Yes, let's just keep violating his rights, violating Habeas Corpus, denying him the chance to actually hear the charges against him and see the "evidence" against him. Why, if he were to be tried in an actual court, they might find him ....GASP! ... innocent (like over half of the detainees in Guantanimo)!

The people of the US have rejected the horrible joke of a limbo that is Gitmo in electing Obama and the Democrats. Now the states just have to stop being paranoid babies and accept these men into real prisons; these broken, lonely men who have been denied all forms of human kindness and hope for far too many years — people who are much more likely to turn to terrorism now after being in t...

Yes, let's just keep violating his rights, violating Habeas Corpus, denying him the chance to actually hear the charges against him and see the "evidence" against him. Why, if he were to be tried in an actual court, they might find him ....GASP! ... innocent (like over half of the detainees in Guantanimo)!

The people of the US have rejected the horrible joke of a limbo that is Gitmo in electing Obama and the Democrats. Now the states just have to stop being paranoid babies and accept these men into real prisons; these broken, lonely men who have been denied all forms of human kindness and hope for far too many years — people who are much more likely to turn to terrorism now after being in the horrible conditions of Gitmo if they weren't terrorists before. Now they really have a reason to hate America!

Oortcloud you said: The good citizens of the United States elected him so perhaps the only
joke here is when people like you fabricate outrages because you really
have nothing else on him?

Some of the citizens voted for him. Not all. And he is governing as if only those who voted for him have any say in how this country is run. He is supposed to be the President of the WHOLE UNITED STATES not just the democrat US which looks more like a Socialist US.

And then you add this Intellectual wonder:Because America is suppose to be the greatest country in the world and
donning such a hat brings a few responsibilities with it, like setting
an example.

America has done a...

Oortcloud you said: The good citizens of the United States elected him so perhaps the only
joke here is when people like you fabricate outrages because you really
have nothing else on him?

Some of the citizens voted for him. Not all. And he is governing as if only those who voted for him have any say in how this country is run. He is supposed to be the President of the WHOLE UNITED STATES not just the democrat US which looks more like a Socialist US.

And then you add this Intellectual wonder:Because America is suppose to be the greatest country in the world and
donning such a hat brings a few responsibilities with it, like setting
an example.

America has done a fantastic job in being a beacon of hope for the world. She has been called on throughout the years to come to the rescue of every two bit hood dictatorship around the world. And every time we leave the country better off than when we got there. AND YET we are still hated because of our support of Israel. I really do not give a darn what others say about this great country. I just desire to see her remain the land of the free and the home of the brave. The principles that made this country great have been undermined for many years by our own elected officials most from the left side of the aisle and it is because of those STATIST policies that we find America's light growing dim.

As far as the terrorists at Girmo are concerned, most of them have never lived as good as they are at CLUB GITMO. Besides it is a very well run prison, perhaps better run then many in America. There is room to hold a full trial at GITMO there really is not REASON to close this WELL RUN PRISON and transfer the PRISONERS to another PRISON. TRY them at GITMO and then release them or execute them there is no need to bring them here.

Unless, like Pakastan you want to give LAND TO THE TALBAN so they can fight you in your own country. Your postulation is just insane.

darkforces haters talking points says; The people of the US have rejected the horrible joke of a limbo that is Gitmo in electing Obama and the Democrats.

The facts are: From USA TODAY certainly not a LOONY RIGHT wing publication says this:

By more than 2-1, those surveyed say Guantanamo shouldn't be closed. By
more than 3-1, they oppose moving some of the accused terrorists housed
there to prisons in their own states.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement is it?

And from the Canadian Free Press, which I am sure you are not able to read being uneducated and all says this:

Sixty-five perce...

read more»

darkforces haters talking points says; The people of the US have rejected the horrible joke of a limbo that is Gitmo in electing Obama and the Democrats.

The facts are: From USA TODAY certainly not a LOONY RIGHT wing publication says this:

By more than 2-1, those surveyed say Guantanamo shouldn't be closed. By
more than 3-1, they oppose moving some of the accused terrorists housed
there to prisons in their own states.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement is it?

And from the Canadian Free Press, which I am sure you are not able to read being uneducated and all says this:

Sixty-five percent of Americans polled said they do not support closing
Guantanamo and sending its detainees to US prisons while just 32
percent said they did support the idea.

