 papananook says: Now those jazzbos in the White House know how the troops and the American people feel (a little)--betrayed. Popped for Papananook's comment. Yep, just what I was thinking. Same here. The thing is... If McClellan is telling the truth, then he is a scumbag for taking part and not blowing the whistle. If McClellan is lying, then he is a scumbag for using his position to lie and make money selling books based on those lies and partisan wedge-building. Either way, you base your trust in a scumbag. But, what's new for Leftists? Thanks--but watching these knotheaeds squirm nd dodge in feigned "puzzlement" about a guy who is bringing out the truth from the inside (way too late) is just hilarious. I hope they all take the perp walk sometime soon. Friggin' criminals---"We just read the intelligence--so we were wrong, not lying". Bullsh*t. Yeah, Willie, he's a scumba and so what...it took him some time to listen to his conscience or he wants to make money....but he's only saying what we "leftys" already knew and if the "right", who is wrong, would have listened instead of bein "good Germans" then the country might not be in such a mess and a lot of lives would have been saved--Don't start with me, today, Willie....When the truth comes out the rarts start scurrying and if you supported these criminals then good luck when it all comes down. And whoever said I trusted him? I just recognize the information. Duh. That one guy that whined about McClellan was right about left-wing bloggers--we were telling the truth years ago. How do you bust organized crime, you either get someone on the inside or turn someone. That is why the WH (and the media) are all in a panic, CYA big time! Don't start wit h me, today,Cool down, papananook. I never "start" with you. The idea that you take my comments personally suggests an unhealthy outlook. Cheer up. Scott McClellan was fired because he was a bonehead. He presented no evidence in his book for anything he suggests. All he did was throw logs on the fire to sell books. As far as the truth is concerned... I know you are all about the truth as long as what you percieve to be the truth matches your ideology, preconcieved notions, and media sources. As far as "panic" goes, something tells me McClellan is soiling his britches at the idea of testifying before Congress about his "revelations". Oh, how I hope that day comes. Try to think clearly, papnanook.. Whenever one writes a book, they have to consider an audience. Do you really believe he would garner an audience by writing an "experience" piece about his short time in the White House? Would Conservatives go out and but that book? NO! Would Libs go out and buy that book? NO! However, throw a few nondescript images and accusations (without personal information or evidence), then you have something that creates media buzz and interest. There is nothing in his book that provides any more evidence about anything you suggest other than rumor-mongering. Except that what he says can be verified from other sources. And 6 years in the White House, plus his years with Bush in Texas is not a "short time". Main Entry: fact Listen to the pronunciation of fact Pronunciation: \ˈfakt\ Function: noun Etymology: Latin factum, from neuter of factus, past participle of facere Date: 15th century 1: a thing done: as aobsolete : feat b: crime <accessory after the fact> carchaic : action 2archaic : performance, doing3: the quality of being actual : actuality <a question of fact hinges on evidence>4 a: something that has actual existence <space exploration is now a fact> b: an actual occurrence <prove the fact of damage>5: a piece of... Hmmmm...methinks for all your aloof conservatism that you are blind, Willie, to the truth. And I'll calm down when all these criminals are perp-walking instead of getting rich on other people's blood and suffering. Don't fuckin' tell me to calm down--I told ya don't do it today, Willie...I don't want to lose my temper but jokers like you who refuse to see are really a pain in the butt. Refuse to see what? The lies and liars McClellan wrote his book about. Too little too lat but still--makin' some people nervous. I, too would love to sewe him in front of Congress under oath. I'm sorry. I haven't read the book. What lies did McClellan write about? Also, what makes you believe people are nervous? Geez, Willie do you watch the news? Not even Fox? Anyway, the nervous ones are all acting "puzzled" and are attacking Scotty as a disgruntled employee Here an excerpt an comment: “History appears poised to confirm,” he writes in arguably the most damning paragraph of a book full of them, “that the decision to invade Iraq was a serious strategic blunder. No one, including me, can know with absolute certainty how the war will be