Efrain, that is an ungodly stereotype without a shred of evidence to back it up.

The only research I have seen on causes for abortion comes overwhelmingly down to one word: poverty. "Perhaps," mom reasons, "I'll lose my job when they find out I'm pregnant." Or, "I could never afford pre-natal care - what's going to happen to this baby?" Or, "We can barely feed the children we have now - will adding another mean taking away their only hope of having an education? Will it mean the ones we have now won't have enough to eat? Will we lose our home and raise them on the street? Will it be less suffering for all if we abort this baby early?"

You will doubtless dislike each of these question...

Efrain, that is an ungodly stereotype without a shred of evidence to back it up.

The only research I have seen on causes for abortion comes overwhelmingly down to one word: poverty. "Perhaps," mom reasons, "I'll lose my job when they find out I'm pregnant." Or, "I could never afford pre-natal care - what's going to happen to this baby?" Or, "We can barely feed the children we have now - will adding another mean taking away their only hope of having an education? Will it mean the ones we have now won't have enough to eat? Will we lose our home and raise them on the street? Will it be less suffering for all if we abort this baby early?"

You will doubtless dislike each of these questions. But don't pretend for a moment that a woman's choice is not excruciatingly difficult. The "easy way out" nonsense is pure propaganda, and utterly without factual support. There are no easy ways out.

And it should be clear why countries that care for women's health and job security have the world's lowest abortion rates: fear of robbing the children who are already part of the family is gone.

Crusade for outlawing abortion if you like; but don't labor under the notion that much will be accomplished until the root causes are addressed. If babies truly have a "right to life," they have a right to be well-fed and well cared-for. Until that is mended, I fear the "right to life" is a hard-hearted hoax.

@ wiccantexan

OK, Efrain, put up the stats.

Gladly.

The Alan Guttmacher Institute (a pro-abortion research organization), classifies abortions into "hard cases" and "elective." Among the hard cases, 0.3% of pregnant women who seek abortions are due to rape or incest. These women became pregnant against their will as opposed to the 99.7% who willingly or electively chose sexual intercourse.

Among the elective or personal choice (98%):
32% are too young and unready for responsibility
30% for economic issues
16% do want to adjust their lifestyle
12-13% are involved in a poor relationship
4-8% already have desired amount of children

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/a...

@ wiccantexan

OK, Efrain, put up the stats.

Gladly.

The Alan Guttmacher Institute (a pro-abortion research organization), classifies abortions into "hard cases" and "elective." Among the hard cases, 0.3% of pregnant women who seek abortions are due to rape or incest. These women became pregnant against their will as opposed to the 99.7% who willingly or electively chose sexual intercourse.

Among the elective or personal choice (98%):
32% are too young and unready for responsibility
30% for economic issues
16% do want to adjust their lifestyle
12-13% are involved in a poor relationship
4-8% already have desired amount of children

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/abreasons.html

A "consequence" to sexual intercourse is pregnancy. If the 98% are unwilling to have children for the above reasons, they should be responsible and not put themselves in these situations. I see nothing but selfishness from the 98% group, they would rather terminate the life of their child than to bear the responsibility or to change their lifestyle.

@ masbury

Efrain, that is an ungodly stereotype without a shred of evidence to back it up.

Ungodly? Excuse me?

As a Christian to another, let me remind you of the praise the Psalmist gives to God, "For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb." (Psalm 139:13)

The Lord revealed to Jeremiah that He knew him before he was born, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations." That's right, the Lord formed Jeremiah in the womb as He did with all of us.

Now prayerfully, take a look at the following images: http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/photosbyage/ind...

@ masbury

Efrain, that is an ungodly stereotype without a shred of evidence to back it up.

Ungodly? Excuse me?

As a Christian to another, let me remind you of the praise the Psalmist gives to God, "For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb." (Psalm 139:13)

The Lord revealed to Jeremiah that He knew him before he was born, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations." That's right, the Lord formed Jeremiah in the womb as He did with all of us.

Now prayerfully, take a look at the following images: http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/photosbyage/index.htm

http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/photosassorted/index.htm

http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/abortionimages/malachi.jpg

Read the procedures done by the abortionists: http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/medical/suctionexplanation.htm

Honestly, am I ungodly because of my stance? Or is the actual procedure ungodly?

You will doubtless dislike each of these questions.

I've been in these situations and then some. My first child was born when my then girlfriend (now wife) and myself were barely 18. I had no job, no H.S. diploma (then), no money. My daughter may not have the same material things her peers may have, but she is an honor roll student and desires to become a pediatrician. I assure you that financial status is secondary.

