Well avoiding doing wrong actually doesn't get you to heaven. If One person does good because of a fear of heaven and one person does good because they think its a good idea I tell you the truth they will both end up in the same place of torment.

As a Christian I try to do good simply because God tells me to. You know what, I've found its the best way to live. Its like using a remote control car they way the instruction say to use it. The way the manufacturer intended. Works much better than just trying it out ourselves.

C.S Lewis talks about human conscience and our moral law. Funny you bring it up, that is humans wanting to do good. Whether an atheist or Christian or Muslim or anyone see...

Well avoiding doing wrong actually doesn't get you to heaven. If One person does good because of a fear of heaven and one person does good because they think its a good idea I tell you the truth they will both end up in the same place of torment.

As a Christian I try to do good simply because God tells me to. You know what, I've found its the best way to live. Its like using a remote control car they way the instruction say to use it. The way the manufacturer intended. Works much better than just trying it out ourselves.

C.S Lewis talks about human conscience and our moral law. Funny you bring it up, that is humans wanting to do good. Whether an atheist or Christian or Muslim or anyone sees an innocent boy being beheaded, we all know its wrong. Why? Because God gave us consciences and a moral law by which we know what we ought to do.

Therefore if there is a moral law, there is a moral law giver (i.e God).

I strongly recommend you read Mere Christianity by CS Lewis-even as an atheist or agnostic. It plainly and intelligently defends the Christian belief.
A Quote from him:
"These, then, are the two points I wanted to make. First, that human beings, all over the earth, have this curious idea that they ought to behave in a certain way, and cannot really get rid of it. Secondly, that they do not in fact behave in that way. They know the Law of Nature; they break it. These two facts are the foundation of all clear thinking about ourselves and the universe we live in."

"...I tell you the truth they will both end up in the same place of torment."

I tell you the truth? Doesn't this presuppose a list of unproven assumptions? Immortality. Hell. Judgment by a god, or whatever...?

It is clear, you couldn't have given this any independent thought whatsoever. Let's take the first one.

Can you demonstrate any three people (of the BILLIONS that have died) to be immortal?

Truly, what differentiates your statement of so-called truth, and a fairy tale? What's the difference. Really?

What if your 21 year old child comes to you and follows a cult that claims to believe the moon is made of green cheese and governed by a green inv...

"...I tell you the truth they will both end up in the same place of torment."

I tell you the truth? Doesn't this presuppose a list of unproven assumptions? Immortality. Hell. Judgment by a god, or whatever...?

It is clear, you couldn't have given this any independent thought whatsoever. Let's take the first one.

Can you demonstrate any three people (of the BILLIONS that have died) to be immortal?

Truly, what differentiates your statement of so-called truth, and a fairy tale? What's the difference. Really?

What if your 21 year old child comes to you and follows a cult that claims to believe the moon is made of green cheese and governed by a green invisible gnat with super powers. And let's say that they really believe this!

How would you respond to your child?

This is not a rhetorical question! I really need to know, so I can get some sort of idea of how to respond to you.

I don't want to be insulting. But I DO want to understand how to communicate to someone who truly cannot differentiate between the real world and a make believe one.

Seriously.

Do you really think I would follow Jesus without thinking about it?

I know there are lots of Christians that probably don't think about it, and I do challenge you to have a crack at those people to get them thinking.

I have listened to podcasts by Ravi Zacharias that are really thought provoking, I'm not sure if you podcast but he argues much better than I do. I'm being honest with you, I'll admit that I've been a Christian for 7 years and am still getting into these debates to do with faith.

But I do have some points I'd like to make. My assumptions are not blindly followed.

Truly, what differentiates your statement of so-called truth, and a fairy tale? What's the difference. Re...

Do you really think I would follow Jesus without thinking about it?

I know there are lots of Christians that probably don't think about it, and I do challenge you to have a crack at those people to get them thinking.

I have listened to podcasts by Ravi Zacharias that are really thought provoking, I'm not sure if you podcast but he argues much better than I do. I'm being honest with you, I'll admit that I've been a Christian for 7 years and am still getting into these debates to do with faith.

But I do have some points I'd like to make. My assumptions are not blindly followed.

Truly, what differentiates your statement of so-called truth, and a fairy tale? What's the difference. Really?

Firstly, the difference between a fairy tale and Christianity is that apart from a few lunatics, no-one believes fairy tales as true. Whereas millions have faith in Jesus. Although thats not an argument for Christianity's truth, I just wanted to remind you of that fact.