viewed decades from now … What I do know is that war should only be waged when necessary, and the Iraq war was not necessary.” And those are not the words of a disgruntled outsider, summoned to the colours and then casually tossed aside. Mr McClellan largely owes his... now familiar guise, as a skilled politician, possessed of charm and an engaging wit, who is, “plenty smart enough to be President”. On the other hand, he is utterly incurious and uninquisitive on policy matters, preferring to rely on gut instinct than a detailed sifting of the arguments. For the 43rd President, a decision once taken is always right. The approach reflects not only Mr Bush’s ingrained stubbornness but his ability to deceive not only others, but also himself. No one, including me, can know with absolute certainty how the war willNotice how McClellan says "no one can know", then he presumes to know. Seems a bit circular. The goal of the war in Iraq was to reshape the middle east. The result of removing despotic, fascist, and murderous regimes in the Middle East could be world-changing. McClellan is right: "No one can know how the war will be viewed decades from now." Part of the reason is because we are still in the midst of the campaign against radical Islam and the pitiful state of affairs in the was... Have fun with your kool aid on that whole middle east nation building thing that's working soooo well. What a dumbass utopian piece of crap ego boosting idea..."We'll reshape the world in the image of the USA!" Crap. That is not just an Utopian ego boosting idea, it is a piece of deception (and self-deception), the same things where said by the likes of TR during the Spanish American War and by Johnson in Vietnam. The goal, was, is and will be Empire. Completely bone headed, immoral and downright deadly, o yes... that whole middle east nation building thing that's working soooo well.Just because it is working out so well now does not mean that it will continue. The US needs to remain involved and have the resolve to help Iraq and Afghanistan stabilize themselves. "We'll reshape the world in the image of the USA!" Crap.It is true Neocons have a penchant for polarization and conflict but I do not know of anyone wanting to make the world like the US ( not that it would be a bad thing). The issue regarding "making the world like the US" is only valid in the sense that the US has freed more people than any nation in the history of mankind and continues to do so. Nation bui... "You have a responsibility not to embarrass the President. It hurts the country. It's just stupidity and weakness." it will be known as the latest example of disloyalty at the top, an attempt to cash in on trickle-down celebrity with an instant book. Q? n2, who are you quoting? The first quote is George Stephanopoulos talking about Dick Morris when his book came out during the Clinton administration (the media said worse). The second quote is Time talking about George Stephanopoulos when his book came out during the Clinton administration. Ok....question remains, did Dick Morris or George Stephanopoulos stick to the facts or not. Because if they did, their valid, if they didn't their garbage. Besides, where did those two end up working at... ABC News and Faux News, so much for the media slamming them. First, unless you were working in the White House, it is pretty hard to say what was fact, what is feelings, and what is fiction. Much of what I have heard McClellan say sounds like feelings and the question should be did he express those feelings to anyone in the administration, and if not, why not. Second, the media's initial response to those books is what is most telling here. They are taking sides based on the political persuasion of the president being attacked. Third, do you realize how much you sound like a political leftist tool every time you say Faux News? First, wrong. There are a lot of corroborating evidence. What these books can do is give us an inside look, but by no means they are the only way to know the truth. That was Cheney's excuse during the run up to the war in Iraq and it didn't work with me. Second, I don't think the response is as relevant as you think, considering that public opinion has shifted during the Bush years. Had the book come out in 2002 or 2004, they would not have payed it any mind. Their just shifting with their viewers. I think what is telling is the response from the White House. Third, what you got a problem with the truth? But they do say that reality has a liberal bias.... Reality doesn't have a liberal bias, but you sure do. Oh I am a liberal, no doubt about that. As for bias, well Fuax News is fake news. Those who don't see that are not biased, their blind. Oh I'm too tired to refute all of Wilhelm's misguided stuff and