The only research I have seen on causes for abortion comes overwhelmingly down to one word: poverty.

May I remind you also that our Lord was born in manger poorest of the poor and if poverty is an excuse for abortion, then it follows that Mary should have had that same right.

Willingly accepting or having sexual intercourse does not equate to wanting an abortion!

Your numbers actually SUPPORT the choice of abortion for some people. 32% are too young - so you want to destroy the life of a young man and woman because you want to take a moral high horse? And in the majority of instances create an environment that will only spit out another kid from a broken family.

30% of them cant afford the child, but you want to force them to have it anyway?! Wow, talk about responsibility...

13% are already in a poor relationship so what are the chances of a happy family there - If they get preggers then FORCE them to live in misery and destroy another life in the process -...

Willingly accepting or having sexual intercourse does not equate to wanting an abortion!

Your numbers actually SUPPORT the choice of abortion for some people. 32% are too young - so you want to destroy the life of a young man and woman because you want to take a moral high horse? And in the majority of instances create an environment that will only spit out another kid from a broken family.

30% of them cant afford the child, but you want to force them to have it anyway?! Wow, talk about responsibility...

13% are already in a poor relationship so what are the chances of a happy family there - If they get preggers then FORCE them to live in misery and destroy another life in the process - and hey! If we force them to stick it out, I wonder how many more miserable children they will pop out during their unhappy lifetime together. And I bet the tension, pressure, and probable rage in the family certainly won't turn out any dark children will it?

And for those that already have enough? Too bad! Even if you are already married and have reached the family size that can't take anymore then the moral superior are going to step into your bedroom and tell you that you are not allowed to have sex because if you have a child its your own fault! No abortions for you because its obvious you get off on having them just like having sex!

You may want to validate your stance with dishonest information, but it doesn't change the fact that its bullshit.

Efrain, this is what I described as ungodly:

Most women who seek an abortion go through it because it interferes with their personal life and would rather terminate the life of their child than to sacrifice their lifestyle

Jesus would never so stereotype people, many of whom are in desperately difficult situations. Find one instance where Jesus criticizes a person who, in a terribly difficult moment, made such a decision.

Mercy toward the child is no excuse for merciless stereotyping of women who felt like abortion was the only reasonable outcome. You may disagree with them, but assuming you understand their motives and labeling them as selfish is far from the nature of the ...

Efrain, this is what I described as ungodly:

Most women who seek an abortion go through it because it interferes with their personal life and would rather terminate the life of their child than to sacrifice their lifestyle

Jesus would never so stereotype people, many of whom are in desperately difficult situations. Find one instance where Jesus criticizes a person who, in a terribly difficult moment, made such a decision.

Mercy toward the child is no excuse for merciless stereotyping of women who felt like abortion was the only reasonable outcome. You may disagree with them, but assuming you understand their motives and labeling them as selfish is far from the nature of the Prince of Peace. Check out the log in your own eye, my friend, and "judge not, that ye be not judged." You've never been in their shoes.

Obama's voting record and actions totally, absolutely contradict your very statement.

The president swears to uphold the Constitution. Choice has been held by the SCOTUS to be the law of the land. Obama is obliged by law to defend that right.

Every single opposition to a pro-life bill that he has taken has been in response to legislative attempts that he believed obstructed that right as defined by the SCOTUS. The supposed instance of him voting for infanticide in Illinois is total hokum used by unscrupulous distorters to take him down politically - law was already on the books in Illinois requiring doctors to care for any child born alive. Those videos that suggest he favo...

Obama's voting record and actions totally, absolutely contradict your very statement.

The president swears to uphold the Constitution. Choice has been held by the SCOTUS to be the law of the land. Obama is obliged by law to defend that right.

Every single opposition to a pro-life bill that he has taken has been in response to legislative attempts that he believed obstructed that right as defined by the SCOTUS. The supposed instance of him voting for infanticide in Illinois is total hokum used by unscrupulous distorters to take him down politically - law was already on the books in Illinois requiring doctors to care for any child born alive. Those videos that suggest he favored leaving children out to die are outrageous lies. The bill was a thinly-veiled attempt to de-constitutionalize Illinois law, so as to make it vulnerable to Supreme Court challenge. His action did not result in one change in the practice of Illinois physicians, who are obliged by law to care for those who are born alive, regardless of how they come to that moment.

