R's don't think you should have it, nobody is stopping you from getting it. R's don't think you should rob someone to get the coverage you need. Listening to voices here - it's like every liberal in America is without health insurance, which means none of them work.

No question that health industry needs to be reformed, made more efficient & effective... the first step of which to eliminate John Edwards of this world and stop suing doctors as it was a favorite past time. Getting the MSAs implemented would be the other helpful item and certainly take care of the ones who can't work or are disabled. But the entitlement approach is both unfair and will lower the quality of US healthcare....

R's don't think you should have it, nobody is stopping you from getting it. R's don't think you should rob someone to get the coverage you need. Listening to voices here - it's like every liberal in America is without health insurance, which means none of them work.

No question that health industry needs to be reformed, made more efficient & effective... the first step of which to eliminate John Edwards of this world and stop suing doctors as it was a favorite past time. Getting the MSAs implemented would be the other helpful item and certainly take care of the ones who can't work or are disabled. But the entitlement approach is both unfair and will lower the quality of US healthcare. Just talk to people in other countries and see how 'well' it works with socialized medicine. In Canada people are dying, because they stand in line for months to get the treatment they need in weeks. That's socialized medicine for you. Besides, since when did government do anything efficiently & effectively in these kinds of endeavors... look at the post office, look at medicare etc. - that's NOT an improvement if they also completely control healthcare. We may all get these cards, and pay taxes through the nose, but in terms of quality... highly unlikely.

Zasel lives in Canada and I have spoken personally to him about this and he also had nothing but good things to say about the health care system there.
Is taking away the right to sue for medical malpractice from the people who suffer that injustice the correct way to lower medical costs? NO, it's just another way to give those people the royal shaft while making the insurance companies richer and richer. I'll compare my personal income vs. insurance premiums I pay to any doc's any day of the week, and he'll come out saying we are all on the same boat, but baby, I'm on a life raft while he is on a yacht.

Listening to voices here - it's like every liberal in America is w...

Zasel lives in Canada and I have spoken personally to him about this and he also had nothing but good things to say about the health care system there.
Is taking away the right to sue for medical malpractice from the people who suffer that injustice the correct way to lower medical costs? NO, it's just another way to give those people the royal shaft while making the insurance companies richer and richer. I'll compare my personal income vs. insurance premiums I pay to any doc's any day of the week, and he'll come out saying we are all on the same boat, but baby, I'm on a life raft while he is on a yacht.

Listening to voices here - it's like every liberal in America is without health insurance, which means none of them work.

Oh RS! I would expect just a little better from you! Have you forgotten about the working poor? Ok, I know that was a silly question for me to ask. And Medicare works RS.

Some years ago, before th injury that put me on disability, a had a very good consulting job that paid $25 an hour. Despite living in a DINK household, the only medical insurance available to me amounted to more than I could afford. I was lucky that my wife had a job that provided insurance with spousal coverage. Of course, that went away when she died, but by then I'd left consulting for a full time job with benefits, but it still failed me. The HMO I had refused to allow me an EEG when I started having memory gaps because the tests couldn't be "cost justified". It later turned out that I was epileptic, had a seizure while driving and cause a fatality that never would have happened if ...

Some years ago, before th injury that put me on disability, a had a very good consulting job that paid $25 an hour. Despite living in a DINK household, the only medical insurance available to me amounted to more than I could afford. I was lucky that my wife had a job that provided insurance with spousal coverage. Of course, that went away when she died, but by then I'd left consulting for a full time job with benefits, but it still failed me. The HMO I had refused to allow me an EEG when I started having memory gaps because the tests couldn't be "cost justified". It later turned out that I was epileptic, had a seizure while driving and cause a fatality that never would have happened if I had been tested and medicated in a timely manner.

On a personal note;
I know more people now that don't have any insurance than ten years ago.
Including myself.
I have seen the quality of life zapped from more of my aquaintences in the last 5 years than ever before in my life.
I called welfare to see if I qualified for medical insurance and they told me the cutoff income for my size family is $258 per month. Who in this great nation survives on $258 @ month?! Last month I made $800.
They said I make too much money for assistance.
In other words they told me to go fuck myself. I am not a tax paying citizen worthy of assistance in a time of need. My needs are not worthy. Let me rot.
oh yeah, The school that my govt requires and taxes me for ...