What if your 21 year old child comes to you and follows a cult that
claims to believe the moon is made of green cheese and governed by a
green invisible gnat with super powers. And let's say that they really
believe this!

I appreciate your humour. Though I think you'll find Christians have a higher intelligence as you suppose. We are not completely dumb. I think if you listen to Ravi Zacharias or read C.S. Lewis's stuff you'll see that. We would not sacrifice our lives for something with no evidence. The spirit of God living in me is undeniable.

Can you demonstrate any three people (of the BILLIONS that have died) to be immortal?

Moses and Elijah (appeared at Transfiguration). Jesus (appeared resurrected). (Yes, I do believe the bible as true)

What would be the point of proving people as immortal anyway? Abraham talks about the exact same thing in Luke 16:31 "They will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.'"

And you didn't really respond about

Firstly, the difference between a fairy tale and Christianity is that apart from a few lunatics, no-one believes fairy tales as true. Whereas millions have faith in Jesus.

Your last sentence completely contradicts the first.

---

Can you demonstrate any three people (of the BILLIONS that have died) to be immortal?

Moses and Elijah (appeared at Transfiguration). Jesus (appeared resurrected). (Yes, I do believe the bible as true)

You can demonstrate their existence? Meaning, you can produce them and show that they are still alive? Please do. Where can I find these immortal people? (Other than as black ink on white paper.)

See. [u]If they are immor...

Firstly, the difference between a fairy tale and Christianity is that apart from a few lunatics, no-one believes fairy tales as true. Whereas millions have faith in Jesus.

Your last sentence completely contradicts the first.

---

Can you demonstrate any three people (of the BILLIONS that have died) to be immortal?

Moses and Elijah (appeared at Transfiguration). Jesus (appeared resurrected). (Yes, I do believe the bible as true)

You can demonstrate their existence? Meaning, you can produce them and show that they are still alive? Please do. Where can I find these immortal people? (Other than as black ink on white paper.)

See. If they are immortal, they're still alive. Can you demonstrate them as such, as per your answer? Or, once again...where you being dishonest? Please produce any of the above.

PS: Would I have to go to a make believe place to find Moses?

Your last sentence completely contradicts the first.

Does it? Oh, sorry. I guess what I was trying to say was that no-one believes fairy tales as true. But millions believe Christianity. So its a bit silly to compare the two.

You can demonstrate their existence? Meaning, you can produce them and
show that they are still alive? Please do. Where can I find these
immortal people? (Other than as black ink on white paper.)

You can find them in heaven. In which I pray I will see you, among other people.

The accounts of their physical appearance are in the Bible.

Unfortunately, I don't have the power to bring them back to life.

See. [u]If they are immorta...

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Your last sentence completely contradicts the first.

Does it? Oh, sorry. I guess what I was trying to say was that no-one believes fairy tales as true. But millions believe Christianity. So its a bit silly to compare the two.

You can demonstrate their existence? Meaning, you can produce them and
show that they are still alive? Please do. Where can I find these
immortal people? (Other than as black ink on white paper.)

You can find them in heaven. In which I pray I will see you, among other people.

The accounts of their physical appearance are in the Bible.

Unfortunately, I don't have the power to bring them back to life.

See. If they are immortal, they're still alive. Can you
demonstrate them as such, as per your answer? Or, once again...where
you being dishonest? Please produce any of the above.

No, I cannot demonstrate them. Apart from proving the accuracy of the Bible in which it says that they appeared?

Once again, I do not believe I'm being dishonest.

PS: Would I have to go to a make believe place to find Moses?

No- heaven.

I guess what I was trying to say was that no-one believes fairy tales as true. But millions believe Christianity. So its a bit silly to compare the two.

Millions of children believe in the tooth fairy. It's still a fairy tale, even if the number of believers is large. Is the Mormon story a fairy tale, or is it true? How about the Muslim story? The story of Krishna?

All with millions of believers each; which are true, and which are tales? It was not silly to compare the two (Christianity and the tooth fairy), it was a perfect analogy. In what way, if you disagree, do they differ?
---

" You can find them in heaven." "Unfortunately, I don't have the power to bring them...

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I guess what I was trying to say was that no-one believes fairy tales as true. But millions believe Christianity. So its a bit silly to compare the two.