I find the comments suggesting that those who support abortion do so magnanimously to be the grossest of propaganda

ljgriffin, you might want to get out more. I know some of these people, and some of them live sacrificial, principled lives that would put most pro-lifers to shame.

The pro-life put-down depends upon assumptions that many Americans simply do not believe: that life begins at conception. I do not know when a human being has a soul; I do not know what life truly is. In fact, no one does! These are strongly held opinions. And you - and many others, in this movement known for its hostility - demonize not people who take human life, but people who disagree with your...

I find the comments suggesting that those who support abortion do so magnanimously to be the grossest of propaganda

ljgriffin, you might want to get out more. I know some of these people, and some of them live sacrificial, principled lives that would put most pro-lifers to shame.

The pro-life put-down depends upon assumptions that many Americans simply do not believe: that life begins at conception. I do not know when a human being has a soul; I do not know what life truly is. In fact, no one does! These are strongly held opinions. And you - and many others, in this movement known for its hostility - demonize not people who take human life, but people who disagree with your <i>opinion</i> about when human life begins. That it resembles human life, there can be no question. That it is the same as an independently-alive human being - this is pure opinion based on external similarities.

It boils down to this: in your position, people are murderers if you pronounce them so on the basis of your own opinion.

Mercy toward the child is no excuse for merciless stereotyping of women who felt like abortion was the only reasonable outcome.

Pointing out the facts by verifiable evidence for reasons on why women seek abortions is not stereotyping, at all. My criticism and intolerance has always been against the very act of abortion, not against the women. On the contrary, it is the abortion industry who misleads these women by emphasizing choice and not the life of the child.

The Prince of Peace in perfect accordance with His Father commands us to "choose life" Dt 30:19. It is an absolute disservice to the woman if one condones their actions as a choice, regardless of circumstance, than...

Mercy toward the child is no excuse for merciless stereotyping of women who felt like abortion was the only reasonable outcome.

Pointing out the facts by verifiable evidence for reasons on why women seek abortions is not stereotyping, at all. My criticism and intolerance has always been against the very act of abortion, not against the women. On the contrary, it is the abortion industry who misleads these women by emphasizing choice and not the life of the child.

The Prince of Peace in perfect accordance with His Father commands us to "choose life" Dt 30:19. It is an absolute disservice to the woman if one condones their actions as a choice, regardless of circumstance, than to show them the true Gospel of life.

The Lord Jesus commanded us to "love one another as I have loved you" and "there is no greater love than this, to give up one's own life for his friends." Love is sacrifice, at least true love is. Throughout the Gospel, Jesus blesses the poor because their hardships, struggles and sacrifices. He encourages them in their poverty but He would never condone the sin against the 6th commandment in order to alleviate their poverty.

God never relates to us to sacrifice others for our own benefit but rather sacrifice oneself for the benefit of others.

The pro-life put-down depends upon assumptions that many Americans simply do not believe: that life begins at conception.

Sorry Masbury, but truth does not depend on popularity. If your above statement is true, then that just shows us how dangerous ignorance is. Basic biology states:
1. Living things are highly organized.
2. All living things have an ability to acquire materials and energy.
3. All living things have an ability to respond to their environment.
4. All living things have an ability to reproduce.
5. All living things have an ability to adapt.

Since these five points apply to the single cell zygote at the moment of conception and contain their individual huma...

The pro-life put-down depends upon assumptions that many Americans simply do not believe: that life begins at conception.

Sorry Masbury, but truth does not depend on popularity. If your above statement is true, then that just shows us how dangerous ignorance is. Basic biology states:
1. Living things are highly organized.
2. All living things have an ability to acquire materials and energy.
3. All living things have an ability to respond to their environment.
4. All living things have an ability to reproduce.
5. All living things have an ability to adapt.

Since these five points apply to the single cell zygote at the moment of conception and contain their individual human DNA separate from the mother's and father's, then these are not assumptions but FACTS!

And thus, I will not take a life; I am pro-life.

But others are as certain that fetuses are not viable human life as you are that they are. And others genuinely believe that abortion is a brief suffering that is preferable to a lifetime of suffering. I do not say I agree with these positions; I just urge you to recognize that it is not fair to suggest that people are so depraved just because they hold views different from your own.

Even God's own law, in the days of its greatest severity - Exodus 21:22 - recommended a far more lenient and informal penalty for causing the death of a child in the womb than for causing the death of someone outside it (a capital offense). <i>Could God hims...

And thus, I will not take a life; I am pro-life.