But what do you care you never let facts get in the way of your ideology but hey at least others will know how devoid of facts your comments are. Good day darkforce

Eaglewings, you are so incredibly ignorant that it hurts my brain to try to comprehend the incredible shallowness of your being. You are ass-backward on everything you post, and have no concept of reality whatsoever.

Obama was democratically elected, unlike Bush. I don't care if you never voted for him; your fellow citizens choose him, so he's YOUR president.

And you should be grateful. If McCain had ended up president, America would have fallen further into a hole that it would never emerge from whole. It would be fragmented into pieces, and still the most reviled country in the world. No one would want to work with you, and you would be waiting for the day when gung-ho Repu...

Eaglewings, you are so incredibly ignorant that it hurts my brain to try to comprehend the incredible shallowness of your being. You are ass-backward on everything you post, and have no concept of reality whatsoever.

Obama was democratically elected, unlike Bush. I don't care if you never voted for him; your fellow citizens choose him, so he's YOUR president.

And you should be grateful. If McCain had ended up president, America would have fallen further into a hole that it would never emerge from whole. It would be fragmented into pieces, and still the most reviled country in the world. No one would want to work with you, and you would be waiting for the day when gung-ho Republican bullshit finally pushed another country too far, and they would invade the US (not like you have any soldiers at home to defend you) and oust that fascist regime, to install a truly democratic parliamentary system.

Another lie from you. There is no such thing as the Canadian Free Press. You made that up to try to back your lies. Shameful, and typical of you.

You are nothing but a right-wing propaganda machine, probably paid by the Republicans to spread their lies and half-truths. You should be ashamed of yourself.

America has done a fantastic job in being a beacon of hope for the world. She has been called on throughout the years to come to the rescue of every two bit hood dictatorship around the world. And every time we leave the country better off than when we got there.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!

Just ask the typical Iraqi how much "better" their country is since the US invaded them for no reason. Rapes are up, Lawlessness is up. Women's Rights are down. Psychotic, battle-fatigued American Soldiers are oppressing them and killing them at the drop of a hat.

The US has been a busybody sticking it's nose where it doesn't belong, causing death, strife and destruction wherever it goes. An...

America has done a fantastic job in being a beacon of hope for the world. She has been called on throughout the years to come to the rescue of every two bit hood dictatorship around the world. And every time we leave the country better off than when we got there.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!

Just ask the typical Iraqi how much "better" their country is since the US invaded them for no reason. Rapes are up, Lawlessness is up. Women's Rights are down. Psychotic, battle-fatigued American Soldiers are oppressing them and killing them at the drop of a hat.

The US has been a busybody sticking it's nose where it doesn't belong, causing death, strife and destruction wherever it goes. And, unlike Iraq, Syria, Iran, Russia and Palestine, the US is the #1 state sponsor of terrorism.

Real good "beacon to the world", there. Americans are the most deluded and self-important people in the world.

Some of the citizens voted for him. Not all.

The majority voted for him, one of the largest in quite a while. It's how it works.

he is governing as if only those who voted for him have any say in how this country is run. He is supposed to be the President of the WHOLE UNITED STATES not just the democrat US which looks more like a Socialist US.

Are you kidding me?! How can we even discourse if you try and pass off obvious crap like this. Obama has made every effort to breach the growing gap between the left and the insane right. He is setting aside the war crimes of Bush and Cheney because he wants to avoid widening the gap. He doesn't want the rest of the tortur...

Some of the citizens voted for him. Not all.

The majority voted for him, one of the largest in quite a while. It's how it works.

he is governing as if only those who voted for him have any say in how this country is run. He is supposed to be the President of the WHOLE UNITED STATES not just the democrat US which looks more like a Socialist US.

Are you kidding me?! How can we even discourse if you try and pass off obvious crap like this. Obama has made every effort to breach the growing gap between the left and the insane right. He is setting aside the war crimes of Bush and Cheney because he wants to avoid widening the gap. He doesn't want the rest of the torture material released because it will only inflame more hatred to the republicans.

The principles that made this country great have been undermined for many years by our own elected officials most from the left side of the aisle

Blah blah bullshit. Who shredded the constitution during his term? How shredded habius corpus during their term? Who engulfed America in an unwarranted war? Who brought America on par with Nazi germany by allowing and using torture? Give me a break pal. Blaming the left indeed.

