I find it extremely sad that anyone would believe that by "accident" a being should "evolve" that is aware of it's existence, has a clear understanding of the universe around him, then to know he will die and go into oblivion.

Find it sad that anyone would believe, or find it sad that it's true?

But this is why Horgan left the religion, the lack of truth in place of wishful thinking, which if not true could hardly pass for knowledge and thus enlightenment.

No other living creature has this ability or curse.

Surely that was a simple mistake, right?

But look on bright side. Through science we are rapidly gaining the understanding to eventually make the human...

I find it extremely sad that anyone would believe that by "accident" a being should "evolve" that is aware of it's existence, has a clear understanding of the universe around him, then to know he will die and go into oblivion.

Find it sad that anyone would believe, or find it sad that it's true?

But this is why Horgan left the religion, the lack of truth in place of wishful thinking, which if not true could hardly pass for knowledge and thus enlightenment.

No other living creature has this ability or curse.

Surely that was a simple mistake, right?

But look on bright side. Through science we are rapidly gaining the understanding to eventually make the human race virtually immortal.

What our ancestors could only dream about through religion, science is making rapid progress towards becoming a reality. It takes real actual knowledge to do that, not wishful or superstitious thinking.

And even though it won't happen in our lifetime, it is true hope for humans. And on the way up that path we are learning how to deal with each other and the universe around us. And that's why truth is so important. It makes us better off in the long run.

But look on bright side. Through science we are rapidly gaining the
understanding to eventually make the human race virtually immortal.

Science will help man master the universe.
Big deal.
If it is true that there is no afterlife, then none of us will give a hoot when we are dead. Why spend your life striving for the the survival of the fittest when no one will care when you're dead? We love mankind sooo much that we even sacrificed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis for the cause. We can't even tell when our rulers are lying to us. How the hell are we going to accomplish immortality?


Now you can die knowing that Science and the Pentagon took a good chunk of the taxes you pa...

But look on bright side. Through science we are rapidly gaining the
understanding to eventually make the human race virtually immortal.

Science will help man master the universe.
Big deal.
If it is true that there is no afterlife, then none of us will give a hoot when we are dead. Why spend your life striving for the the survival of the fittest when no one will care when you're dead? We love mankind sooo much that we even sacrificed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis for the cause. We can't even tell when our rulers are lying to us. How the hell are we going to accomplish immortality?


Now you can die knowing that Science and the Pentagon took a good chunk of the taxes you pay every week, money that could have been better spent on quality time with the ones you love(potential memories lost forever). But instead, when we have nothing left to give, we put each other on a Prozac diet(an outgrowth of science).

There is no point in worshiping "logic", cuz you're gonna die anyway.

Science will help man master the universe.

Big deal.

If it is true that there is no afterlife, then none of us will give a hoot when we are dead.

Ah, you should have read the rest of it.

And besides, is life only meaningful for you if have immortality? The fact of death gives us the opportunity to understand how precious and important life, and our time, is.

There is no point in worshiping "logic", cuz you're gonna die anyway.

Then why worship superstition, ignorance, or imaginary beings? Science gives us advancement and gets us closer to the truth about our positions and lot in the universe. Utilization of logic, a means by whic...

Science will help man master the universe.

Big deal.

If it is true that there is no afterlife, then none of us will give a hoot when we are dead.

Ah, you should have read the rest of it.

And besides, is life only meaningful for you if have immortality? The fact of death gives us the opportunity to understand how precious and important life, and our time, is.

There is no point in worshiping "logic", cuz you're gonna die anyway.

Then why worship superstition, ignorance, or imaginary beings? Science gives us advancement and gets us closer to the truth about our positions and lot in the universe. Utilization of logic, a means by which we can gain truth, is not "worship". It's utilizing our minds to understand.

Faith in truth is infinitely better in the long run than cynical "we're all going to die anyway so lay down and give praise to an imaginary being in hopes of NOT dying after we're already dead."

We are alive now! So to advance the happiness and knowledge of ourselves and our children and theirs is a far greater and noble quest than wishful thinking while doing nothing but complaining about our eventual deaths all the while cowering in prayer to the air.

Science ADDS to the knowledge of Man and gives us a perpetual gift. Gifts you use every day. And eventually immortality can be a reality (in real life) as opposed to a pretend one after you're already gone.

Science is "doing" and "learning". Superstition is pretending while doing nothing.

So go ahead and put your hands together, your face in the dirt, and beg to the wind. The results will be no different today than they were a 1,000 years ago.

the opportunity to understand how precious and important life

Tell it to the Iraqis.

superstition, ignorance, or imaginary beings

Your opinion.

Faith in truth is infinitely better in the long run

For whom? People of the future? It makes no sense.

nothing but complaining about our eventual deaths all the while cowering in prayer to the air.

It is not about complaint really, it is about being able to see ones sin nature which is difficult to do because the ego blocks an individuals view of themselves and there is nothing anyone can do to avoid this predicament. Power corupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

eventu...

read more»

the opportunity to understand how precious and important life

Tell it to the Iraqis.

superstition, ignorance, or imaginary beings

Your opinion.

Faith in truth is infinitely better in the long run

For whom? People of the future? It makes no sense.

nothing but complaining about our eventual deaths all the while cowering in prayer to the air.

