willhelm said:

You do not have to own companies to have totalitarian control over them.

Exactly. This is an old argument. For example, here's a nice quote from Mises in Socialism: An Economic and Sociological Analysis

Mises said:

Ownership is power of disposal, and when this power of disposal is divorced from its traditional name and handed over to a legal institution which bears a new name, the old terminology is essentially unimportant in the matter. Not the word but the thing must be considered. Limitation of the rights of owners as well as formal transference is a means of socialization. If the State take...

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willhelm said:

You do not have to own companies to have totalitarian control over them.

Exactly. This is an old argument. For example, here's a nice quote from Mises in Socialism: An Economic and Sociological Analysis

Mises said:

Ownership is power of disposal, and when this power of disposal is divorced from its traditional name and handed over to a legal institution which bears a new name, the old terminology is essentially unimportant in the matter. Not the word but the thing must be considered. Limitation of the rights of owners as well as formal transference is a means of socialization. If the State takes the power of disposal from the owner piecemeal, by extending its influence over production; if its power to determine what direction production shall take and what kind of production there shall be, is increased, then the owner is left at last with nothing except the empty name of ownership, and property has passed into the hands of the State.

The sad reality is the firm, unyielding mind that holds to its preconceived non-reality. Bartender seems proud to display how "non-socialist" America is without the slightest hint of understanding about the socialist or fascist reality. He seems to me to be a steadfast ideological anarchist, which I find admirable in an independent sort of way. But the independence always gets hung up when dealing in the real world, outside of conspiracy theories and shadow governments. I like batendennder's point of view, though. It has a post-modern ring to it that I find interesting, despite is regular tirades to lash out at my direction.

The point remains that this government is only 5 months old and i...

The sad reality is the firm, unyielding mind that holds to its preconceived non-reality. Bartender seems proud to display how "non-socialist" America is without the slightest hint of understanding about the socialist or fascist reality. He seems to me to be a steadfast ideological anarchist, which I find admirable in an independent sort of way. But the independence always gets hung up when dealing in the real world, outside of conspiracy theories and shadow governments. I like batendennder's point of view, though. It has a post-modern ring to it that I find interesting, despite is regular tirades to lash out at my direction.

The point remains that this government is only 5 months old and is already more "socialist" in the realm of industry ownership than were the Nazis. One can only wonder how many more crises we do not want to let go to waste.

Ideological anarchist? Yeah, that's for sure. That old joke about not wanting to be a member of any group that would have me as one has been a hallmark of my life. You've never met me before, unlike the sheeple of the world for whom once you have met one you have met many; their minds and lives trapped in paths defined by others to whom they willfully subjugate themselves. I'm not them. I'm used to that status. That's why you find me interesting. Certainly, I am only a man and am subject to those same foibles, for the world is much bigger than me, but that part is unseen to you, in part thanks to the medium in which we co-exist and again due to my anarchist nature and my willingness to expre...

Ideological anarchist? Yeah, that's for sure. That old joke about not wanting to be a member of any group that would have me as one has been a hallmark of my life. You've never met me before, unlike the sheeple of the world for whom once you have met one you have met many; their minds and lives trapped in paths defined by others to whom they willfully subjugate themselves. I'm not them. I'm used to that status. That's why you find me interesting. Certainly, I am only a man and am subject to those same foibles, for the world is much bigger than me, but that part is unseen to you, in part thanks to the medium in which we co-exist and again due to my anarchist nature and my willingness to express it. I don't fit in boxes. Never have, never will. When you are born an outsider, you have to learn to live and thrive as an outsider. Welcome to the outside, willie. It's an astounding place.

Not understanding socialist or fascist reality? Hung up when dealing with the real world? You're getting closer, willie, but you're not yet there. Try disrespecting and ignoring. That's the path of an idealist. A new paradigm cannot be constructed with respect to the old. Any reference to the old is incidental and any respect paid to it destroys the hope of the final outcome of the new. Worrying about respecting so-called "reality" only takes away from understanding what "reality" should be. It is part fascist and part socialist and part democratic and part a whole bunch of other shit. Does believing that make me insane? Not really, only on the edge of sanity. Thing is, you can’t change the edge from the middle. To effect change you have to get out to the edge and push.

Tirades in your direction? Only because you are able to take them and benefit from them. They are the tides that wash the sands that scratch your shell; that shell you seek in your inner-most to leave behind. Maybe you'll get there, maybe you won't. That's up to you. I'm just one player on the stage before you.