N2-Soon is always so boringly misinformed. Oh, well--It's good that McClellan's book will spark some debate instead of all the lies being buried. What lies have been buried? I thought you were upset because of lies. Wouldn't burying lies mean one is only left with the truth? Was that Freudian? Oh I am a liberal, no doubt about that. As for bias, well Fuax News is fake news. Those who don't see that are not biased, their blind.It is no more fake news than the AP that feeds it (so in some ways maybe you are right). Fact is, they have shown that the news on FOX (not entertainment shows, but news) is closer to center than any of the MSM sources. And the only reason you can't see that is because you are so far away from center you couldn't see it with a telescope. BTW, just found out that there is no evidence in McClellan's book. No footnotes, no end notes, and no supporting documentation. You say you want just the facts, but there are none in McClellan's book, just opinions. Just keep toeing the party line, Willie and Too-soon...that's all right. Sieg Heil! Keep believing the "leader". But the pendulum swings. Peace! When the soldiers come home soon, I hope. Fact is, they have shown that the news on FOX (not entertainment shows, but news) is closer to center than any of the MSM sources.Who has shown this? Have they actually watched the channel? Yes, speaking the news out a teleprompter is ok, but when it gets filtered by the host on the shows (and I didn't know they had entertainment shows on FN, I thought was what Fox channel was all about) like H&C, O'Reilly and so many others, it goes down the toilet. Besides, I doubt you or anyone else can claim the "center" when your part of the lower 33%. There's plenty of evidence about the lies of Bush/Cheney/Rice/Rumsfeld/Rove--in fact it's all on videotape. McClellan didn't need footnotes to express his doubts and feelings about the most criminal Admin. in History. It'll all come out someday, I hope. I love the way all the rats are coordinating their backlash about the book. hilarious watchin them deny it all over again..."We didn't do nuthin' wrong! Except for a few mistakes.". Rightio, Condi, Karl and Georgie! BTW, just found out that there is no evidence in McClellan's book. NoI read the same thing. Seems that books with footnotes, evidence, end notes, supporting documentation, and witnesses seem to be ignored by the press when they are about Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton. or FDR. It's human nature, you don't need evidence when someone is telling you what you want to hear. Or what is already public record. And btw, all the attacks on McClellan, not one says, "oh his lying" or "that is not what happened". He is eyewitness, the book is a testimonial, you would think in a town full of lawyers one would be good enough to mount a good cross. I'll sit here and wait....and they better come with it soon, old Scotty might decide to repeat his testimony under oath (something that this administration likes as much as germs like disinfectant). Oh, they wouldn't want evidence under oath, which is why no one from the Admin. ever shows up to testify at Congressional oversight hearings unless they have massive memory loss, not to mention all the emails that conveniently disappeared-- so NOW YOU WANT FOOTNOTES AND EVIDENCE OF McClellan's FEELINGS ABOUT THE LIARS IN THE WHITE HOUSE! HYPOCRITES! Liars, propaganda panderers, Stonewallers and murderers but they get away with it until one of their own comes clean and every body WHINES AND MOANS--NO EVIDENCE!!!! You guys are unreal! The more you defend the Bushies, the less I have ANY flicker of respect for anything you say here, Willie, N2-soon, Sillysam and all you right wing obfuscating j... Just keep toeing the party line, WillieWhat party would that be, papananook? And, who are my guys? Oh, that's right, Willie--you are alone in you ivory tower of Libertarian conservatism, unmarked by the Bushie Neocons to whom you give your tacit support, right. Or just waiting for the reincarnation of Goldwater and Reagan? Who knows, Mr. Cool? But you sure are easy to put down anyone with views left of Sen. Lieberman. But of course you love John Bolton...hahahaha, one of the biggest jerks to ever serve his Master Bush--or was it Cheney? Now isn't this enough for this clip? what is it, 43 comments that started with a mention of the White House getting a taste of their own betrayal. And on and on they whine and deny and accuse. I think John Bolton is a Neocon ( sorta fascistic), which makes him the perfect man for the job. By the way, Libertarian conservatism, that is kind of redundant. Libertarian Incrementalist would be a better description of my political views. However, I recognize the poverty of thought here so I