And they probably make up less than 1% of the general population as well?

About 1.6% to about 2.4% according the latest Pew Research.

"...one-quarter of this group consists of those who describe themselves as either atheist or agnostic (1.6% and 2.4% of the adult population overall, respectively), the majority of the unaffiliated population (12.1% of the adult population overall) is made up of people who simply describe their religion as "nothing in particular."

It should be noted however that if there were zero atheists in America, it would still be factual that "Christians are more likely than other ...

And they probably make up less than 1% of the general population as well?

About 1.6% to about 2.4% according the latest Pew Research.

"...one-quarter of this group consists of those who describe themselves as either atheist or agnostic (1.6% and 2.4% of the adult population overall, respectively), the majority of the unaffiliated population (12.1% of the adult population overall) is made up of people who simply describe their religion as "nothing in particular."

It should be noted however that if there were zero atheists in America, it would still be factual that "Christians are more likely than other people to commit rape and murder" if the population consists vastly of Christians.

In this case, "other people" would be non-Christians. It would thus be a true statement.

The idea, in other words, that Christians are inherently more moral (if abiding by the law is any indication), is not borne out by our prison population.

The offense, however, is that the teacher is claiming Christians are MORE likely to commit crime, whereas based on the evidence (Pew vs prison population) Christians are only slightly more predisposed (0.6 -1.4%) than non-Christians.

And that's probably well within any margin of error.

Keep in mind, even in today's newspaper (AZ Republic, pg B1), "the defrocked priest [Donald McGuire] who once served as spiritual adviser to Mother Teresa of Calcutta was indicted" on charges of molestation of two brothers between 1988 and 2002."

Point being, there is a high incidence of sexual crimes from the religious camp. For example: [Times Online] reports:

"Churches are being advised to protect congregations against paedophiles and rapists in their midst as The Times uncovers figures showing a clear link between religion and sex crime."

The offense, however, is that the teacher is claiming Christians are MORE likely
to commit crime, whereas based on the evidence (Pew vs prison population)
Christians are only slightly more predisposed (0.6 -1.4%) than
non-Christians.

Bad people exsist in all walks of life. There are those who would argue that if you are black you are more likely to end up in prison then any other race. And someone could concoct a study to prove it. If I want to prove that men are more likely to be imprisoned then I could do a study to prove it as well. If I believe that if you live in a city you are more likely to commit a crime then suburbanites I could postulate a study to prove th...

The offense, however, is that the teacher is claiming Christians are MORE likely
to commit crime, whereas based on the evidence (Pew vs prison population)
Christians are only slightly more predisposed (0.6 -1.4%) than
non-Christians.

Bad people exsist in all walks of life. There are those who would argue that if you are black you are more likely to end up in prison then any other race. And someone could concoct a study to prove it. If I want to prove that men are more likely to be imprisoned then I could do a study to prove it as well. If I believe that if you live in a city you are more likely to commit a crime then suburbanites I could postulate a study to prove that point as well.

The fact is this. EVERYONE everywhere, in all walks of life, colors, creeds and belief systems are sinful people (lawbreakers) criminals in the sight of God. There is not a righteous person amongst us. Righteous meaning a non-lawbreaker. EVERYONE including yourself ace stands accused of trespasses of one type or another. None of us myself included can stand before almighty God and honestly say I have never ever done anything wrong in my entire life.

Those facts can be proven too by a PEE EWW study if anyone cares to ferret it out. So therefore it is not on the basis of my righteousness that I stand or fall it is based on the fact that I believe Jesus died to set me free from my awful self. It is the fact that Jesus cared enough for my sinful self that he made a way that I could stand justified at the end of time before a holy and righteous judge.

In the end we must all stand before the righteous judge to give an account of our life. Believer and non-believer alike. For those who do not believe this will happen will not keep the event from happening.

I therefore agree a study of fallen man will produce facts to prove they are indeed fallen. Interesting. Study a bunch of theives and you find out they are all thieves therefore we can conclude everyone must be

And judging by the very high incidence of clergy involved in sex crimes...

Humankind has its failings.

Statistcs shows that the largest population of prison immates are non-white. Therefore I believe that the majority of non-whites are criminals most likely to commit rapes and murders.

It is also a statistical fact that the African American community is very active church goers. Therefore it has to be true that if you are a non-white church going individual it is a forgone conclusion that 1 in every 10 people will end up in prison.

Now then a disclaimer is needed here because I am sure someone is going to say that is a racist comment. My point would therefore be proven....

And judging by the very high incidence of clergy involved in sex crimes...

Humankind has its failings.

Statistcs shows that the largest population of prison immates are non-white. Therefore I believe that the majority of non-whites are criminals most likely to commit rapes and murders.

It is also a statistical fact that the African American community is very active church goers. Therefore it has to be true that if you are a non-white church going individual it is a forgone conclusion that 1 in every 10 people will end up in prison.