Yawn! I think I seen this movie already. It was boring the first time around and it is still boring.

Translation : I can't argue against what you say so I'll disseminate into insults claiming you said nothing.

Nope I spread the truth for free

Cough <bullshit> cough ... Here's a few rightist "truths" - "No new taxes!", "WMD's", trickledown economics.

me thinks oortcloud and darkforce are one in the same person because they are both full of hot air, blow hards, who stir up a great deal of dust, and they leave behind a great deal of destruction. From now on I am going to call them darkcloud. Makes it easier.

Why don't you two buffoons go bother someone else. You obviously disagree with EVERYTHING I stand for so go somewhere else where your views are appreciated.

I WILL never ever see things your way because your way is what is making this country worse each day.
OBAMA sucks as a President and will probably go down as the worst President in American History, and that just might be his greatest accomplishment considering he has a few very ...

me thinks oortcloud and darkforce are one in the same person because they are both full of hot air, blow hards, who stir up a great deal of dust, and they leave behind a great deal of destruction. From now on I am going to call them darkcloud. Makes it easier.

Why don't you two buffoons go bother someone else. You obviously disagree with EVERYTHING I stand for so go somewhere else where your views are appreciated.

I WILL never ever see things your way because your way is what is making this country worse each day.
OBAMA sucks as a President and will probably go down as the worst President in American History, and that just might be his greatest accomplishment considering he has a few very good contenders for the position. But I think he will win HANDS DOWN!

No go loose yourself in your tripe and drivel darkcloud.

The people of the US have rejected the horrible joke of a limbo that is Gitmo in electing Obama and the Democrats

This is proven false by most recent polls. Along with such things as Obama likeability or personal popularity as staying relatively high while opinion of his policies have dropped considerably as more of those aware among us see the results of those policies. And isn't it the socially timid American way to rationally point out the negatives they can no longer deny, while they wind up by saying "but I'm sure he's a good man" or "I'm sure he means well" or "Oh, he surely has our best intentions at heart, BUT...". People are basically hyper-aware of the itchy trigger-...

The people of the US have rejected the horrible joke of a limbo that is Gitmo in electing Obama and the Democrats

This is proven false by most recent polls. Along with such things as Obama likeability or personal popularity as staying relatively high while opinion of his policies have dropped considerably as more of those aware among us see the results of those policies. And isn't it the socially timid American way to rationally point out the negatives they can no longer deny, while they wind up by saying "but I'm sure he's a good man" or "I'm sure he means well" or "Oh, he surely has our best intentions at heart, BUT...". People are basically hyper-aware of the itchy trigger-finger towards racist accusations. Who wants to go on record as being personally fed-up with our first President of color?

Darkforce said:
You're a broken record, spouting the same propaganda and lies over and over again.

Spoken by a true propagandist.

and then he adds:

How about trying something radical, and actually thinking about the
logical merits of an issue, rather than just shooting from the guy and
acting irrational?

After that he adds this Pearl of great wisdom:

It's a good idea to try people in the prison they are in, but the
problem is that Gitmo is not a prison. It is a Gulag; a dungeon. It is
a place of torture and suffering, where the residents are stripped of
their rights and placed in a legal limbo. It is absolutely impossible
to run a fair trial from such ...

read more»

Darkforce said:
You're a broken record, spouting the same propaganda and lies over and over again.

Spoken by a true propagandist.

and then he adds:

How about trying something radical, and actually thinking about the
logical merits of an issue, rather than just shooting from the guy and
acting irrational?

After that he adds this Pearl of great wisdom:

It's a good idea to try people in the prison they are in, but the
problem is that Gitmo is not a prison. It is a Gulag; a dungeon. It is
a place of torture and suffering, where the residents are stripped of
their rights and placed in a legal limbo. It is absolutely impossible
to run a fair trial from such a place.

Mr Darkforce in his usual drive-by attacks gives no facts to support his assertions but just tosses them out as facts when indeed they are nothing more than propaganda.

Gitmo by some standards could be considered a country club. Denial of rights you mean the rights to eat Muslim food and be given Korans and prayer rugs and allowed to pray 6 times a day? Or do you mean the right to go free and blow things up and kill innocent people?