Millions of children believe in the tooth fairy. It's still a fairy tale, even if the number of believers is large. Is the Mormon story a fairy tale, or is it true? How about the Muslim story? The story of Krishna?

All with millions of believers each; which are true, and which are tales? It was not silly to compare the two (Christianity and the tooth fairy), it was a perfect analogy. In what way, if you disagree, do they differ?
---

" You can find them in heaven." "Unfortunately, I don't have the power to bring them back to life."

I can find them in heaven? ... In other words, I can make believe.

Fact: you know of no heaven except in your mind. You have simply agreed to "pretend".

-- PS: Would I have to go to a make believe place to find Moses?

No- heaven.

The bible, since you think it's true, says heaven is the firmament (or descriptively the bottom or floor of heaven.) The firmament was described to hold the waters above, where we get rain when the doors and windows of heaven open to let the water out.

Are you sure you want to think the bible is true? Because that would make Moses just above the clouds...in heaven. Is he there? Really? And is that how we get rain? Really?

Secret: there's no firmament either. Ask a meteorologist. Here's another secret: the earth is not the oldest object in the universe (not even close). The stars weren't made on day 4, and snakes can't really talk.

Seriously, what would you say to someone who really couldn't tell the difference between a fairy tale and reality? Seriously?

These debates are so stupid. What if BOTH sides are wrong?

Why are they stupid? These discussions are about something very important that people struggle over. One is based on faith whilel the other is based on observation.

Both "sides" attempt to influence society based on their claims and change the way in which you live. One does it with promises that cannot be confirmed until after you die and relys on simply accepting it is true. It attempts to conform you into their idea of perfection and acceptance and stamp out anything that contradicts it.

The other strives to better improve the human condition and expand our understanding of the universe. It gladly accepts those t...

These debates are so stupid. What if BOTH sides are wrong?

Why are they stupid? These discussions are about something very important that people struggle over. One is based on faith whilel the other is based on observation.

Both "sides" attempt to influence society based on their claims and change the way in which you live. One does it with promises that cannot be confirmed until after you die and relys on simply accepting it is true. It attempts to conform you into their idea of perfection and acceptance and stamp out anything that contradicts it.

The other strives to better improve the human condition and expand our understanding of the universe. It gladly accepts those that challenge it so that it will continually improve itself. It draws conclusions based on repeatable observation.

Both sides are mutually exclusive because the truths that each side has contradicts the truths of the other. It is very important, imo, that people discuss this because it is an important issue.

It's only as important as you make it out to be.

Its not important for me to see anything but my own world. I am happy with my concept of reality and I don't care what anyone else thinks.

Why do people constantly need to have their beliefs reinforced by other people. Even if two people do agree- They are only agreeing with their own concept of the idea and not the true nature itself. Both sides are equally insane because neither can prove anything.

Be happy and content with conceding that you don't know the answer and you will understand that there is no point in the speculation. At that point any argument is insane.

I watch as the world goes round and round about what they cannot know...

It's only as important as you make it out to be.

Its not important for me to see anything but my own world. I am happy with my concept of reality and I don't care what anyone else thinks.

Why do people constantly need to have their beliefs reinforced by other people. Even if two people do agree- They are only agreeing with their own concept of the idea and not the true nature itself. Both sides are equally insane because neither can prove anything.

Be happy and content with conceding that you don't know the answer and you will understand that there is no point in the speculation. At that point any argument is insane.

I watch as the world goes round and round about what they cannot know. They kill and preach and scorn and argue to try to get others to see their reality and share their meaning of life to try to make it just. There is so much energy expended for personal gratification that they ignore the grace of life itself.

Its MY belief that when it all ends there will be many,many people that will be flabergasted at the results. Perhaps we will find that we are all just a single mind that has multiple personalities- LOL
Perhaps we are just random atoms that created a reality thru our collective conscience.

The point is nobody really, truly knows. It's silly to argue about it.

Millions of children believe in the tooth fairy.

I think the key word is children. The reason I said that millions of people believe Christianity was to separate it from the idea of being a fairy tale. I guess its kind of insulting that you would think that, not personally insulting but maybe since so many people do believe, its a bit harsh to insult their intelligence. I know lots of intelligent Christians. To name a few, Ravi Zacharias, John MacArthur, C.S. Lewis and Alister McGrath.

Is the Mormon story a fairy tale, or is it true? How about the Muslim story? The story of Krishna?

Good question. I wouldn't say they are fairy tales, most of them are...

Millions of children believe in the tooth fairy.