But others are as certain that fetuses are not viable human life as you are that they are. And others genuinely believe that abortion is a brief suffering that is preferable to a lifetime of suffering. I do not say I agree with these positions; I just urge you to recognize that it is not fair to suggest that people are so depraved just because they hold views different from your own.

Even God's own law, in the days of its greatest severity - Exodus 21:22 - recommended a far more lenient and informal penalty for causing the death of a child in the womb than for causing the death of someone outside it (a capital offense). <i>Could God himself possibly see the two - the one in the womb and the one out of it - as the same, yet demand such a different response for the death of each?</i> How then can we so confidently call them the same today?

Have mercy, Efrain! Have it on all! Even have it for those who have done things that you believe to be terribly wrong. For Jesus "did not come into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved." Whatever you work for, my friend, work for it with a redemptive spirit. It's a lesson I invite you to pray that I will learn, as well.

I would hope that every woman who has an abortion faces it with a grim realization that it is ending a life (human or otherwise being at the heart of the debate). Anyone who doesn't think about that, or considers an abortion to be a simple, frivolous thing is truly a monster. One thing that both sides should agree with is that the "Abortion of Convenience" is a damnedable thing, and we should seek out ways of eliminating them. But, at the same time, we shouldn't force women to have babies that they are not prepared to care for unless an adoption option is arranged before the babe is born.

Something that neither side seems to consider is that the entire issue really boils down to choice; but...

I would hope that every woman who has an abortion faces it with a grim realization that it is ending a life (human or otherwise being at the heart of the debate). Anyone who doesn't think about that, or considers an abortion to be a simple, frivolous thing is truly a monster. One thing that both sides should agree with is that the "Abortion of Convenience" is a damnedable thing, and we should seek out ways of eliminating them. But, at the same time, we shouldn't force women to have babies that they are not prepared to care for unless an adoption option is arranged before the babe is born.

Something that neither side seems to consider is that the entire issue really boils down to choice; but not the choice that the Pro-Choice side thinks it is. That choice is the woman's choice of whether to have sex or not, because even with contraception, there is always a chance of pregnancy, so any time you have sex, you're potentially getting pregnant. A woman who is thoughtless, or careless, or flagrantly contemptuous about contraception and sex has given up her right to choice when she had sex, and any pregnancies that result from such activities are morally and humanly abhorrent.

However, if the woman is not careless, if she is sensible about sex, and she still becomes pregnant when she doesn't want to be, it's ethically wrong to deny abortion as an option. I personally think it's always a horrible thing, but it's not a perfect world that we live in, and we have to consider the woman's rights, and more importantly, her health. Of course, this would include times when the woman was raped; she was denied her choice by the rapist.

So maybe a third option is what both sides need? Neither Pro-Choice, nor Pro-Life, but rather Proper Choice.

But others are as certain that fetuses are not viable human life as you are that they are. And others genuinely believe that abortion is a brief suffering that is preferable to a lifetime of suffering. I do not say I agree with these positions; I just urge you to recognize that it is not fair to suggest that people are so depraved just because they hold views different from your own.

It is also not fair that 4,000 babies are tortured and killed in their mothers' womb everyday.

I recognize that some people are truly depraved, not because they do not hold my same belief system but because they have been led to believe that the abortion issue is a civil rights issue where one h...

But others are as certain that fetuses are not viable human life as you are that they are. And others genuinely believe that abortion is a brief suffering that is preferable to a lifetime of suffering. I do not say I agree with these positions; I just urge you to recognize that it is not fair to suggest that people are so depraved just because they hold views different from your own.

It is also not fair that 4,000 babies are tortured and killed in their mothers' womb everyday.

I recognize that some people are truly depraved, not because they do not hold my same belief system but because they have been led to believe that the abortion issue is a civil rights issue where one has the right to choose:

“In the Roe v. Wade decision, Justice Harry Blackmun wrote that, ‘(If the) suggestion of personhood [of the preborn] is established, the [abortion rights] case, of course, collapses, for the fetus’ right to life is then guaranteed specifically by the [14th] Amendment.”

This has long been established scientifically. People have been depraved of the truth and have been lied to by the legal system and the abortion industry or have been led to believe that the unborn are somehow sub-human.

Have mercy

It is merciful to inform others on the evil of abortion.

Even have it for those who have done things that you believe to be terribly wrong.

And I find it appalling that you as a Christian, would find it otherwise. What is unmerciful is to approve or condone abortion, simply because they hold a different viewpoint.

Certainly Jesus did not come to condemn the world but it is the individual who condemn themselves by their actions. Unmerciful is the one who does not reproach and instructs his neighbor.