It is not about complaint really, it is about being able to see ones sin nature which is difficult to do because the ego blocks an individuals view of themselves and there is nothing anyone can do to avoid this predicament. Power corupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

eventually immortality can be a reality

Do you think man will discover this before he destroys his planet? Good luck with that.

put your hands together, your face in the dirt, and beg to the wind.

I challenge you to actually sit down and study the gospels. Then you can say you actually know what you are talking about.

make one statement of enlightenment

I did and it went over your head.

being able to see ones sin nature which is difficult to do because the
ego blocks an individuals view of themselves and there is nothing
anyone can do to avoid this predicament

Been there done that. And it hardly gives anyone knowledge of what they're talking about.

No...I don't really think you have. Otherwise, you would have discovered a whole other realm of knowledge that many have a innate sense of but few understand..

If you had "been there", you probably were brought there by people who claim to know truth but don't actually. There are many like that, the majority in...

make one statement of enlightenment

I did and it went over your head.

being able to see ones sin nature which is difficult to do because the
ego blocks an individuals view of themselves and there is nothing
anyone can do to avoid this predicament

Been there done that. And it hardly gives anyone knowledge of what they're talking about.

No...I don't really think you have. Otherwise, you would have discovered a whole other realm of knowledge that many have a innate sense of but few understand..

If you had "been there", you probably were brought there by people who claim to know truth but don't actually. There are many like that, the majority in fact who show a facade but lack the substance.

The two strongest forces that move man are love and hate. You don't need science to decipher this. And believe me, science does not continue to invent things for the noble purpose of helping mankind become immortal. The initial reason is for profit and recognition. Tell me this is not true.

make one statement of enlightenment

I did and it went over your head.

The "being able to see one's sin nature" thing? Is that the statement of enlightenment?

If that's your enlightened understanding, it is certainly clear that what John Horgan wrote went over your head.

Nothing you stated is a demonstrable fact of reality. It is therefore not "known" but pretended. If it is not "known" it cannot be considered knowledge, and even less so enlightenment.

"Otherwise, you would have discovered a whole other realm of knowledge..."

Then give a demonstrable fact of "other realm knowledge". You can begin with a clear unambiguous statement of what this "other realm" ...

make one statement of enlightenment

I did and it went over your head.

The "being able to see one's sin nature" thing? Is that the statement of enlightenment?

If that's your enlightened understanding, it is certainly clear that what John Horgan wrote went over your head.

Nothing you stated is a demonstrable fact of reality. It is therefore not "known" but pretended. If it is not "known" it cannot be considered knowledge, and even less so enlightenment.

"Otherwise, you would have discovered a whole other realm of knowledge..."

Then give a demonstrable fact of "other realm knowledge". You can begin with a clear unambiguous statement of what this "other realm" consists of and how it can be accessed outside of one's own mind.

(My prediction is that you cannot gain any information from this "other realm" that you do not already know from your own mind.)

The two strongest forces that move man are love and hate.

You mean after he's been fed and sheltered from this very universe that was created supposedly for his benefit? And after he's found a way to procreate his genes? Love is nice, but fear is much more motivating.

And believe me, science does not continue to invent things for the
noble purpose of helping mankind become immortal. The initial reason is
for profit and recognition. Tell me this is not true.

Hey, I think we've found a common ground. I do believe your above statement to be true.

Just as a quick venture, if you're so inclined. Look up the most profitable categories in all of marketing (advertising) and sales.

From science to drugs to automobiles to warfare to wrinkle cream, there is a common thread. And they all tend to agree with Maslow. The quest for immortality drives even your chosen religion! And the other guy's religion too.

The one thing that IS known is that man will save his own ass before the next guy in 99 cases out of 100. Good luck with your immortality theory as we strafe Afghanistan and Pakistan. Life has little value to those who run the show as well as those who vote for the creeps. But oh!, our fallen heros in battle. Shall we praise their sacrifices as we cut off their benefits and health care? Give me a break, will ya?

a demonstrable fact of reality

Your reality.

(My prediction is that you cannot gain any information from this "other realm" that you do not already know from your own mind.

That is why I suggested you read the books. But , apparently, you don't have t...

The one thing that IS known is that man will save his own ass before the next guy in 99 cases out of 100. Good luck with your immortality theory as we strafe Afghanistan and Pakistan. Life has little value to those who run the show as well as those who vote for the creeps. But oh!, our fallen heros in battle. Shall we praise their sacrifices as we cut off their benefits and health care? Give me a break, will ya?

a demonstrable fact of reality

Your reality.

(My prediction is that you cannot gain any information from this "other realm" that you do not already know from your own mind.

That is why I suggested you read the books. But , apparently, you don't have time for that cuz you are too busy defending logic and science and eating your Cheerios sprinkled with wheat germ made out of Christians.

And after he's found a way to procreate his genes?

I am sure it took him about 2 seconds to figure this one out unless he was gay.

The quest for immortality drives even your chosen religion!

If it is true that this is purely a quest for immortality, then that would be a tainted quest. The real quest should be(in Christianity) that God's will is done, no matter the consequence to the individual. Total selflessness is what God is looking for.