I find it a little hard to believe that religious people, who hold nearly 90% of the population of America, can claim being discriminated against, especially when they point the finger at atheist. The hypocrisy of religion never ceases to amaze me.

You really have to be have to shutting your eyes to reality if you buy into this. If religious people are being discriminated against, it is from other religious people. And of course, the non believer catches the blame again.

Their focus is against Hitchens. One man, who wrote a book against religion. Where is the discrimination? Who is losing what because of what he wrote? They don't like or agree with what he published so they are going to ca...

I find it a little hard to believe that religious people, who hold nearly 90% of the population of America, can claim being discriminated against, especially when they point the finger at atheist. The hypocrisy of religion never ceases to amaze me.

You really have to be have to shutting your eyes to reality if you buy into this. If religious people are being discriminated against, it is from other religious people. And of course, the non believer catches the blame again.

Their focus is against Hitchens. One man, who wrote a book against religion. Where is the discrimination? Who is losing what because of what he wrote? They don't like or agree with what he published so they are going to call discrimination? Give me a break. These people only prove the claims laid against them by Hitchens.

Sheeple led to complain about things that are not true, led to believe that a specific group is the core of their problems. Who's really being discriminated against here? Bunch of spin doctoring hypocrites.

Er... where? I read the entire thing and it boiled down to the author claiming there are wide range of religions and how dare the atheists dare to speak out against them?

Where is the part where 90% of the population is being discriminated against? How can the majority of the population suffer discrimination? This accusation is asinine.

This is an attempt to label opponents to religion as haters to turn public opinion against them. Would you consider my speaking lowly of rapists and murders as a hate crime? Do you think I am practicing hate speech if I belittle and besmirch con artists, thieves, and thugs?

Religion is a cancer on society. It offers nothing that cannot be had without it...

Er... where? I read the entire thing and it boiled down to the author claiming there are wide range of religions and how dare the atheists dare to speak out against them?

Where is the part where 90% of the population is being discriminated against? How can the majority of the population suffer discrimination? This accusation is asinine.

This is an attempt to label opponents to religion as haters to turn public opinion against them. Would you consider my speaking lowly of rapists and murders as a hate crime? Do you think I am practicing hate speech if I belittle and besmirch con artists, thieves, and thugs?

Religion is a cancer on society. It offers nothing that cannot be had without it and is based on mythology and lies. Any good it offers was plagiarized from other religions and societies that existed long before it did. It is an institution that offers some good, but protects and hides much more bad. Do away with it. Let people face reality. Religion is something that we can do without.

It is not hatred to speak out against that which preys on society - that is preservation. I read the accusations of Eboo Patel and I can only picture a criminal whining about "those rotten Pigs" and "the man" that keeps holding them down.

Give me a break. If religion has something real say then say it. If the best defense it can muster is "those that speak against religion are haters" then that speaks volumes about how poor your defense is. Maybe its a time for a reality check. Maybe its time to wonder why the best defense is to make the other guy look bad rather than resting upon the facts that defend your belief.

It doesn't matter what else he has to say on other issues.

You're missing the point, he doesn't have any other issue to talk about, this is the only issue he deals with, fair and square. It makes all the sense that you counter the religious fundamentalists with religious tolerance, it makes no sense to have 90% majority (if you perceive all of them to be the problem) killed by 10% minority. His answers are from within, not from outside.

Religion has never disappeared from the face of the earth, no matter how we dislike, it is here to stay. Eboo's bottom line is to grab the youths for the positives of religion, before the fanatics grab them for the negatives of it. I'm all ...

It doesn't matter what else he has to say on other issues.

You're missing the point, he doesn't have any other issue to talk about, this is the only issue he deals with, fair and square. It makes all the sense that you counter the religious fundamentalists with religious tolerance, it makes no sense to have 90% majority (if you perceive all of them to be the problem) killed by 10% minority. His answers are from within, not from outside.

Religion has never disappeared from the face of the earth, no matter how we dislike, it is here to stay. Eboo's bottom line is to grab the youths for the positives of religion, before the fanatics grab them for the negatives of it. I'm all for it as I do not think atheism is capable of grabbing anyone for long.

