 communicatrix says: Wake up, kids. Feminism ain't about hating on men. It's about freeing ourselves, male and female, from The Man. It's about ending a system that's unfair, unhealthy and outright dangerous to most of the population, regardless of gender. As long as we don't change the cooking and laundry thing... Ow. OW! Ok! Geez. I take it back. It's just a joke... I believe that feminism is about hating men. Why are you trying so hard to keep us from equality with child custody matters. Oh... I forgot we are child beaters like you said. What a bunch of malarkey. 1. What you believe is, in addition to being wrong, ridiculous and obviously not founded in any kind of actual study of feminism. 2. Feminism is partly *about* you having equality in child custody matters, male person. If both sexes are treated equally, they're treated equally in *all* matters, child custody included. (Although in your case, if I were adjudicating, I might hesitate; however, my skepticism about your fitness as a parent would have less to do with gender than with a seeming inability to put your anger and preconceived notions aside to read and comprehend a simple paragraph.) 3. "Child beaters"? Where the hell are you getting that? Reread and ponder until you fully grok it, tietsort. Seriously. It's not that hard to get. communicatrix said:My earlier kidding aside; I think, for some, you may be assuming more ability than is warranted by the evidence provided. @Fracture - Haha. You be my new favorite Clipmarker. Yar. My comment doesn't seem to post... so forgive me if it shows up twice. Unfortunately, I believe you are forgetting the biggest difference between men and women: men are competitive (more so than women, and yes that's a generalization) and women are cooperative. And nurturing. And cooks and maids and prostitu.... oops... won't go there. At least that's what my grandma told me. Seriously... as much as the rhetoric of equality sounds good and wonderful, there are too many people (men AND women) who find comfort/profit, whether emotionally or financially, in the status quo. It's not like there have never been civilizations built upon equality before... successful, non-warring ones at that. And while they may have lasted for hundreds if not thousands of y... I disagree with feminism. All through nature, it has been the job of one sex to rear the children and protect the family, while it is the job of the other gender to have power, control, and to hunt and feed. This may switch between genders sometimes, but this is true of most animals. Of course, I disagree with men having more power. We have evolved beyond women being inferior; but it is also natural for women to feel and care for young,just as it is natural for men to have the jobs getting resources for the family. Man-hating "feminists" claim that women are better because they are better and more capable with emotions, but this just is more reason why it is natural for women to be the main... Absolutely there are differences between men and women. And if women "get" to do "women's work," then why is it that a guy will hire a maid or a cook or a prostitu... anyway, he'll hire a woman to do those jobs around his house, but won't pay the woman he's sleeping with to do those very same things? That's an extreme example, but while society pays lip service to any person who performs "women's work," the truth is, that's just about all they *do* get paid. Feh... I've dated some pretty powerful women and still enjoyed being a chivalrous fool as much as they enjoyed being treated like a lady. Not a single one of those women was a supporter of this "movement" even though most of them had enough money and power to buy my soul. WARNING: OPINION FOLLOWS - read with open mind To me feminism seems to be something else to cry about for people who feel insecure in who they are. There are too many "groups" in this world whining about being treated unjust. Whining "we want this," "we want that," "it's unfair." There are people in this world with no home, children starving to death, animals being tortured and worlds colliding... please. There I've said it.. I feel much better now. :0 BBW, just because there are bigger issues worldwide, I don't think we should stop addressing problems with our own society. The fact is that women of equal education and skill are still paid less for doing the same job as a man in the same position. Why? Until we can accept the fact that there are still systemic problems and invisible biases at work, we can't do anything to fix them, either in ourselves or in society as a whole. There's generally not a big villain here. No one is thinkg "I want to hold this woman down by paying her less than her male counterpart." Instead, there are biases and prejudices that we may not even realize we have. Raising awareness can sound a whole lot ... @gazco - Feminism isn't about man-hating or people having to do something they don't want to do (unless you want to treat someone as less-than, which it doesn't seem is on your agenda). It's about treating everyone with the same respect. It's humanism. And please, please be careful about those "women are wired to do this." I am wired to menstruate (for the time being), but it stops there. The creative urge is fulfilled in me via other things, and the urge to take care of people is in large part a function of socialization. @ BBW (hey! that's some acronym!) - Much of what you were doing for those women probably fell under the rubric of courtesy. We have forgotten, it seems, how to be court... Eric... My wife holds a very high position within a state run agency. She is an example of a woman being underpaid in a mans world. We've discussed it many times and even she will admit that while it would be nice to get what a man would, it wasn't all that long ago that a woman would not even be considered for this kind of position. We've made progress towards equalizing this but sometimes the wheels of progress move slowly.It just seems to me that there are a lot of people out there who want to change the world over night and it just isn't happening. I think we are losing focus... complaints of women being underpaid is not the main issue I have with feminists. Men and women are genetica... @BigBad - As you mention, equal pay is the least of it. It's more of a deflector argument, a shiny object to distract us from the deeper, more insidious and difficult-to-resolve issues. Patriarchy colors everything, and not in a good way, and is equally insalubrious to women and most men—hence, your world poverty, religion that grinds down rather than uplifts, and a million forms of slavery ranging from the unmistakable to the imperceptible. Again, this is neither a discussion about equal pay or who was born with which secondary sex characteristics. It's about human rights. For all humans, equally. "The fact is that women of equal education and skill are still paid less for doing the same job as a man in the same position. " Common sense shows this to be complete nonsense. If a business owner could pay a woman 80% of what he pays a man, to do THE EXACT SAME JOB, then no business owner in his (or her) right mind would hire any men at all. Who wouldn't jump at the chance to save 20% of their payroll expenses? Just hire all women! Common sense shows this to be complete nonsenseUnfortunately, www.lsureveille.com/media/storage/paper868/news/2007/05/04/News/Study.Women.Paid.Less.Than.Men-2894362.shtml" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">facts www.californiaaggie.com/media/storage/paper981/news/2007/05/08/CityNews/CollegeEducated.Women.Earn.Less.Than.CollegeEducated.Men.Study.Finds-2897077.shtml" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">show this to be completely true. There's too much discontent created in any Them vs. Us differentiation. I have no intention of getting into Us (the few, the shining, the sensible) vs. Them (the many, the squalid, the foolish). We stand on the side of reason, truth, beauty, and consistency, while they wallow in the swamps of chaos and nameless horror. People call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat or a prostitute. -- Rebecca West There's too much discontent created in any Them vs. Us differentiation.Exactamundo, people! Which is why feminism makes sense. No more privilege based on the virtue of...anything: gender, race, class, etc. That's a great quote, btw; so's this: “Feminism is the radical notion that women are people” |
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