begrudgingly refer to myself as Conservative. By the way...How about Elitist snob/jerk? Since there's such a paucity of thought, let's just call a snob like you what you are. Every time you comment I imagine Wm. F. Buckley sneering with his nose in the air...not that your intellect any way closely approaches Buckley's, Wilhelm. Is That your real name or just some affectation you assume because your real name is Elmer? Or Jethro? Did Mama name you after Willie Mays? I could have some respect for a guy named Willie. Remember that he is a politico, so logic never enters into it. Yeah, our special Ivory towered Libertarian snob. Such a joy to communicate with, ain't he, Ratilfar? It is strange to see him or read him twist himself into knots trying to convince us that he is our intellectual superior. I'm just waiting for the inevitable explosion of vile when he blames all the evils of the universe on materialism, followed by whining about how everybody piles up on him. He then leaves for awhile and then tries to do it all over again with some poor new arrival that had no idea of what the Willhelm represents. Of course, nothing that he, sorry The Willhelm (less I encourage his mighty wrath, I mean from God to the Wilhelm to us lowly peons  ), has said has refuted what McClellan has said in his book.He sort of reminds me of people like Savage, Hitchens and Horowi... Papananook, you really need to lighten up. I'm worried that your quitting smoking may not have been all that beneficial to you overall. Kidding aside. How's that going for ya? As I've mentioned previously, I spend more time in my marble tower than I do my Ivory tower. Did you read my last comment? You not only hate conservatives, you hate libertarians too? And what is all this concern with my screen name? Are you preparing a noose with my name on it? I thought we were buddies, papananook? It is your clip papananook, care to field this one? I don't hate anybody, Wilhelm...I just like callin' you Willie 'cuz Wilhelm seems so...pretentious, like your attitude towards people whose politics are left of center. I really feel sorry for you guys on the right with your true believer base who can't take time off from spewing nonsense to see what our country has become and the danger that perpetual wars brings: Economic collapse, loss of human rights, lack of education, social and cultural stupidity. Yeah, that's right I blame war--if we weren't such an OIL/WAR addicted nation, things would be a lot better. As for smoking, I happy to say I'm still smoke-free but still craving ...and it does make me grumpy at times so I take it all out on... And who knows...if we met we might be buddies...but I kinda doubt it. Surely there are some things in common. We are after all Human Beings, neh? At least I think we are. like your attitude towards people whose politics are left of center.I don't have an attitude toward these people. Hell, I used to be one. I have an attutude toward ignorance. And who knows...if we met we might be buddies...but I kinda doubt it.And, why do you doubt it? Most of my friends are Liberals. Judging by your comments, papananook, I think you would be really well served by another vaction. You have friends? Liberals? Yikes! hahahahaha....Oh, Willie, if you mean vacation (left out 'a'), my life is a vacation--I'm retired and I have no real responsibilities except to play with my grandkids and pay my monthly bills on my meager pension from the Uncle Sam I'm always slamming. If I didn't get SSI--I'd be a major burden on my son--as it is I pay him rent and babysit. We just have different ideas of what constitutes ignorance, Wilhelm. And I have never been a Liberal, altho I respect some of their ideals--I'm far to the left of Liberal--far, far, left. Left of Mao, and Che, even 'cuz I'm not violent. Papananook said: I'm far to the left of Liberal--far, far, left. Left of Mao, and Che We just have different ideas of what constitutes ignorance, Wilhelm.Indeed! Thanks for admitting your political persuasion. Most here in La La Land would never consider such. It is amusing how you people love the Hitleresque, totalitarian, socialist-murdering types ( except for the whole brutality thing ). It seems you have found the perfect place to express your opinion, where like-minded people can exercise the tyranny of opinion so ingeniously devised for you. Bravo for honesty, papananook. Now, there you go, Wiilie, Ya pr*ick! Twisting my words...I NEVER SAID I LOVED MAO OR CHE, certainly never had any interest in murdering totatlitarians, ya numbskull. I said I was left of all that. As in Pacifist Enlightened Anarchist/Socialist, to coin a phrase that still wouldn't describe where i am politically. You are an ignorant fool who refuses to listen and then attacks some phantom in your