On a personal note;
I know more people now that don't have any insurance than ten years ago.
Including myself.
I have seen the quality of life zapped from more of my aquaintences in the last 5 years than ever before in my life.
I called welfare to see if I qualified for medical insurance and they told me the cutoff income for my size family is $258 per month. Who in this great nation survives on $258 @ month?! Last month I made $800.
They said I make too much money for assistance.
In other words they told me to go fuck myself. I am not a tax paying citizen worthy of assistance in a time of need. My needs are not worthy. Let me rot.
oh yeah, The school that my govt requires and taxes me for sent home a note stating that my daughter cannot graduate unless I pay them $250 in tuition assessment fees for supplies and other requirements.
Its child abuse if my electricity or water gets shut off.
Low quality/price grocery stores meant to be a supplement have become the major expenditure every payday. The co-pay at the dr office is nothing more than a fee to recieve a prescription I cannot fill.
My dr actually told me he cant do anything for me unless I get better insurance.

My work has insurance - My copay is $25
My dr ($25) sends me to a specialist ($40) who sends me to another specialist ($40) who writes me a prescription ($58) that doesn't work. I go back to my dr ($25) and he sends me to another specialist ($40) who prescribes me a week supply of a drug that starts to work ($38) but tells me I have to do a followup ($40) to get a refill ($38) and do a followup with my pricare ($25) and my shit is still not fixed.
Not to mention the fact that I am driving 20+ miles one way to see these people.
Now, I don't have a dr or a specialist or a prescription because nobody seems to know what is causing the problem. If I want to travel to the city and see another spe...

My work has insurance - My copay is $25
My dr ($25) sends me to a specialist ($40) who sends me to another specialist ($40) who writes me a prescription ($58) that doesn't work. I go back to my dr ($25) and he sends me to another specialist ($40) who prescribes me a week supply of a drug that starts to work ($38) but tells me I have to do a followup ($40) to get a refill ($38) and do a followup with my pricare ($25) and my shit is still not fixed.
Not to mention the fact that I am driving 20+ miles one way to see these people.
Now, I don't have a dr or a specialist or a prescription because nobody seems to know what is causing the problem. If I want to travel to the city and see another specialist he might be able to figure it out but then I have to copay the lab fees for that specialist to do the tests my dr should have done in the first place.
In the mean time, I suffer, miss work and have lower and lower paychecks.

Typical dr day
Wake up sick, go to work, work 3 hrs (+$27). Clock out and go across town to my DR ($25). He tells me he needs me to see a specialist. Gas up car($15) drive 24 miles and sit in specialst office for appx 1 hr. Pay fee ($40). Specialist looks at me, decides to send me to another specialist ($40) across that town. That specialist states that he isn't sure what is wrong and suggests a different specialist in St Louis (60 miles 1 way). Since I can't afford to go, I leave and go home, still sick. Since there is only an hour sor so left in my shift I don't go back to work(-$36). I'm now on empty again, no script for relief and missed most of the day at work. I made $27 this day. I sp...

Typical dr day
Wake up sick, go to work, work 3 hrs (+$27). Clock out and go across town to my DR ($25). He tells me he needs me to see a specialist. Gas up car($15) drive 24 miles and sit in specialst office for appx 1 hr. Pay fee ($40). Specialist looks at me, decides to send me to another specialist ($40) across that town. That specialist states that he isn't sure what is wrong and suggests a different specialist in St Louis (60 miles 1 way). Since I can't afford to go, I leave and go home, still sick. Since there is only an hour sor so left in my shift I don't go back to work(-$36). I'm now on empty again, no script for relief and missed most of the day at work. I made $27 this day. I spent $120+(food), If I would have just stayed home I only would have lost $72.

I agree with you skwirlinator, it needs change as I described. Obviously people who get older are in tougher situation, spouses die, the employment possibilities deteriorate, thus the quality of life as well. No question. Medicare does work, debbyski, but it's going bankrupt and that's where the problem with it is. Our government is way too inefficient, there are way too many people (who shouldn't be on assistance) that are on assistance. And I'm completely for people's ability to sue, provided there's merit, not when you're too dumb not to spill a cup of coffee in your lap and then sue for $6million - that's what I'm against. And for the record, I had a guest just last week who was fro...

