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AtlLiberalfollowshare
11-12-2008 11:26 AM
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AtlLiberal says:
I miss the positive effect religion bestows in this tragic story. Reason alone would seem to dictate that the family should end this nightmare and try to get on with their lives. What possible reason could there be to continue to artificially prolong what appears to be, at this point, a ghoulish action without any conceivable productive outcome.
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11-12-2008 11:42 AM
polymath22
Gotta be 'right', even when you are wrong.
11-12-2008 1:18 PM
masbury
Right, poly. It's the central conflict of Jesus with the religious culture of his day (and ours, I believe): which is more important - being "right" or being good?
11-13-2008 1:45 AM
Oortcloud
It's the biggest failure of religions, particularly Christianity - the inability to admit when it is wrong.
11-13-2008 10:19 AM
AtlLiberal
It's the biggest failure of religions, particularly Christianity - the inability to admit when it is wrong.
And therein lies the tragic irony. It is at once its failure and its strength. Religious people seem to have this need to be able to depend on a set of beliefs that is never changing. Regardless if this need runs contrary to reality, changing morals, scientific advances, shifting demographics. In fact, given the onus of faith, theists actually feel vindicated when they must choose a path which conflicts with the real world as an example that their beliefs are eternal, god given and always correct. Of course this skewed thinking, disregarding facts provided to them, only...
11-13-2008 12:28 PM
wiccantexan
Religious people seem to have this need to be able to depend on a set of beliefs that is never changing.
Abrahamic religions do, but not all religious people as a whole.

Yes, I have a theme today.
11-13-2008 1:05 PM
AtlLiberal
Yes, I have a theme today.
LOL! It seems you do!

OK. Perhaps Buddhists could skirt around the faith issue. But it seems to me that any religion that is based on the supernatural must at the same time be faith based since the supernatural, being defined as beyond the natural, requires faith to sustain it. How could it be otherwise?
11-13-2008 1:07 PM
deadcowkid
This is why every one should have their affairs in order and your advance directive posted on the fridge.
This kind of thinking really gets me upset. I just watched and helped as my Grandma as she died at home as we gave her as much comfort as legally possible. She was catholic but had her orders not to be resuscitated or left on a machine. She was 96. Other relatives fought to come get her and keep her alive in the hospital. Because her paperwork was in order, she died exactly as she wished, at home with no measures to revive her, only keep her as comfortable as possible. I couldn't help thinking if it was me laying their for 4 days, i would like other options then we have now.
Thanks for an important clip.
11-13-2008 1:20 PM
wiccantexan
any religion that is based on the supernatural must at the same time be faith based since the supernatural, being defined as beyond the natural, requires faith to sustain it.
Perhaps, if the religious person believed that "supernatural" was real. I don't. ALL is natural, though not all is known or understood. I don't believe in a supernatural.
11-13-2008 1:27 PM
AtlLiberal
Thanks for an important clip.
You're welcome and let me say I'm sorry for your loss.

Yes, it is important to let your relatives know what your wishes are. Even given that, all possibilities are not possible. And many of the restrictions are theistic in nature.

Ah, wiccantexan, doesn't this feel like deja vu all over again. Anyhow, give me a specific example of a wiccan belief that you hold that falls into the category of not known or understood. It sounds somewhat like you're just redefining "supernatural". Let me know if I'm wrong.
11-13-2008 1:43 PM
deadcowkid
Thanks, its sad to loose someone but I am glad she is no longer suffering. But in all honesty, as hard as it was, I felt what we did was one one the most compassionate things you can do for someone, legally. Thanks goodness for hospice.

You very correct that even with an advance directive, telling your wishes to relatives, anything could happen. I am staying out of the religious debate for now. I have had far too many for this humble non-religious person feel the need to have more. The reason I say to have your advance directive on the fridge is, in most if not all states, when the ambulance or firemen come, they will do everything they can to revive you unless the legal documents are po...
11-13-2008 1:51 PM
AtlLiberal
To this day reviving that man over and over took its toll on my good friend.
How sad. We focus on the dying and their family but don't pay attention to the health care workers that are involved. Thanks for pointing this out.
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