update: yesterday

from another clip:

31 Of 53 Teen Girls Taken From FLDS Polygamist Compound Have Children Or Are Pregnant, Officials Say

A total of 53 girls between the ages of 14 and 17 are in state custody after a raid 3½ weeks ago at the Yearning For Zion Ranch in Eldorado. Of those girls, 31 either have children or are pregnant, said Child Protective Services spokesman Darrell Azar. Two are pregnant now, CPS officials have said in court; it was unclear whether either of those two already have children.
"It shows you a pretty distinct pattern, that it was pretty pervasive," he said.

State officials took custody of all 463 children at the ranch controlled by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, saying a pattern of teen girls forced into underage "spiritual" marriages and sex with much older men created an unsafe environment for the sect's children.