I agree with you skwirlinator, it needs change as I described. Obviously people who get older are in tougher situation, spouses die, the employment possibilities deteriorate, thus the quality of life as well. No question. Medicare does work, debbyski, but it's going bankrupt and that's where the problem with it is. Our government is way too inefficient, there are way too many people (who shouldn't be on assistance) that are on assistance. And I'm completely for people's ability to sue, provided there's merit, not when you're too dumb not to spill a cup of coffee in your lap and then sue for $6million - that's what I'm against. And for the record, I had a guest just last week who was from Canada and she had nothing positive to say about her medical situation there, in fact she's bringing her son to Seattle to get some medical attention. There are countless stories like this. I'm sure for some Canadian approach works better than for others, but only for some... same with ours.

Anyway, speaking of work - I better run. I wish jorjor, skwirlinator and debbyski many more years of good health.

Isn't this all a shame...imagine if we had a forum just about health care for the citizens in every state. Then the government officials and senators could see how bad it really is.

Of course I doubt any of them would want to volunteer to report on what the average person goes through because of our health or health care issues.

But having a forum would provide a good way to get up petitions...if they ( the ones in government on our behalf ) aren't going to do anything about it, why can't we force the it ?

"They" are the one's who brought up the "Quality of Life" saying but aren't doing a damn thing about it.
That's why we have organizations and charities who get government grants to a...

Isn't this all a shame...imagine if we had a forum just about health care for the citizens in every state. Then the government officials and senators could see how bad it really is.

Of course I doubt any of them would want to volunteer to report on what the average person goes through because of our health or health care issues.

But having a forum would provide a good way to get up petitions...if they ( the ones in government on our behalf ) aren't going to do anything about it, why can't we force the it ?

"They" are the one's who brought up the "Quality of Life" saying but aren't doing a damn thing about it.
That's why we have organizations and charities who get government grants to at least help some people, but I found out that many of them don't have the money to much advertising, so many people don't even know that they qualify. How stupid is that...I think a lot of citizens would love to help and get the word out the best they can, if they would just let us know about it.

Oh and I haven't heard too much on "Quality of Life" lately...I bet they want to push that saying under the rug to. They don't want any one to be labeled as uninsured... don't talk about it and we will pretend it's not happening....like there is no problem.

Hey people !!! We have problems!!!

Until Medicare Part D was started up, I had a no-copay on my prescription medications; full price at the local Walgreens or CVS was nearly half my monthly income. I turned to a Canadian internet pharmacy and ended up paying a third of that. At one point, my doctor sent me to a Wal-Mart, which was advertising $7.00 per prescription. They charged me $30.00 per, and refused to explain the difference.

Every year, there's a deductable on my Medicare amounting to more than my monthly income. On the occasions when I have had to get medical treatment, I have run up bills which I am unable to pay unless I give up such things as food, rent and utilities. So, the bills don't get paid, the clinic o...

Until Medicare Part D was started up, I had a no-copay on my prescription medications; full price at the local Walgreens or CVS was nearly half my monthly income. I turned to a Canadian internet pharmacy and ended up paying a third of that. At one point, my doctor sent me to a Wal-Mart, which was advertising $7.00 per prescription. They charged me $30.00 per, and refused to explain the difference.

Every year, there's a deductable on my Medicare amounting to more than my monthly income. On the occasions when I have had to get medical treatment, I have run up bills which I am unable to pay unless I give up such things as food, rent and utilities. So, the bills don't get paid, the clinic or hospital gets stiffed and collection agencies go after me. This year is eight full months old, but I haven't been to the doctor so far because of that deductible. This is not a good situation for all involved.

Thank you RS. IMHO, I'd like to see more of our tax dollars spent not on a insane cold war style military build up, but for things that benefit us like a better infastructure and health care for all our citizens. I hear these stories like the ones from Skwril and Jorjor and I only wish they could have the health insurance my family does. I have a $5.00 co-pay for the doctor visits until $100.00 yearly co-pay is met and all the in hospital is absolutely free. Prescription drugs are a $5.00 co-pay per prescription until a yearly fee of $50.00 is met. I'm never sick. I don't go to the doctor unless it's for an annual screening. But I'd like to speak further on this lawsuit thing. The fa...