As far as dungeons go perhaps we should ask John McCain if GITMO would qualify as a dungeon. SUFFERING PLEASE these guys used to live in caves and strap bombs to themselves. GITMO is a country club by comparison.

As far as running a fair trial. A fair trial can be held anywhere. Or are you implying no matter where these men are tried they would not get a fair trial because AMERICA is not cabable of being fair?

And talking about rights what about the rights of the two American journalists who are being held WITHOUT A TRIAL in North Korea? Do you suppose that prison should be closed down and those prisoners be brought to AMERICA for a FAIR TRIAL? Or do rights only apply to your terrorist buddies?

Talk about your double standard and propagandizing.

Would any of your liberal commie friends like to address those FACTS?

And the feast de resistance is this gem:

Yes, I am proud to be nominally considered a liberal, but I'm truly a socialist, as any true Christian should be.

That puts him in the same company as... wait for it.... this is too good..... ready... okay here it comes....

HITLER'S WORST MISTAKE:
HE DIDN'T GAS THE JEWS.
by James von Brunn

Yep James von Brunn the jew hater who shot and killed the security guard at the Holocaust museum. He too was a "Christian socialist" I can see the resemblance.

One of James remarkable statements sounds just like darkforce see if you agree:

America is a Third-Wor[b]...

read more»

And the feast de resistance is this gem:

Yes, I am proud to be nominally considered a liberal, but I'm truly a socialist, as any true Christian should be.

That puts him in the same company as... wait for it.... this is too good..... ready... okay here it comes....

HITLER'S WORST MISTAKE:
HE DIDN'T GAS THE JEWS.
by James von Brunn

Yep James von Brunn the jew hater who shot and killed the security guard at the Holocaust museum. He too was a "Christian socialist" I can see the resemblance.

One of James remarkable statements sounds just like darkforce see if you agree:

America is a Third-World racial garbage-dump -- stupid, ignorant, dead-broke, and terminal.

Yep I think they are one in the same. Have fun darkie boy because you can not comment.

and to further add insult to dark's injury James von Brunn wrote these words which again sound a great deal like my dear censored friend dark's words;

The Gospels profess that only Christians may enter Yahweh's Kingdom of Heaven. To qualify, among other demands, Christians must LOVE THEIR ENEMIES (Jews); give away their personal belongings; eschew knowledge; judge not, despise nature, abandon earthly pleasures, acknowledge that all YHWH's children are equal; and above all else worship YHWH, the jealous, wrathful, vengeful, unforgiving, genocidal, anthropomorphic tribal god (Jesus' father) created by Hebrews in their image and likeness….The Big Lie technique, employed by Paul to creat...

and to further add insult to dark's injury James von Brunn wrote these words which again sound a great deal like my dear censored friend dark's words;

The Gospels profess that only Christians may enter Yahweh's Kingdom of Heaven. To qualify, among other demands, Christians must LOVE THEIR ENEMIES (Jews); give away their personal belongings; eschew knowledge; judge not, despise nature, abandon earthly pleasures, acknowledge that all YHWH's children are equal; and above all else worship YHWH, the jealous, wrathful, vengeful, unforgiving, genocidal, anthropomorphic tribal god (Jesus' father) created by Hebrews in their image and likeness….The Big Lie technique, employed by Paul to create the CHRISTIAN RELIGION, also was used to create the HOLOCAUST RELIGION ... CHRISTIANITY AND THE HOLOCAUST are HOAXES.

bobby first off the constitution applies to AMERICAN citizens not citizens of the world. That being said, the prisoners at Gitmo are not being mistreated they are being detained however.

The ones that were able to be released where and many not all but many have found themsevles right back on the battle field fighting against our soldiers.

The safety of American citizens must be the primary responsibility of our President, and the safety of our soldiers are as well. The gitmo detainees are not members of any particular ARMY or national forces they are terrorists. They do not abide by the rules of combat nor do they adhere to the Geneva convention.

Therefore by nature of their lawlessness ...

bobby first off the constitution applies to AMERICAN citizens not citizens of the world. That being said, the prisoners at Gitmo are not being mistreated they are being detained however.

The ones that were able to be released where and many not all but many have found themsevles right back on the battle field fighting against our soldiers.