I think the key word is children. The reason I said that millions of people believe Christianity was to separate it from the idea of being a fairy tale. I guess its kind of insulting that you would think that, not personally insulting but maybe since so many people do believe, its a bit harsh to insult their intelligence. I know lots of intelligent Christians. To name a few, Ravi Zacharias, John MacArthur, C.S. Lewis and Alister McGrath.

Is the Mormon story a fairy tale, or is it true? How about the Muslim story? The story of Krishna?

Good question. I wouldn't say they are fairy tales, most of them are adaptations of the Christian faith (especially Mormon). The question is whether they rely on Jesus solely for salvation.

In what way, if you disagree, do they differ?

Millions of mature, educated people.

Are you sure you want to think the bible is true? Because that would
make Moses just above the clouds...in heaven. Is he there? Really? And
is that how we get rain? Really?

Mmm.. Interesting. What verses did you get that from? I'm actually reading a book on Heaven by Randy Alcorn at the moment. He argues it could be a physical place in the universe, but to be honest I haven't looked into it enough. I haven't heard that theory about heaven and rain before?

Seriously, what would you say to someone who really couldn't tell the difference between a fairy tale and reality? Seriously?

What would I say? I dunno. Not many people like that are there?

I don't think someone would believe that the moon is made of cheese because it is simply unreasonable. Just like I believe that saying there is no God is unreasonable. I see the evidence pointing towards God. And the challenges to that view from you and other people haven't stood up.

It's only as important as you make it out to be.

Matther 13:40-42 says eternal destruction

Mmm.. Interesting. What verses did you get that from? I'm actually reading a book on Heaven by Randy Alcorn at the moment. He argues it could be a physical place in the universe...

And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Gen 1:8 (KJV)

..and the windows of heaven were opened. 12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
Gen 7:11-12 (KJV)

and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained
Gen 8:2 (KJV)

etc..
---

God is just. This means people will get what they asked for. Like a murderer gets jail. We get hell. Unless we have Jesus as our Savior...

Right. God come...

Mmm.. Interesting. What verses did you get that from? I'm actually reading a book on Heaven by Randy Alcorn at the moment. He argues it could be a physical place in the universe...

And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Gen 1:8 (KJV)

..and the windows of heaven were opened. 12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
Gen 7:11-12 (KJV)

and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained
Gen 8:2 (KJV)

etc..
---

God is just. This means people will get what they asked for. Like a murderer gets jail. We get hell. Unless we have Jesus as our Savior...

Right. God comes to earth to have himself crucified in order to save his own creation from himself. Brilliant!

Listen, I know you're listening to a lot of people whose intent it is to indoctrinate you into a belief system, telling you you'll live forever if you believe, but will burn in hell if you don't.

But at some point, I suggest you listen to your own intellect. Examine these beliefs not for fear of punishment or expectation of reward, but for truthfulness alone.

Peace.

If there were no God, there would be no atheists.

We are all born atheists. Atheism is a lack of belief in theism. Doesn't matter if that lack is because of ignorance or through a determination that a claim is unfounded.

How to trap an atheist: Serve him a fine meal, then ask him if he believes there is a cook.

An atheist need only walk back into the kitchen to see the cook.

The atheist can't find God for the same reason that a thief can't find a police officer.

The thief avoids the cop to avoid punishment/jail, the atheist does not avoid god, simply sees no reason to believe that it is real based on the facts presented.

To be an atheist re...

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If there were no God, there would be no atheists.

We are all born atheists. Atheism is a lack of belief in theism. Doesn't matter if that lack is because of ignorance or through a determination that a claim is unfounded.

How to trap an atheist: Serve him a fine meal, then ask him if he believes there is a cook.

An atheist need only walk back into the kitchen to see the cook.

The atheist can't find God for the same reason that a thief can't find a police officer.

The thief avoids the cop to avoid punishment/jail, the atheist does not avoid god, simply sees no reason to believe that it is real based on the facts presented.

To be an atheist requires an infinitely greater measure of faith ...

Non belief does not require maintenance or convinction. The claim of god lacks credibility and does not warrent belief.

I had rather believe all the fables in the Legend ...

Which neither proves or disproves god. This merely shows that you have a personal opinion about something. No matter how badly you want something to be true, it still doesn't mean it is.

Atheism is rather in the lip than in the heart of man

This is simply a denial of reality. Describe the opposition in petulant terms allows you to have no requirement to actually consider their points and you can maintain your own beliefs without challenge.