Thank you RS. IMHO, I'd like to see more of our tax dollars spent not on a insane cold war style military build up, but for things that benefit us like a better infastructure and health care for all our citizens. I hear these stories like the ones from Skwril and Jorjor and I only wish they could have the health insurance my family does. I have a $5.00 co-pay for the doctor visits until $100.00 yearly co-pay is met and all the in hospital is absolutely free. Prescription drugs are a $5.00 co-pay per prescription until a yearly fee of $50.00 is met. I'm never sick. I don't go to the doctor unless it's for an annual screening. But I'd like to speak further on this lawsuit thing. The fantasy is that one wins the lawsuit lottery when you file. The reality is that you can get ripped off so easily. When my husband was crushed in the coal mines by a roof-bolting machine that had a dangerous design on it, we got involved in a lawsuit with another lady who had lost her husband from the same dangerous design. Seems that the company we sued knew the design was faulty and loved settling with people rather than removing the design. It caused many many deaths from head injuries. I'll never forget the day my husband was crushed. I worked in a hospital and the day I got that call I knew that hospital only took severe cases. I fully expected to go there and see my husband dead. My neighbor watched our two little girls and I drove there like a maniac crying the whole way. When I saw my husband was going to live I was so happy I couldn't even talk. When I saw his injury, the room started spinning and the doctors actually physically left him and came over to me and asked me if I was ok. (I could hear their voices echoing in the background over that loud train whistle playing in my head)
The lady we were in the lawsuit with wasn't so lucky. Her husband had broken his leg and she went to the hospital fully (cont)

expecting him to have another broken leg or something like that. When she got there, they told her he was dead. She told me she threw herself on the floor and cried and screamed hysterically. I can't even imagine it. Anyway, it was a four year battle with attorney's, and depositions and private detectives; you name it. I can't tell you how little money we ended up with. I can tell you this though. The lady in the lawsuit with us ended up a millionaire. How much good did all that money do her? Well, she died a year later. Maybe it was the stress. Maybe it was a broken heart. Maybe it was both; who knows? But I'm proud of this and so was she. We got that unsafe design off that ma...

expecting him to have another broken leg or something like that. When she got there, they told her he was dead. She told me she threw herself on the floor and cried and screamed hysterically. I can't even imagine it. Anyway, it was a four year battle with attorney's, and depositions and private detectives; you name it. I can't tell you how little money we ended up with. I can tell you this though. The lady in the lawsuit with us ended up a millionaire. How much good did all that money do her? Well, she died a year later. Maybe it was the stress. Maybe it was a broken heart. Maybe it was both; who knows? But I'm proud of this and so was she. We got that unsafe design off that machine, and no one else can ever get hurt that way again.

debbyski, don't get me wrong. Your story is very sad (although I'm very glad your husband at least escaped death) and in that kind of circumstance - absolutely these people should've been sued... but the problem we have is (as you stated) is that the process is lengthy and it's the lawyers who make a mint - that's wrong. In a case like you mentioned - I'd like to see a single trial and for a hefty sum, VAST MAJORITY of which going to the victims, NOT their lawyers. After a second accident with the same problem - I'd like to see this company sued again, but the verdict not just being a payment or settlement, but mandatory closure. These kinds of companies don't deserve to be in business. ...

debbyski, don't get me wrong. Your story is very sad (although I'm very glad your husband at least escaped death) and in that kind of circumstance - absolutely these people should've been sued... but the problem we have is (as you stated) is that the process is lengthy and it's the lawyers who make a mint - that's wrong. In a case like you mentioned - I'd like to see a single trial and for a hefty sum, VAST MAJORITY of which going to the victims, NOT their lawyers. After a second accident with the same problem - I'd like to see this company sued again, but the verdict not just being a payment or settlement, but mandatory closure. These kinds of companies don't deserve to be in business. I'm all for making a buck, but not at the expense of people's lives. In other words - I'd like to see a situation where there's definitely a fair trial, but total intolerance for shyster lawyers, frivolous law suits etc. In your case, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see this being an open and shot case in your favor. This is NOT however the kind of case I'm against.

