 Spiritualmonkey says: In the past, similar "anomalies" have revolutionized our world, like in the sixteenth century, when a set of celestial anomalies led Copernicus to realize that the Earth goes around the sun and not the reverse, and in the 1770s, when two chemists discovered oxygen because of experimental results that defied all the theories of the day.The chapter on free will (and why it probably doesn't exist) is fascinating, with MASSIVE social implications for an entire justice system built on the premise of personal responsibility for our actions. A highly interesting book that will make you think. "Science starts to get interesting when things don’t make sense. " But if we have no free will then our justice system is no more at fault or responsible for its actions than those who are in it, no? We may not have free will, but we must act like we do (we have no other choice). But if we have no free will then our justice system is no more at fault or responsible for its actions than those who are in it, no?Well, given that we have a very punishment-based justice system, the question is not "is the system at fault?" but "is the system just?" Punishment, and the threat of punishment, have never demonstrated any ability to make people be "good", and are premised on the idea that someone "knows right from wrong and chooses wrong of their own free will". We call this "justice". But if the idea of "free will" is not scientifically demonstrable (and in fact the opposite quite likely is), is our idea of justice... just? We may not hav... what spiritualmonkey said. Only slower, with fewer fancy words, and a "yep" and "ya'll" or two thrown in. Wait wait wait. Some of those things are bogus. "Homeopathic remedies seem to have biological effects that cannot be explained by chemistry " Completely false. The statement should be "Homeopathic remedies seem to have biological effects that cannot be accepted by people that believe in woo science so claim chemistry just doesn't understand" "Gases have been detected on Mars that could only have come from carbon-based life forms " I smell Richard Hoagland. Blatantly false. Science is quite aware of a number of possibilities that explains possible NON biological sources. "Cold fusion, theoretically impossibl ..." This reminds me of those uneducated and misconceived "bumble bees shouldn'... @Oortcloud: When you've actually read the book, this thread will be here to discuss it. It's a book about challenging assumptions about what we actually know and what the evidence indicates, and where our current models don't match up. Brooks cites all his evidence and whom he's spoken to. Feel free to read the book and bring up challenges then. But you come across as if to say "We've got it all figured out." I (and a lot of very-schooled people with initials after their names) disagree with that stance. BTW, this isn't The Dancing Wu-Li Masters or The Tao of Physics*, the kind of books I suspect you're trying to tar this one as. As someone who thinks it's all crap from the start, I'd be particularly interested in your opinions after you've read it. Because then we could actually be discussing what the book says, and the evidence it offers. ------ * I'm someone with a Zen practice. But I'm against the type of "Physics explains Mysticism" appraoch these books offer, because what happens when tomorrows understanding of science causes a complete revolution in how we think? Does Buddha loose his enlightenment? What I will say is that many of the leading physicists of teh 20th cen... blue is green and yellow. roses take on the scent of the flowers around them. It's all in the mind. If you don't believe green and yellow make blue, then you're right. If you love the way a rose smells, then you're wrong. The mind can make the person believe or disbelieve in something so strongly that right becomes wrong and wrong becomes right. To try and explain why or how that can be, is a perception of each individual mind. Take my old knee problem for instance. I had injured it as a kid and as an adult it was giving me fits. I had been to doctors and each of them gave it some big name for the problem and symptom. I was telling my sister about it and she said let me see it. I did. She sa... Monkey -- Looks like you have sparked an interesting metaphysical debate. My own thinking is much too muddled to really post anything more than questions and reactions. I think we have to act like we have free will or we will go crazy - that and if we truly have no free will then our acting as if we do is something we have no control over. As I type the above my mind rebels at the implications. I have spent my life as a rationalist with mysticism relegated to the shadows. Now mysticism is forcing itself into my consciousness and I'm beginning to be presented with situations that as I interpret them make me question my sanity. If the title of the book can't even reflect reality, then why bother? there's no fun in reality? Well, if this is being looked at as a humorous piece then that's different. If the title of the book can't even reflect reality, then why bother?Let me get this straight... Are you arguing that there are no unexplained scientific anomalies out there for which there is solid experimental evidence, but which go against our current understanding of scientific principles? Are you actually saying that there are no more mysteries to solve in Science, no further revolutions? Another subject discussed: Are the laws of physics as we know the the same the Universe over, or just local to our minuscule part? I don't have the book with me, but I believe it's Voyager I & II that's are discussed. Both have moved far beyond the Solar system. And according to the... There was a time when phlogiston theory explained combustion, and chemists who argued in favor of oxygen were laughed at. Until the structure of scientific knowledge underwent a radical revolution and oxygen chemistry took over*. The thing about scientific revolutions is that they involve saying "What we thought we knew about how things worked turned out to be not incomplete (or entirely wrong)." That's in fact how science works. ----- * Oxygen chemistry won out when all the young chemists adopted it and all the old borderline-alchemists died off. Oortcloud said: Well, if this is being looked at as a humorous piece then that's different. I find it humorous that you seem to think everything is cut and dried. The unknown is non existant. People who think outside the box are clueless. That is so far from reality! "Narrow minded people live in tiny little worlds" I don't have the book with me, but I believe it's Voyager I & II that's are discussed. Both have moved far beyond the Solar system. And according to the readings they send back, both are deviating from their flight path.From the NASA website :
I'd hardly call it something unexpected and unexplainable. Are you actually saying that ... |
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