Now then a disclaimer is needed here because I am sure someone is going to say that is a racist comment. My point would therefore be proven.

We can make numbers and statistics say anything we want them to say if we have a bias going into the study to begin with. My bias is this. NO ONE is worthy before the ultimate judge God to stand up and accuse anyone else. To say that a lawbreaker is more likely to break the law than someone who does not break the law is silly. It is for that very reason they are imprisoned.

Saying all non-whites are lawbreakers is an inaccurate statement even though I could point to some stupid study that indicates by their sheer number that in reality they are. Just because there seems to be a higher number of this population incarcerated does not disparage the entire community. To say so would be racist at its core.

To imply that Christians are most likely to commit certain crimes is also bigotted. Just because someone says they are a Christian does not make that person a Christian. One has to show forth fruit of the life to be considered Christian. AND no going to church does not make you a Christian, neither does joining the clergy.

IN the same way a non-white person who does not commit any crime can not be considered MOST LIKELY to do so just because someone who looked like him or her has committed a crime or crimes. Even if some stupid study seems to indicate they would.

Atheism after all has absolutely nothing of a positive nature to offer
either its adherent nor society.At present the main thrill of Atheism
is in its militant attack on religion and once religion was vanquished
the thrill would be gone.

The hatrid towards God started a long time ago and will continue until the end of time. The spirit of antichrist is alivie and well in the earth today. Its roots are in that ancient religion of Babylon which was birthed in the garden with the father of all lies, Satan.

Many may take offense to that statement but it will remain true until the end of time none the less. Satan has many followers being used for his own purposes and that is to a...

Atheism after all has absolutely nothing of a positive nature to offer
either its adherent nor society.At present the main thrill of Atheism
is in its militant attack on religion and once religion was vanquished
the thrill would be gone.

The hatrid towards God started a long time ago and will continue until the end of time. The spirit of antichrist is alivie and well in the earth today. Its roots are in that ancient religion of Babylon which was birthed in the garden with the father of all lies, Satan.

Many may take offense to that statement but it will remain true until the end of time none the less. Satan has many followers being used for his own purposes and that is to attack anything that appears to represent God in the earth today. Because satan has been kicked from the heavenlies and his fate is already established his hatrid towards God only grows as the end time approaches. More and more vicious attacks shall be raged against Israel and the church until such time as Jesus comes back to binds up that ancient serpent and ultimately casts him and his followers into the lake of fire at the end of the age.

Of course this is only a story. Made up by someone's vivid imagination. Interestingly though for such a made up story many actors are surely taking part in the narrative and playing their respective roles dutifully.
All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;

@Eaglewings

To imply that Christians are most likely to commit certain crimes is also bigotted. Just because someone says they are a Christian does not make that person a Christian. One has to show forth fruit of the life to be considered Christian. AND no going to church does not make you a Christian, neither does joining the clergy.

I don't disagree with anything you stated (in that post where this came from). Your example about Blacks:

It is also a statistical fact that the African American community is very active church goers. Therefore it has to be true that if you are a non-white church going individual it is a forgone conclusion that 1 in every 10 people will ...

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@Eaglewings

To imply that Christians are most likely to commit certain crimes is also bigotted. Just because someone says they are a Christian does not make that person a Christian. One has to show forth fruit of the life to be considered Christian. AND no going to church does not make you a Christian, neither does joining the clergy.

I don't disagree with anything you stated (in that post where this came from). Your example about Blacks:

It is also a statistical fact that the African American community is very active church goers. Therefore it has to be true that if you are a non-white church going individual it is a forgone conclusion that 1 in every 10 people will end up in prison.

... is also true.

But these are in AGREEMENT with what I've said. Did you read my last post? I showed that Christians (based on collected data so far) are only slightly more prone, and still likely not enough to be statistically significant (compared with the population).

The thing you're missing is that even if (and it's more likely to be the case) Christian sex crime are equivalent to non-Christian when equal ratios are considered...

Christians (as all religious groups) attempt to represent themselves as the moral apex to which OTHERS should piously aspire. (This is where the "Jesus glasses" fails reality.)

See, you're talking all this stuff about standing before GOD and yet the Christian sex criminal is no more or less moral (on aggregate) than the average Joe, be he Christian, agnostic or a priest! And that is the point.

Everything you stated above is in AGREEMENT with this!

Quick note: Atheists don't believe in god(s). To say they are
god-haters is therefore lying. Do you believe in the tooth fairy? If
no, does that mean you hate the tooth fairy?

I do not believe I said Atheists hate God, If it came off sounding like that then I will clarify here.

Jesus said it best:

Whoever is not with me is against me; and he who does not take part with me in getting people together, is driving them away. Matthew 12:30

The main point was there are those who strive against the truth therefore they become enemies of the truth. Maybe not intentionaly but the result is the same. Ignorance to the truth is really not an acceptable excuse either. Anyo...