The safety of American citizens must be the primary responsibility of our President, and the safety of our soldiers are as well. The gitmo detainees are not members of any particular ARMY or national forces they are terrorists. They do not abide by the rules of combat nor do they adhere to the Geneva convention.

Therefore by nature of their lawlessness what are we to do with them other than exterminate them and rid the planet of the vermin infestation?

Many would to be martyred perhaps we should oblige them? Whatever decisions that need to be made bringing terrorists into our own country is not wise, just look at the the problems Pakistan is having with the Taliban within their borders.

These fine folks at Gitmo have no respect for other peoples rights they are only intent on killing all infidels. That would include you as well bobby make no mistake about it.

I do not like the fact that we are spending a great deal of money on these terrorists so I think perhaps a compromise could be found. Let's say we drop them into the middle of nowhere and let them fend for themselves. If they survive then ALLAH saved them if not well then ALLAH did not save them. How does that sound?

But as far as bringing them home with me NOT A CHANCE! Only a fool would take a ticking time bomb to bed with them and then wonder what happened when it blow up.

And as far as the world is concerned. NONE of them want these dudes either. So perhaps the rest of the world is in favor of keeping GITMO GITMO?

The ones that were able to be released where and many not all but many
have found themsevles right back on the battle field fighting against
our soldiers.

1 in 7 return to terror (hat tip to clip-on-tie) ergo--6 in 7 do not?

the prisoners at Gitmo are not being mistreated

gitmo abuse (9 clipped articles)

This makes absolutely no sense to me. Why in heaven's name would we want to bring the enemy into our own camp.

Apparently there is very good evidence which will likely lead to a conviction-not the case for many detainees. Heaven forbid w...

The ones that were able to be released where and many not all but many
have found themsevles right back on the battle field fighting against
our soldiers.

1 in 7 return to terror (hat tip to clip-on-tie) ergo--6 in 7 do not?

the prisoners at Gitmo are not being mistreated

gitmo abuse (9 clipped articles)

This makes absolutely no sense to me. Why in heaven's name would we want to bring the enemy into our own camp.

Apparently there is very good evidence which will likely lead to a conviction-not the case for many detainees. Heaven forbid we try someone with little to no evidence against him, then have to set him free. The potentially innocent MUST stay locked up but off our soil, right, just in case?

tyranny=oppressive power exerted by government

Most have not been able to make a success of life and life's frustrations would have them hitting out at something else if racism wasn't available. Is it the same there?

Don't know. You offer no facts to back up your assertions therefore it is impossible to answer you charge. I can say this. People speak up about things they are passionate about.

I would like an answer from you guys and gals on the left.

Tell me what COMMON SENSE is it to CLOSE ONE PRISON and move PRISONERS (detainees= prisoners to those on the left) to another prison? Why not just leave them where they are?

And I have another question. How is it that you guys and gals on the left can VOCALIZE your Strong ...

Most have not been able to make a success of life and life's frustrations would have them hitting out at something else if racism wasn't available. Is it the same there?

Don't know. You offer no facts to back up your assertions therefore it is impossible to answer you charge. I can say this. People speak up about things they are passionate about.

I would like an answer from you guys and gals on the left.

Tell me what COMMON SENSE is it to CLOSE ONE PRISON and move PRISONERS (detainees= prisoners to those on the left) to another prison? Why not just leave them where they are?

And I have another question. How is it that you guys and gals on the left can VOCALIZE your Strong positions, and pontificate on your perceived biases but those on the opposing side are not afforded the same latitude in vocalizing theirs? I mean you folks generate just as many gigabytes of vitriolic blather as you claim those on the opposing side do. Why is it therefore okay for your side to do it but taboo for the other?

Isn't that the definition of hypocrisy? hypocrisy= saying one thing but doing another. You guys speak about tolerance and progressiveness yet you are neither tolerant nor progressive. Your views are regressive and intolerant. As the comments on this clip prove.

Now argue the merits of your position or shut up and go away.

I get so tired of repeating myself...

WHEN will people learn that there is no left or right and no choice, only the illusion of it.

Obama was no more elected than Kim Jong of N. Korea was.

You have to be pretty naive to believe that Bush was the only president who was chosen before the first vote was cast.
The electoral process is nothing more than a charade for people to waste all of their political energy on and it works very well judging from the comments here.

The US hasn't had a real president since Kennedy was shot, and He was originaly brought in to further the goals of international banking cartels, it was only after He got into office that He developed a conscience. Which u...

