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AtlLiberalfollowshare
12-15-2007 5:41 PM
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AtlLiberal says:
We know that whales are intelligent. Whether they are self aware is another matter. Yet, there is something very poignant about this story.
18 Comments   | Add a Comment
12-16-2007 5:06 AM
neochonetes
I don't know either, but I do know that there is very good research on the evidence for self awareness of dolphins.
12-16-2007 9:08 AM
kmcolo
The concept of anthropomorphism needs to be rethought. To what degree do other "higher" beings understand self (we are constantly being surprised by how much other animals know of self and other and how much in terms of theory of mind that they poses.) and to what degree do we, humans, overstate our own "agency".
12-16-2007 9:39 AM
AtlLiberal
Our view of other species does tend to be clouded by our expectations. In our quest towards understanding we make too many assumptions both for and against attribution of intent. With more closely related species this may be of some benefit but with more distantly related species we tend to over generalize.Anyway, this is a fascinating field to study and I'm confident that we'll see some real break through in the future.
12-16-2007 6:01 PM
Socratoad
Exactly km.
12-17-2007 9:38 AM
dorine
Can these intelligent animals have mental illness like humans?
12-17-2007 9:52 AM
AtlLiberal
@dorine
I don't see why not. If you're referring to a neurological impairment the answer is obvious. The problem, as has been alluded to here, is placing too much emphasis on how we would feel in a similar situation (being the last of a species for example) and what another species might "think". I put that in quotes because we don't really know what their degree of awareness is. As kmcolo touched on earlier, anthropomorphism can at times cloud the issue with regards to animal behavior.
12-17-2007 8:43 PM
neochonetes
Mental illness among animals is a reality. I have seen horses exhibiting extreme obsessive behaviors. Possibly some trainer can help them, but the ones I have spoken with say that there are some severe mental illnesses that are very difficult to overcome.
BTW! I am mostly interested in the science, not the emotions of it all.
12-17-2007 9:19 PM
AtlLiberal
In addition, zoos (the older ones with small, cramped cages) are prime locations to observe what I would term mental illness in animals. I recall seeing lions and tigers continuously pacing, primates engaging in non-stop masturbation, obsessive head bobbing in elephants (not sure if this was an aberration or not). Thankfully, more humane (?) enclosures seem to have reduced these types of behaviors.
12-18-2007 12:44 PM
rfnajera
Are you sure the whale wasn't broadcasting at 72rpm and we're playing it at 65?

(Bad Eddie Izzard joke.)
12-19-2007 5:29 PM
neochonetes
Yes, most of the zoos in our area have developed larger more naturalistic homes for these animals. I agree the old time zoo cages were psyche breakers. Glad those cages are become extinct.
12-20-2007 3:29 PM
oldbogus
Maybe it isn't from Earth but got stranded here while visiting (Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home). "We are all made of the stuff of stars."
12-20-2007 4:54 PM
Sonjas interests
Every living thing has self awareness, of course this whale would be self aware we are not the true intelligent in this world otherwise we would not have messed it up so much.
12-20-2007 6:32 PM
AtlLiberal
Every living thing has self awareness,
Well, I suppose that depends on how developed its nervous system is.
we are not the true intelligent in this world
I'm not so sure I know what you mean here. Care to elaborate?
12-21-2007 7:10 AM
syncopath
poetic, existential loneliness, in both time and space.
WOW ....

i feel loneliness only in space .. -)) in time i move with ease ....
12-21-2007 8:42 AM
keszterx
AtlLiberal,
The elephants' head bobbing I think is not aberrant, rather it helps them keep their balance when standing in one place.
12-21-2007 10:41 AM
AtlLiberal
The elephants' head bobbing I think is not aberrant, rather it helps them keep their balance when standing in one place.
How interesting. As I said, I wasn't sure. And I've never heard this explanation before. It reminds me of certain species wnen searching for prey swing their head to and fro to gauge the location of the prey.

I suppose this would be a reminder to not place too many human attributes on other species.
12-22-2007 7:25 AM
coachtony
very sad
7-20-2008 6:20 PM
jamesgrimes
How sad. The poor thing.
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