NonStatusQuo is right - insurance companies aren't set up to assist, considering all their rules. My son was born with 'pre-existing condition'. I won't bore anyone with the painful details or how much it costs each time we have to take him to the hospital - I'll just say it's something I wouldn't wish on anyone. I agree that things need to change. People with pre-existing conditions deserve to have healthcare as much as people without those... the concept of insurance is to collect money until it's needed. The insurance I get for my home doesn't have a pre-condition asking how much I like to play with matches, although that clearly could make a difference in the deal. Healthcare insurance should be simplified to be the same - you're buying insurance and using it when needed. That's why I like MSA approach, where each person pays a reasonable amount into their account and if they get something catast

I agree with you RS. The problem is that we need attorney's cause you can't play in the ball game unless you know how to bat. For large cases like that you need an attorney. They took 33 percent and EXPENSES (which were very costly) and here was the kicker. The accident happened at work and worker's comp paid for the medical, and you are allowed to ask for those damages in the lawsuit. BUT, (and the attorney DID NOT disclose this until the day of settlement) you must pay that money back to the state. Our attorney said that he never tells his clients cause it "bums" them out. Now, an arbitrator wanted to give us 2/3 thirds and give our attorney's one third and drop the costs to the atto...

I agree with you RS. The problem is that we need attorney's cause you can't play in the ball game unless you know how to bat. For large cases like that you need an attorney. They took 33 percent and EXPENSES (which were very costly) and here was the kicker. The accident happened at work and worker's comp paid for the medical, and you are allowed to ask for those damages in the lawsuit. BUT, (and the attorney DID NOT disclose this until the day of settlement) you must pay that money back to the state. Our attorney said that he never tells his clients cause it "bums" them out. Now, an arbitrator wanted to give us 2/3 thirds and give our attorney's one third and drop the costs to the attorneys. Not ever in my life has I seen attorneys go ape-sh**. The arbitrator argued that all the costs and research essentially were done with the other lady in our lawsuit and had been paid, but our attorneys threatened to walk out and sue us for the costs!! So they had us over a barrel. Sadly, this happens all too often.

While all of this is going on - what happened to a dr just doing the best for a patient? The first thing out of my dr mouth is "Specialist". Don't they have to be able to take samples and run tests themselves before they can do dr work?
I pay my co-pay BEFORE I am seen
I pay for car repairs after they are done.
If they are not done right - I don't pay and the job must be done right before I do.
$102 is quite a sum for taking someones vitals and writing a prescription. They ask me everytime what prescriptions I am taking, what I am allergic to and what is wrong with me - They have my records right in front of them. They look at them when they say my name - Hell they don't even know my name. B...

While all of this is going on - what happened to a dr just doing the best for a patient? The first thing out of my dr mouth is "Specialist". Don't they have to be able to take samples and run tests themselves before they can do dr work?
I pay my co-pay BEFORE I am seen
I pay for car repairs after they are done.
If they are not done right - I don't pay and the job must be done right before I do.
$102 is quite a sum for taking someones vitals and writing a prescription. They ask me everytime what prescriptions I am taking, what I am allergic to and what is wrong with me - They have my records right in front of them. They look at them when they say my name - Hell they don't even know my name. But they know what insurance I have. They take my checks.
I pay my $25 copay for my $2.50 script?
I'm so pissed off right now I cant think

I think most doctors do want to do the best for their patients, but the decision rests with corporate bureaucrats. A friend whose husband had been treated since childhood for epilepsy suggested that as the cause of my symptoms; the husband agreed. I brought it up and discussed it with my doctor, who was overruled by a bean counter. Had I been tested and treated, a woman would not have been killed in an accident and I would have been spared a yearlong series of court hearings, loss of job and home, and narrowly escaping imprisonment on charges of vehicular homicide.

Sometimes these harebrained decisions, based solely on the bottom line, affect more than just the patient and immediate fami...

I think most doctors do want to do the best for their patients, but the decision rests with corporate bureaucrats. A friend whose husband had been treated since childhood for epilepsy suggested that as the cause of my symptoms; the husband agreed. I brought it up and discussed it with my doctor, who was overruled by a bean counter. Had I been tested and treated, a woman would not have been killed in an accident and I would have been spared a yearlong series of court hearings, loss of job and home, and narrowly escaping imprisonment on charges of vehicular homicide.

Sometimes these harebrained decisions, based solely on the bottom line, affect more than just the patient and immediate family. I'm just lucky that I had a violent seizure in time to be diagnosed properly before I ended up in prison. I was declared the firs person to be happy about having epilepsy.