I get so tired of repeating myself...

WHEN will people learn that there is no left or right and no choice, only the illusion of it.

Obama was no more elected than Kim Jong of N. Korea was.

You have to be pretty naive to believe that Bush was the only president who was chosen before the first vote was cast.
The electoral process is nothing more than a charade for people to waste all of their political energy on and it works very well judging from the comments here.

The US hasn't had a real president since Kennedy was shot, and He was originaly brought in to further the goals of international banking cartels, it was only after He got into office that He developed a conscience. Which unfortunately for humanity cost Him His life.

The answer to 1984 is 1776.

Bobby said: We already have detained Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols.

They were American citizens. The detainees at Gitmo are neither not.

That is a HUGE difference.

and as to your ascertion concerning world perception. That is a circuitious argument because no matter what we do some one somewhere in the world will not approve. Therefore every action or inaction will be met with disdain and disapproval by someone.

You are also assuming that the detainees at GITMO are somehow being mis-treated. You agreed that they should be detained. SO WHY NOT LEAVE THEM WHERE THEY ARE?

They are already detained. They are being treated fairly in fact many of the detainees at GITMO have...

Bobby said: We already have detained Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols.

They were American citizens. The detainees at Gitmo are neither not.

That is a HUGE difference.

and as to your ascertion concerning world perception. That is a circuitious argument because no matter what we do some one somewhere in the world will not approve. Therefore every action or inaction will be met with disdain and disapproval by someone.

You are also assuming that the detainees at GITMO are somehow being mis-treated. You agreed that they should be detained. SO WHY NOT LEAVE THEM WHERE THEY ARE?

They are already detained. They are being treated fairly in fact many of the detainees at GITMO have more benefits bestowed upon them then an average AMERICAN CITIZEN.

I would love to have full medical care and a dental plan. I may need to have my teeth fixed and it would be nice to have that BENEFIT that these DETAINEES do.

Heaven forbid we try someone with little to no evidence against him, then have to set him free.

Other than being caught on the battlefield shooting at people? I guess that is not evidence enough. Or the fact that none of them have shown any repentance of their actions nor any intentions of changing their behavior once released.

The potentially innocent MUST stay locked up but off our soil, right, just in case?

No that was not the proposal either. but extending rights under the US Constitution to NON-CITIZENS is the issue.

1 in 7 return to killing people. Okay how about we release that 1 in 7 into your neighborhood so that they can kill you how do you feel abo...

Heaven forbid we try someone with little to no evidence against him, then have to set him free.

Other than being caught on the battlefield shooting at people? I guess that is not evidence enough. Or the fact that none of them have shown any repentance of their actions nor any intentions of changing their behavior once released.

The potentially innocent MUST stay locked up but off our soil, right, just in case?

No that was not the proposal either. but extending rights under the US Constitution to NON-CITIZENS is the issue.

1 in 7 return to killing people. Okay how about we release that 1 in 7 into your neighborhood so that they can kill you how do you feel about that?

Besides they are enemy combatants not your every day run of the mill lawbreaker. But why bother with details.

Regardless of whether Nichols and McViegh were American citizens they were still ruthless killers. Thus now the only difference you have in their detention is their national origin. Obviously we are not terrified to detain in the United States ruthless killers.

I never said anything about mis-treatment. You made that up. What I did say is that we are a democratic country that has a constitution that provides for individual liberty. Indefinite detention without trial, regardless of nationality or what soil you are standing on flies in the face of individual liberty and democracy.

Any conservative who voted for Bush, voted for a President who promised to spread democracy. Bush also said he ...

Regardless of whether Nichols and McViegh were American citizens they were still ruthless killers. Thus now the only difference you have in their detention is their national origin. Obviously we are not terrified to detain in the United States ruthless killers.

I never said anything about mis-treatment. You made that up. What I did say is that we are a democratic country that has a constitution that provides for individual liberty. Indefinite detention without trial, regardless of nationality or what soil you are standing on flies in the face of individual liberty and democracy.

Any conservative who voted for Bush, voted for a President who promised to spread democracy. Bush also said he would end tyranny. What is tyranny, " The office, authority, or jurisdiction of an absolute ruler". I would call indefinite detention without legal recourse tyranny. If you voted for Bush, you now find yourself in a hypocritical position.