If God does not exist, everything is permissible

Morality is not divine in origin. By accepting that everyone treat one another with respect then you can assume to be treated the same. It is self promoting to treat others with respect.

If the whole universe has no meaning...

Logical fallacy. God is not required for life to have meaning. Individuals assign meaning to their own lives.

The probability of life originating from accident ...

The origin of life is unknown (currently). The usuage of "randomness" is a gross mispresentation. While evoluti

Right. God comes to earth to have himself crucified in order to save his own creation from himself. Brilliant!

Yes, God's wrath (or anger) at people consistently disobeying and rebelling against Him is quite understandable. I could imagine it would be like your son running away and joining a gang or somehting. Quite heartbreaking I would assume.
So He came to earth and died and rose again, paid our fine, satisfied God's anger so that we didn't have to suffer- rose again, beating death, so we can to have eternal life with Him if we repent and believe.
Quite brilliant actually, yes.

Listen, I know you're listening to a lot of people whose intent it is to indoctrinat...

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Right. God comes to earth to have himself crucified in order to save his own creation from himself. Brilliant!

Yes, God's wrath (or anger) at people consistently disobeying and rebelling against Him is quite understandable. I could imagine it would be like your son running away and joining a gang or somehting. Quite heartbreaking I would assume.
So He came to earth and died and rose again, paid our fine, satisfied God's anger so that we didn't have to suffer- rose again, beating death, so we can to have eternal life with Him if we repent and believe.
Quite brilliant actually, yes.

Listen, I know you're listening to a lot of people whose intent it is to indoctrinate you into a belief system, telling you you'll live forever if you believe, but will burn in hell if you don't.

I listen to alot of people saying the opposite, too. I have listened to my own intellect. But is our own intellect enough? I also listen to my conscience, my emotions, my imagination, the world around me.

I come out at a point where that God is the truth.

Kircher, the astronomer, having an acquaintance who denied the existance of a Supreme Being

The celebrated astronomer, Kircher, had
an acquaintance who denied the existence of God.
Once this friend
happened to see a globe placed in the center of the room and inquired
whence it came and to whom it belonged.

“Not to me,’’ said Kircher,
“nor was it ever made by any person, but came here by mere chance.’’

“That,” replied the skeptical friend, “is absolutely impossible; you
surely jest.’’
Kircher, however, seriously persisting in his assertion
to reason with his friend on his own atheistic principles.

“You will
not,’’ said he “admit that this small body originated in mere chance,
and yet you would contend that those heavenly bodies, of which it is but
a faint resemblance came into existence without author or design.’’
He pursued this chain of reasoning till his friend was totally confounded, and

We are all born atheists.

I tend to agree

An atheist need only walk back into the kitchen to see the cook.

What if the cook is not physically available? I think you'd still believe.

The thief avoids the cop to avoid punishment/jail, the atheist does not
avoid god, simply sees no reason to believe that it is real based on
the facts presented.

I would disagree, I think they do avoid God. Because if they truly seeked Him, they would have to give up their pride and sins.

"When men live as if there was no God, it becomes expedient for them that there should be none; and then they endeavour to persuade themselves so." -John Tillotson

...

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We are all born atheists.

I tend to agree

An atheist need only walk back into the kitchen to see the cook.

What if the cook is not physically available? I think you'd still believe.

The thief avoids the cop to avoid punishment/jail, the atheist does not
avoid god, simply sees no reason to believe that it is real based on
the facts presented.

I would disagree, I think they do avoid God. Because if they truly seeked Him, they would have to give up their pride and sins.

"When men live as if there was no God, it becomes expedient for them that there should be none; and then they endeavour to persuade themselves so." -John Tillotson

Non belief does not require maintenance or convinction. The claim of god lacks credibility and does not warrent belief.

Isn't non-belief in some form a belief? Isn't it a conviction?

Morality is not divine in origin. By accepting that everyone treat one
another with respect then you can assume to be treated the same. It is
self promoting to treat others with respect.

Self promoting? Gee, I thought it was nice. Where then, do we get morality, if not from God?

I would disagree, I think they do avoid God. Because if they truly
seeked Him, they would have to give up their pride and sins.

I would hazzard to guess that this is an answer that makes you feel more comfortable - denial of what is right in front of you. Sorry, atheists do not avoid god or deny god. They simply see no reason to believe. It does sound better for you to claim that people secretly believe and deny, but in reality, its you just lying to yourself to feel better.