own sick mind, Willie. Just STFU if ya can't be real. Jeebus and Ramona--you are totally off the wall. No bravos for you or for what you said about me. Willie's been takin' lessons from Karl Rove, Goebbels and Machiavelli again...What a twisted thinker. Geez papnanook, you sound tormented. It always happens to the enlightened ones. It's a shame. Did you not notice that I kinda agreed with you on this clip. It seems you are bent on hatred and divisiveness. Can we not agree on anything? Why do you hate so much? What have I ever done to you? Willie you are a classic passive aggressive dickhead. First you attack and then you go all nicey-nice just to get me all worked up. and then tell me to calm down...Well screw ya Willie I see your game. Bugger off. I don't hate you but I can't stand people like you. I'm right out front in my politics whereas you play ames to be some mysterious, nebulous nothing. Now shut the f up. games. Here that, everyone, papananook says I'm passive ? LOL ! I'm right out front in my politics whereas you play ames to be some mysterious, nebulous nothing.Her that, everone. Papananook says I'm hide my views. You're doin it again, doofus...that's passive/aggressive: "It is amusing how you people love the Hitleresque, totalitarian, socialist-murdering types ( except for the whole brutality thing )." and then ..."Geez papnanook, you sound tormented. It always happens to the enlightened ones. It's a shame. Did you not notice that I kinda agreed with you on this clip." Maybe you are the one giving Karl Rove lessons. with that twisted shit meant to confuse. Or manybe your AR E TRYING TO GOAD ME INTO BANNING YOUR SORRY ASS. I'd just ignore you first but I have time to do clipmarks. booty, I mean papnanook, no hard feelings. Oh, see? There I go. Doing it again. Don't let the trolls bait you papananook. Willie here is a strange combo of Xenophobe, Troglodyte Ferrous Cranus and Profundus Maximus It is a strange brew, but he pulls it off with his own twisted style. So don't give in to temptation, but simply accept Him for what he is. Wow, Ratilfar---those three just about cover Willie perfectly...Thanks for the help, bro! As for you, Troglodyte Willie--BUGGER OFF! Geez papnanook, you sound tormented. It always happens to the enlightened ones. It's a shame.That was sarcasm, papnanook. The tormented ones are the ones that believe they are enlightened, only to learn late in life that they were purely delusional for most of their lives. So, let me ask you this, papananook. You say you're an older fella. I'm guessing 60ish. Have you never changed or grown in any of your views? Have you been in the same paradigm all your life. Because, when I was younger, in college, twentyish, and knew everything I was a pretty staunch Left-winger myself. So, I'm not foriegn to the paradigm. I'd just like to hear more about your experiences. You're an in... You first, Willie...let's hear how you became a Libertarian conservative pain-in-the-butt-nit-pickin' freak after wastin' your youth as a Lefty. If you want more about me--wade thru my journal. URL is in the profile Papnanook, I thought an outline of my history was pretty well known. This was my profile before I removed it. I am a 39 year old recovering alcoholic and recovering liberal. Going on 8 years of sobriety and 15 years of political and social clarity. I have been married 10 years and have a 1 year old daughter that was a miracle due to the fact my wife and I, after several years of practice and doctor's help, had come to believe our efforts futile. I have been employed in the past in sales, managemet, and human resources. I am presently contracted by a major university to conduct social research on a specific federal program. My interests include:history, philosophy, astronomy, music of almo... My views moderated when I set out on a personal reformation. I was agnostic, a left-thinker thought not as Left as my collegiate early years. I made conscious effort to toss out every preconcieved notion I had and rebuilt my opinions on logic, facts, and evidence. I'm sure you disagree with that but I assure you my views were based first in the recognition that I did not control reality. That came from being sober. Another thing that changed me is love and my commitment to give. I believe authentic gratitude is the key to happiness and simplicity is the key to wisdom. I do not believe the devil is in the details. I believe the devil is in the extremes and claims of esoteric details are used to advance the extremes. I believe the most difficult obstacle for people to overcome to accept truth is their personal bias and subjectivity. If you can slough that off, it will be similar to an enslaved man sloughing off chains. |
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