Quick note: Atheists don't believe in god(s). To say they are
god-haters is therefore lying. Do you believe in the tooth fairy? If
no, does that mean you hate the tooth fairy?

I do not believe I said Atheists hate God, If it came off sounding like that then I will clarify here.

Jesus said it best:

Whoever is not with me is against me; and he who does not take part with me in getting people together, is driving them away. Matthew 12:30

The main point was there are those who strive against the truth therefore they become enemies of the truth. Maybe not intentionaly but the result is the same. Ignorance to the truth is really not an acceptable excuse either. Anyone who has ever gotten a ticket for a motor vehicle violation that they did not know exsisted on the books does not negate the fact the law exsisted and they violated it.

Not believing God exists does not negate the fact that He does. Your belief or lack of belief in Him determines which side of the fence you find yourself. There are many who believe in God and fight against the truth as well. Just like those who know the speed limit and violate it anyway. Not believing in the tooth fairy is not the same thing in my opinion but I do see where you are coming from.

But to use your analogy let us look at the "I do not believe in the tooth fairy" argument for a moment. If you do not believe in the tooth fairy then if you encounter someone who does you would be on the opposing side of the believer would you not? You could not engage in a conversation defending the tooth fairy if you did not believe in said tooth fairy. Eventually you would have to choose a side you could not remain neutral. To remain neutral would in effect negate your nonbelief. You have to defend your position if you truely believe in it.

As a Christian I respect people's right to not believe however I will contend for what I believe in because I am passionate about it. Just as I am sure atheists are. That will

The main point was there are those who strive against the truth therefore they become enemies of the truth.

That's exactly what I'm getting at! Thus to call something a truth that cannot be verified as such is bearing false witness, in other words, lying. (Lying makes one an enemy of the truth.)

Not believing God exists does not negate the fact that He does.

Nor does believing in one affirm the fact that He doesn't!

[Of course I am acknowledging the incorrect use of "fact" here in both statements.]

As a Christian I respect people's right to not believe...

Then who were you refering to when you said: "The hatrid towards God started a long tim...

The main point was there are those who strive against the truth therefore they become enemies of the truth.

That's exactly what I'm getting at! Thus to call something a truth that cannot be verified as such is bearing false witness, in other words, lying. (Lying makes one an enemy of the truth.)

Not believing God exists does not negate the fact that He does.

Nor does believing in one affirm the fact that He doesn't!

[Of course I am acknowledging the incorrect use of "fact" here in both statements.]

As a Christian I respect people's right to not believe...

Then who were you refering to when you said: "The hatrid towards God started a long time ago and will continue until the end of time..."?

Exactly why was that relevant since the conversation was about the probability of Christians committing sex crimes? Remember?

SAYING you respect people's right to believe... doesn't make it so. And lying doesn't make it so, either.

----

Back to the REAL topic:

What the teacher said about Christians and sex crimes was something you feel he did not have a right to say because...

__ put your respect for people's right to believe here __ .

My original comment, on the other hand, was: " Is there any truth to what the teacher said?"

You then broke off into god this, god that, never once considering if what the teacher said was TRUE.

And I'm sorry, but this teacher has a right to his opinion BUT he should not TEACH it as truth if it cannot be objectively verified.

That goes for any teacher anywhere. To do so would be LYING!

I wish the whole world would simply STOP LYING. It's a sad state of human affairs when we teach children lies. Be honest for a change and call it what it IS. It's an opinion, an idea, a theory, a metaphor, a parable, a wish, a creed, a guess, a faith...

It's okay! But lying is NOT okay. Do I really need to explain why?

@katsteevns

If this is true, then maybe the church just isn't what it claims to be. Like a tree bearing rotten fruit.

It is the point both Eaglewings and I have made. He alludes that the characterization of Christians committing sex crimes is unfair because it is endemic across all of society in roughly equal proportions.

I agree.

But the finer point is that Christians claim a morality from god! It is thus clear that a morality from god is on aggregate no different than a morality not from god.

The teacher should have said Christians are just as prone to committing sex crimes as anyone else, not that they are "more" prone. The presumption "the Jesus glasses" that ...

@katsteevns

If this is true, then maybe the church just isn't what it claims to be. Like a tree bearing rotten fruit.

It is the point both Eaglewings and I have made. He alludes that the characterization of Christians committing sex crimes is unfair because it is endemic across all of society in roughly equal proportions.

I agree.

But the finer point is that Christians claim a morality from god! It is thus clear that a morality from god is on aggregate no different than a morality not from god.

The teacher should have said Christians are just as prone to committing sex crimes as anyone else, not that they are "more" prone. The presumption "the Jesus glasses" that Christians are perceived as more moral is thus easy to disprove.

As far as the tree producing rotten fruit... I'm sure it produces some good fruit too.