When men live as if there was no God, it becomes expedient for them that there should be none

Oh give me a fricken break. The worste crimes in history are caused by your lot. Abuse by chur...

I would disagree, I think they do avoid God. Because if they truly
seeked Him, they would have to give up their pride and sins.

I would hazzard to guess that this is an answer that makes you feel more comfortable - denial of what is right in front of you. Sorry, atheists do not avoid god or deny god. They simply see no reason to believe. It does sound better for you to claim that people secretly believe and deny, but in reality, its you just lying to yourself to feel better.

When men live as if there was no God, it becomes expedient for them that there should be none

Oh give me a fricken break. The worste crimes in history are caused by your lot. Abuse by church and clergy is common. Over 99% of people in prison are believers. Religion promotes intollerance, inequality between sexes, and child abuse. It condones murder, supports slavery, and is guilty of mass murder.

All in the name of god.

Isn't non-belief in some form a belief? Isn't it a conviction?

About as much as not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Where then, do we get morality, if not from God?

From humanity. Have you ever read the bible? Actually sat down and read it? How can you attribute morality to the god described in that book? Murderer, rapist, child abuser, thief, etc. The list goes on. How many has god killed in the bible vs how many Satan has killed? If that is your idea of morality then you are morally empty.

I don't need the idea of a god to keep me in line.

I would hazzard to guess that this is an answer that makes you feel more comfortable..

Not really, quite the opposite actually. Many people are headed for eternal torment. Thats not very comforting for me, hence my discussion with you.

..its you just lying to yourself to feel better

I don't know how lying to myself would make me feel better. As Aces Lucky says: "Thats intellectually dishonest".
So firstly, I don't see how lying to myself would be very satisfying at all- as it would only remove the sins and pride of which others enjoy for no particular purpose, moral or spiritual.

Secondly, it doesn't make me feel better. Sure, its more than comforting knowi...

I would hazzard to guess that this is an answer that makes you feel more comfortable..

Not really, quite the opposite actually. Many people are headed for eternal torment. Thats not very comforting for me, hence my discussion with you.

..its you just lying to yourself to feel better

I don't know how lying to myself would make me feel better. As Aces Lucky says: "Thats intellectually dishonest".
So firstly, I don't see how lying to myself would be very satisfying at all- as it would only remove the sins and pride of which others enjoy for no particular purpose, moral or spiritual.

Secondly, it doesn't make me feel better. Sure, its more than comforting knowing God's helping me, but having so many millions of people heading for apparent torment. That doesn't make me feel good.

All in the name of god.

Not really. They claim to do these things as Christians, but as it points out in 1 John 1: 5-10:
"This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us."

If people claim to be Christians but do these things:

Intollerance, inequality between sexes, child abuse, murder, supports slavery, mass murder.

Then they are liers. The Bible does not condone that. It is diametrically opposed.

P.S. Saying that Christians do bad things or that God does bad things is not an argument that God does not [i]exi

.. exist.

Yes I have read most of the Bible and I have read those things you talk about.

I believe I have quite good morals. That doesn't mean I don't stuff up.

Just like with hell, God gets angry at people sinning against Him. At rebelling. Just like you would against your Son if they ran away and started abusing your love.

Yes, God killed people. Just like He does every day, right? If your talking about in battle, then God has His chosen people. Often the chosen people fought against opposition, which since God was on their side, He destroyed.

He destroys those that oppose Him.That reject Him.
He didn't rape or abuse children. Please provide examples..

I don't need the idea...

.. exist.

Yes I have read most of the Bible and I have read those things you talk about.

I believe I have quite good morals. That doesn't mean I don't stuff up.

Just like with hell, God gets angry at people sinning against Him. At rebelling. Just like you would against your Son if they ran away and started abusing your love.

Yes, God killed people. Just like He does every day, right? If your talking about in battle, then God has His chosen people. Often the chosen people fought against opposition, which since God was on their side, He destroyed.

He destroys those that oppose Him.That reject Him.
He didn't rape or abuse children. Please provide examples..

I don't need the idea of a god to keep me in line.

Of course you don't. Because if you did then you'd have to humbly submit and refute your pride and sins. Just like I had to. And all other Christians had to. Its hard, I know. But with God's strength its possible. And trust me, its worth it!

A life in God's will on earth.
A life in God's presence in heaven.