 cbarr says: Ahhh, Newt Gingrich, the man who gave us the last twelve years of neconservative rule. Now he believes that he is like Lincoln and will be a reluctant cadidate for president in '08. Doesn't he know that Lincoln was a liberal? The people overwhelmingly rejected the neoconservative agenda on Nov. 7th. Newt, don't go away mad, just go away. To refer to any Amercian politician, of any party, prior to the last 30 years as a Liberal, as currently defined, is ridiculous. Y'all are a recent curse-- were you not, and had you been around back in the day, especially with your cohorts in the media, this great nation may not have even come to exist. On the contrary - it's the term "Conservative" that has been co-opted. Early republicans fought for less government, more personal freedoms, and protection from an overbearing federal power. Even I can get behind that sort of conservatism on various points. Today, to be "republican" or "conservative" has been contorted to mean that you support giving up freedoms for security "since you have noting to hide." It's been shanghaied into telling people what they can and can't do in their homes. It's now synonymous with morally judging others and codifying those judgments as law. Given the issues that truly matter - namely whether or not the government has any right to interfere in what are fram... Regarding your first paragraph, you have a point--especially the spending and big government-- the rest, no. Until recently morality was not an issue of political distinction, and current conservatives are simply interested in maintaining the commonsense morality that is under recent attack. Thanks Godfrey for the compliments, such a nice first comment. To say that Lincoln was not a liberal is nonsense. Sure the issues that define liberalism have changed, but the most liberal notion to have been spoken in mid 19th Century America was that of the abolition of slavery. It is you who confuses classic liberalism with modern liberalism. I find it hard to believe that Lincoln would have anything to do with the modern Republican Party. As you must know, parties change with time as well. And in 1860 America, the liberal party was the Republican Party. The next major political parties shift that takes place is 1929 and the crash of the stock market and the beginnings of the Great Depression. Thanks for the visit. eric, I agree to an extent, but the early Republicans (Lincoln) was not at all about small government or limiting the reach of the feds. If anything, Lincoln changed and increased the size of government and proved that the federal government is plenary when controlling the states; therefore, making the federal governments reach far more so than it had ever been (i.e., Civil War & state's rights). It is your thoughts after your first paragraph that I agree with. And as far as godfrey replies, I have no clue as to what he's talking about. In his own little world I do believe. I don't consider the abolition of slavery as liberal or conservative. It was the righting of a great wrong. I find it impossible to imagine LIncoln, or as I said, any politician prior to 40 years ago ( to edit my previous cronology) associating themselves with the current Dems, especially on social, moral issues. You might not consider the abolition of slavery as liberal while living in today's morals and standards, but in 19th century America it was a very liberal notion. And, yes, of course, it was a righting of a great wrong, but it was a liberal movement (that all men are created equal) to suggest that blacks should be free. I find it hard to believe too that Lincoln would have anything to do with the politics of today, nor would someone like Lincoln even be elected in today's political America, which is very sad, but none of that changes the fact that in 1860 Lincoln was regarded as the liberal candidate promoting progressive politics and so was the Republican Party. I actually consider myself a "classic liberal", but as things are currently defined it would be understood by most. The thing about terms like conservative and liberal that makes them problematic is that they are entirely context dependent and don't work well as fixed definitions applied in different eras or political systems. edit: wouldn't be understood... I agree with you completely. I also consider myself a classic liberal, and of which you called it/me a curse. So I assume you consider yourself a curse upon society as well. But, all this conversing goes back to your first comment where you said it was inaccurate to call Lincoln a liberal by today's definition. To maybe make myself more easily understood, I was inferring that Lincoln was a liberal for his day, and not necessarily by today's standard. A liberal nevertheless. Labels are problematic indeed. And moral leaping helps none. Do I consider myself a curse upon society? Are you kidding? I'm a veritable blessing--ask anyone here at The Clip. What do you mean by moral leaping, by the way? Sounds strenuous. Moral leaping is when people use present day morals and apply them to items of the past. For example, when people say that we should not have dropped the atom bomb on Japan because the Japanese are such a friendly culture today. Some may call it revisionist history, which in some cases it may be. But I usually refer to it as moral leaping. Seems to me that morality is timeless and beyond the need of any jumping. Lots of leaping around involved in situational ethics though. Good old Newt! I used to hate the guy, but after Tom DeLay came along, I started to get nostalgic for reasonable, well-educated, articulate Republicans. I like Newt, but he is far to vilified by the press to ever be president. There is just no way he could raise enough money to counter the negative adds disguised as news that the MSM would be running against him on the front page every single day. I agree, Enbar, but Newt would be lucky to carry his family, let alone one state, so whoopee, let him run and lose miserably. |
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