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ouyangwulongfollowshare
1-15-2008 8:39 PM
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What people fail to appreciate is that Europe was never as pure as we imagine it. Western culture developed in tandem with Eastern culture, not separately. Most European ethnicities originally came from Central Asian populations.

The process of redefinition and cultural influence has been going on in Europe for centuries. Short-sighted people like Le Pen are not just foolish for wanting to stop it, but for even thinking they can.

A culture cannot isolate itself from the world. This was true during the Medieval Crusades, and it is even more true today.

Immigration is the fundamental nature of man. Isolation is the basic reaction of the ignorant and fearful.

Of course, Europe has never been bashful about imposing its culture over local cultures around the world. Could the immigration debate be a vestigial reflex of imperialism?
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1-15-2008 10:12 PM
Antara
I think people need to challenge the insane mindset that is attached to Islam. I like debates so that ideas can be aired and opened up for scrutiny. Many have very little idea of what is being taught by some of these Imams.

Check out "Undercover Mosque"....a documentary on mosques in Britain. Scary Stuff.

Complacency is not the answer
1-16-2008 12:42 AM
ouyangwulong
You do have a point, many have no idea what is being taught by Imams, or even what an Imam is for that matter.

Fortunately, this is my field of expertise.

Imams are Shi'i leaders. Shi'i Islam works a little more like Christian Catholicism, in that it invests spiritual authority in a living charismatic leader, who although not a prophet, is capable of issuing theological judgments that are seen to be divinely inspired and essentially infallible.

As a result, to non-Shi'i, it often seems that Imams simply say whatever they want and cloak it in divine authority. While this is not the case, Shi'i doctrine certainly is less stable.

Sunni Muslims, however, do not have Imams, per say. Instead, ...
1-16-2008 4:58 AM
Fast T friend
Shi'i, Sunni, Catholic or Rabbinical, Patriotism, Nationalism, "Culturalism"...
No doctrine is a good doctrine.
1-16-2008 8:02 AM
ouyangwulong
But see, I feel like we have to reject Marine Le Pen's essential proposition: that we our culture is threatened by diversity. Isn't it obvious that all these cultures, European, Middle-Eastern, or Arab, are a product of synthesis, not isolation?

And what doe Mmme. Le Pen mean for us to do? She says it is easier for someone with the name Marine to get a job in France than somebody named Fatima, and that's the way it should be. But doesn't she realize that it's easier for someone named Mary to get a job in Nebraska than someone named Marine? Is she seriously welcoming the idea of universal discrimination against all that is foreign?

Ethnicity is not a fortress. Society has no bastions behind...
1-16-2008 9:58 AM
Fast T friend
ouyangwulong, lots to say on the issues you raise, and yes, it is anything but simplified. yet, keeping it short I will say:
1. life works through diversity, societies too, at times, and at times societies or parts of them embrace seclusion for various purposes.
2. sometimes diversity threatens certain agendas and views, I'm quite certain that's how Ms. Le pen feels in these regards.
3. I personally do not accept Le Pen's view as expressed in this clip. I don't think these views are very intelligent or beautiful, or even that they will survive. However - I don't have the need to call her views or my opposition view 'idiocy' or 'truth'.
4. as to respect, i don't really think it is advantageo...
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