What is tyranny,

it is spelled Obama.

As for the rest of your statements they are simply nonsensical.

You and the rest of your ilk are all for giving rights to terrorists and absolving criminals of heinous crimes and deny those same rights to a poor child who you would much rather seen ripped apart inside a woman's bowels than to offer any inkling of compassion or justice to. ALL IN THE NAMES OF INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS.

Non-citizen enemy combatants are not entitled to Constitutional rights, that is why there is a GENEVA convention which of course NONE of these detainees acknowledge either.

So now if you say we adhere to the Geneva convention in regards to enemy combatants then ...

What is tyranny,

it is spelled Obama.

As for the rest of your statements they are simply nonsensical.

You and the rest of your ilk are all for giving rights to terrorists and absolving criminals of heinous crimes and deny those same rights to a poor child who you would much rather seen ripped apart inside a woman's bowels than to offer any inkling of compassion or justice to. ALL IN THE NAMES OF INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS.

Non-citizen enemy combatants are not entitled to Constitutional rights, that is why there is a GENEVA convention which of course NONE of these detainees acknowledge either.

So now if you say we adhere to the Geneva convention in regards to enemy combatants then we may be able to hold a legitimate debate. But extending citizenship rights to non-citizen enemies of the state is INSANE!

Like most obamaniacs.

I think a legitimate debate is just what this clip needs.

One can be found at the following Senate Judiciary website. (Although technically a hearing and not a formal debate).

“The Legal, Moral, and National Security Consequences of 'Prolonged Detention'”

Even though the hearing was called by Subcommittee Chairman Senator Russ Feingold (a Democrat), both sides of this debate are equally presented and in a much more scholarly manner I might add. Republican Senator Tom Coburn, the Vice-Chairman is present also and gets to chime in with his opinion also.

It is 110 minutes long. I've watched the first 40 minutes. It's good. ...

I think a legitimate debate is just what this clip needs.

One can be found at the following Senate Judiciary website. (Although technically a hearing and not a formal debate).

“The Legal, Moral, and National Security Consequences of 'Prolonged Detention'”

Even though the hearing was called by Subcommittee Chairman Senator Russ Feingold (a Democrat), both sides of this debate are equally presented and in a much more scholarly manner I might add. Republican Senator Tom Coburn, the Vice-Chairman is present also and gets to chime in with his opinion also.

It is 110 minutes long. I've watched the first 40 minutes. It's good. You have to get in about 5-6 minutes before the video starts.

Heaven forbid we try someone with little to no evidence against him, then have to set him free.

Other than being caught on the battlefield shooting at people? I guess
that is not evidence enough. Or the fact that none of them have shown
any repentance of their actions nor any intentions of changing their
behavior once released.

You say none have shown repentance and all were caught shooting people. This statement is factually incorrect. There were plenty of detainees who were not swept up on the battlefield training with al qaeda or shooting Americans. Bush released many so called enemy combatants from gitmo before Obama even took office for that very reas...

Heaven forbid we try someone with little to no evidence against him, then have to set him free.

Other than being caught on the battlefield shooting at people? I guess
that is not evidence enough. Or the fact that none of them have shown
any repentance of their actions nor any intentions of changing their
behavior once released.

You say none have shown repentance and all were caught shooting people. This statement is factually incorrect. There were plenty of detainees who were not swept up on the battlefield training with al qaeda or shooting Americans. Bush released many so called enemy combatants from gitmo before Obama even took office for that very reason. The recidivism rate from American prisons is way higher than 1 in 7 so maybe anyone in prison should never come out? Do a little research, or I will be happy to provide it for you.

1 in 7 return to killing people. Okay how about we release that 1 in 7
into your neighborhood so that they can kill you how do you feel about
that?

While that statement is really sort of ludicrous as no one is suggesting we do anything of the sort, your argument seems to suggest we should lock up 6 people forever without trial for every one known really bad guy. Believe it or not, all Americans want a safer America, but some believe what we've done at gitmo made us less safe, beyond all the constitutional problems of this whole sorry mess. Eaglewings there is no denying you are a patriot-I get your patriotic fervor, but to deny those you disdain on the left as patriots also is ignorant. Did you take the time to read the clips on abuse at gitmo?