Religion has never disappeared from the face of the earth, no matter how we dislike

No, but it has morphed from one system to another, splintered into hundreds of factions. Just as science has had many areas of study that have not panned out and been abandoned because our knowledge grew and showed us it didn't work, so can that same knowledge eventually get through to people still holding onto bronze age mythologies. Phrenology, Alchemy, Graphology, and Trepanning are but a few disciplines that receive no scholarly attention today because after enough failure people finally accepted their fiction.

I believe religion will join this list one day. In the very least people will r...

Religion has never disappeared from the face of the earth, no matter how we dislike

No, but it has morphed from one system to another, splintered into hundreds of factions. Just as science has had many areas of study that have not panned out and been abandoned because our knowledge grew and showed us it didn't work, so can that same knowledge eventually get through to people still holding onto bronze age mythologies. Phrenology, Alchemy, Graphology, and Trepanning are but a few disciplines that receive no scholarly attention today because after enough failure people finally accepted their fiction.

I believe religion will join this list one day. In the very least people will realize that the gods of today are complete fabrication. Maybe the next man made religions will be a bit more tolerant and peaceful, but until that time, I see no reason to extend respect to todays religion where none is deserved.

I'm all for it as I do not think atheism is capable of grabbing anyone for long

I think we are at a turning point in history. At no other time has knowledge been so freely available and social connection so tightly interwoven. I foresee a very near future where humanity is networked intimately with one another as the technology of communication grows. One day we will no longer hang up the phone, but be available right on the periphery, if not directly tuned into, each others thoughts and feelings. The technology is here, today. It just needs to be organized and distributed.

Right now the believers have the majority - but I wonder how those numbers will change as the die hard believers simply die off and our younger generations step into control.

Harris baldly states that there is no significant difference between
religious moderates and religious extremists and claims that the
world’s problems are the fault of religious people. Here is a
characteristic quote from one of his posts:
“America is now a nation of 300 million people, wielding more influence
than any people in human history, and yet this influence is being
steadily corrupted, and is surely waning, because 240 million of these
people apparently believe that Jesus will return someday and
orchestrate the end of the world with his magic powers.”

This type of talk is anything but civil and illuminating. It seeks to
degrade people – very many peo...

read more»

Harris baldly states that there is no significant difference between
religious moderates and religious extremists and claims that the
world’s problems are the fault of religious people. Here is a
characteristic quote from one of his posts:
“America is now a nation of 300 million people, wielding more influence
than any people in human history, and yet this influence is being
steadily corrupted, and is surely waning, because 240 million of these
people apparently believe that Jesus will return someday and
orchestrate the end of the world with his magic powers.”

This type of talk is anything but civil and illuminating. It seeks to
degrade people – very many people, in fact. It blames an entire
category for the decline of a nation, and the problems in the world. It
blatantly states that award-winning writers will think less of you if
you go to church with your parents, recite from the Qur’an with your
uncle, sit in meditation with your grandparents.

The first clip refers to EXACTLY what Christians say they believe: that Jesus will return. This is exactly what Christians profess every time they recite their creed. No wonder Eboo Patel find it offensive when someone simply says it for what it is--and stops sugar coating it in all kinds of airy fairy allegory and symbolism.

Eboo Patel says this talk is anything but civil and illuninating? I beg to disagree....it is the subject matter that is causing the nausea, not the one who merely points it out. The very fact that Sam Harris has been so successful in finding a listening audience in todays world is NOT (as this author very sneakily tries to slide in) due to the "filthy" nature of our discourse on religion....but it is the various religion's TRUE historical foundations and absurd claims that provide the "filth".

It's often not nice to look at these foundations and claims up close...and what these authors have done is ask people to REALLY look at what they say they believe. Do you really believe in a virgin birth? Do you really believe Jesus is coming back to get only YOU and the few other chosen ones? Did Mohommed ride a horse into Heaven? Is every word of the Quran REALLY dictated from god??? Do women really need 4 witnesses to prove their innocence in accusing someone of Rape? Etc etc.....many a middle of the roader has felt the heat of such rarely asked questions, and rightly so....for many have had to admit they DO NOT believe in this bag of lies at all. Hence, they are not a true Christian, Mus...

