 debbyski says: "A very large church in New York where I've spoken before did not want me to come and talk about this book. They said that after several guest ministers spoke against the Iraq War, people had left the congregation and threatened to resign their membership. These issues have become really matters of keeping your job." The religious right feels threatened by the Social Gospel of Jesus for a number of reasons. One, IMO, is that they are more concerned with an afterlife than they are with practicing what Jesus said. What could be more Christ-like than universal health care? These issues have become really matters of keeping your job.On the whole, is it about faith, or business? It depends who you ask, I suppose, and how honest they are, and is that interesting in itself. Afterlife is safe - it doesn't rock anybody's boat. American conservative religion is so bonded to patriotism that much of the radicality of Jesus has been siphoned off. You'll find US flags in church sanctuaries, and patriotic festivals on national holidays. Never mind that we have no record of Jesus ever preaching "you must be born again" publicly. It's the message that doesn't call into question the pro-war, anti-poor bias of our nation. It's the American version of the Chinese 3-self church: worship all you like, just don't question anything with a flag on it. @debbyski they do have a strong belief in whatever they conceive of as Jesus and his resurrection.Hi. You focus on the message of Jesus. They focus on the bible as the word of god. They are 180 degrees out of phase. ------ BTW: I read Borg's The God We Never Knew. I understand his meaning of panentheism (at first I thought it was pantheism), but for me it never reconciled the differences between the social gospel and the bible itself. Similar to your dilemma above, (Jesus vs. the bible), it's like you have to take sides. Do you take the bible at its word? Or do you take the message of Jesus? You can't do both with integrity. But ... How can "they" be holding true when what they believe is a LIE? How can "they" be holding true when what they believe is a LIE?They do not believe it is a lie, they believe the bible is the word of god. Good clip Debbyski! My Living Samsara website...you may be interested in reading my writings on the *real* Jesus versus the Ecclesiastical Jesus church's have adopted. I have settled this dispute in my mind by claiming gnosticism. The Jesus in many denominations today seem to have their texts confused. They claim Jesus on one hand [from the New Testament] but on the left hand they judge and condemn from the Old Testament. Jesus of Nazareth came and tried teaching people to *not* follow the Pharisees...to stop with the external superstitions and the old Law. He taught that our Kingdom of Heaven resides inside ... from the INSIDE - if our spirit is right - then the rest will follow... Clas... I read what you are saying, digits, as that you have faith but not religion. @BB... Well, yes. Even to the extent I even really despise religion when it's an excuse to be divisive, hurtful, mean, cruel or "bomb-astic"... However, if there ever were a Church of Gnosticism I would sign up yesterday. But there's not - not in mainstream - because it's primarily an intellectual endeavor coupled with faith. I think, perhaps, the closest book that I could ascribe my *religion* to would be Sermon on the Mount. Emmett Fox does a wonderful job of dissecting Jesus' message from its biblical intent. I believe fundamentally that all spiritual endeavors have a place among each other...even those that have religions attached to them. However, the religions I see today do... Hi Aces! I liked your willingness to check out Borg's book, and yes I take the message of Jesus, but as I've said earlier, it's not about the literal word of the Bible. At Mass, after reading some biblical passages, we would always say "This is the Word Of The Lord" and I would always whisper under my breath, "Or some Words of Wisdom From Ancient Israel."  But that kind of explains it in a nutshell for me if you get what I mean. @Digits--yes, exactly; and when you focus on the Sermon on the Mount, you do focus on Jesus' message, but what helps for me is also to understand the political times of empire and the historical context, along with the metaphorical meanings to put it all in persp... But of course - I missed that whole "single-payer tax-funded health care" thing in the Sermon on the Mount That's not the only thing you missed NStuff. |
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