It's often not nice to look at these foundations and claims up close...and what these authors have done is ask people to REALLY look at what they say they believe. Do you really believe in a virgin birth? Do you really believe Jesus is coming back to get only YOU and the few other chosen ones? Did Mohommed ride a horse into Heaven? Is every word of the Quran REALLY dictated from god??? Do women really need 4 witnesses to prove their innocence in accusing someone of Rape? Etc etc.....many a middle of the roader has felt the heat of such rarely asked questions, and rightly so....for many have had to admit they DO NOT believe in this bag of lies at all. Hence, they are not a true Christian, Muslim, whatever--regardless of what family they were born into.
Furthermore, Sam Harris is a big proponent of what he calls "Rational Mysticism"....and wants to reclaim the wonder and awe inducing techniques of some of what has previously been thought of as "religious" activity. For example, he encourages meditation and practices of the sort that we ALL are built for....beautiful stress reducing, loving/intelligent actions that are open for us all....not just the bag of tricks for those who say they are religious. So the charge that he or others would "laugh" at those who "meditate with their grandparents" is a baseless fabrication.

I read this article carefully and have come away highly suspicious of his motives. Calling Sam Harris/Christopher Hitchens names like "hate speech writers" is a silly ploy to quell what it is I think HE really hates: the real truth of what it means to call oneself a Christian, Muslim or whatever. It's allegiance to a story alright, but a story that involves one hell of a lot of bullshit..and that exposed bullshit is what causes his pain. Nobody likes a truth teller....and I bet in his case, this kind of exposure ain't good for business He might not like what it is WE see as what it is that truly "unites" many faiths, lol.

I get the feeling too tha

t this kind of debate makes people, religious or otherwise, very uncomfortable. This is as it should be as no one said growing up was painless or easy. It is to our credit that we stay anchored in dialogue and committed to discourse, no matter how distasteful we may find each others positions.
What I feel is way out of line however, is Eboo Patel calling Sam Harris/Chris Hitchens "hate speech writers". If he can't handle being under the relentless and penetrating gaze of anyone who has the audacity to question many of the various Religions supernatural claims...then let him say so. But Crying "hate-speech" due to his own inability to counter the query's with sufficient evidence as to it's c...

t this kind of debate makes people, religious or otherwise, very uncomfortable. This is as it should be as no one said growing up was painless or easy. It is to our credit that we stay anchored in dialogue and committed to discourse, no matter how distasteful we may find each others positions.
What I feel is way out of line however, is Eboo Patel calling Sam Harris/Chris Hitchens "hate speech writers". If he can't handle being under the relentless and penetrating gaze of anyone who has the audacity to question many of the various Religions supernatural claims...then let him say so. But Crying "hate-speech" due to his own inability to counter the query's with sufficient evidence as to it's continued relevance and value for our world....is pathetic.

n2sooners said:

south africa

Is America a dictatorship? Is the Christian population held down to poverty level and not allowed any position of power in which affect their beliefs? The United States military is nearly a theocracy in its own right. What are the specificications that the majority of Americans demand in their political leaders again? Oh, that would be a requirement to believe in God?

Let's keep the perspective in reality.

Antara said:

If he can't handle being under the relentless and penetrating gaze of anyone who has the audacity to question many of the various Religions supernatural claims...then let him say so. But Crying "hate-speech" due to his own inability to c...

read more»

n2sooners said:

south africa

Is America a dictatorship? Is the Christian population held down to poverty level and not allowed any position of power in which affect their beliefs? The United States military is nearly a theocracy in its own right. What are the specificications that the majority of Americans demand in their political leaders again? Oh, that would be a requirement to believe in God?

Let's keep the perspective in reality.

Antara said:

If he can't handle being under the relentless and penetrating gaze of anyone who has the audacity to question many of the various Religions supernatural claims...then let him say so. But Crying "hate-speech" due to his own inability to counter the query's with sufficient evidence as to it's continued relevance and value for our world....is pathetic.

So spot on it needed saying twice.