Deb I have studied this subject quite extensively. From the sounds of things those on the other side have not. I even sat through the whole 119 minutes of senate hearings on the subject and have come to realize that there are two Americas. The Pre-911 America and the Post 911 America.

Closing GITMO is not a good idea. And as far as holding enemy combatants until the end of a conflict is not something new. In fact it has been a regular practice since the Geneva convention days.

I am not saying hold them forever, but until the conflict is over and there is absolutely no way that they can return to the battle field again then I say hold them until the war is over. YES IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN ar...

Deb I have studied this subject quite extensively. From the sounds of things those on the other side have not. I even sat through the whole 119 minutes of senate hearings on the subject and have come to realize that there are two Americas. The Pre-911 America and the Post 911 America.

Closing GITMO is not a good idea. And as far as holding enemy combatants until the end of a conflict is not something new. In fact it has been a regular practice since the Geneva convention days.

I am not saying hold them forever, but until the conflict is over and there is absolutely no way that they can return to the battle field again then I say hold them until the war is over. YES IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN are wars, congress said so and so did Barry.

So then the question is do we function like we had in past conflicts or function like we did under Carter and Clinton. I remember life under Carter and BARRY is the reincarnation of CARTER but twice as bad.

Under CLINTON we had the TREAT ENEMIES as CRIMINALS mentality. WHICH is the primary reason Bin Ladin is still walking around (however I personally think he is dead). Clinton had numerous opportunities to capture him but BECAUSE THERE WAS NOT ENOUGH EVIDENCE to hold him as a CRIMINAL he did not. We can not treat wars like a crime scene. IT IS A BATTLEFIELD.

But none the less to acquies to your view point, while opperating under the program your side expouses because you believe that GITMO is somehow escalating the hostility towards us. WELL then how do you explain that while under Clinton (and the program you guys want to restart) America was attacked several times both on shore and around the world. But under GITMO there has been no other terrorist attack on our shores or against any American interest?

Of course facts does not matter to those on the left.

My arguments are the same that were espoused by two panel members at the Senate hearings. Almost word for word, of course they are more LEARNED than myself.

But I know exactly how these Senate hearings operate under an OBAMA administration. There were those who were very vocal about shutting down GITMO and went through all their legal mumbo jumbo but no one ever denied the facts put forth by the other two panelists.

Now if I want to promote an idea I find several people who think the same way I do and then find one or two who do not and call a PANEL. I let the panel discuss their viewpoints and then I pick out the ones who agree with me to HIGHLIGHT chosen questions and be sure they EMPHASIZE that my IDEA is the right one. I allow limited rebuttal from the opposing view points and only ask them questions that really has nothing to do with my po...

But I know exactly how these Senate hearings operate under an OBAMA administration. There were those who were very vocal about shutting down GITMO and went through all their legal mumbo jumbo but no one ever denied the facts put forth by the other two panelists.

Now if I want to promote an idea I find several people who think the same way I do and then find one or two who do not and call a PANEL. I let the panel discuss their viewpoints and then I pick out the ones who agree with me to HIGHLIGHT chosen questions and be sure they EMPHASIZE that my IDEA is the right one. I allow limited rebuttal from the opposing view points and only ask them questions that really has nothing to do with my position.

I then file a report and say that the MAJORITY of the experts in the field AGREE WITH ME. Thereby ending all discussion on the topic.

I can find many who will tell me what I want to hear, and many who have no freaking idea what they are talking about, but there are very few who have no dog in the fight who actually take the time to research and consider all alternatives and put forth a SOUND REASONED response.

I can chose to listen to the sound reasoned responses or just go with the unlearned masses.

and your comment about NO ONE IS CONSIDERING releasing detainees in AMERICA is not true. That very thing is being considered by BO himself.

Your statement concerning the constitutionality of the Bush administration detainee practices is also incorrect. The court had reviewed all policies and found them LEGAL and constitutional. They even found PRECEDENT in the proceedures.

As far as the abuse reports did you read the reports showing the CURRENT STATE of prisoner care at GITMO? I bet not. They are treated better than many of our own citizens and afforded rights not given to our own citizenry. They are not being abused at GITMO. In fact they are being treated probably better than they were their whole lives.

Are there some INNOCENT amongst the guilty. Perhaps but like you already said a larger number of DETAINEes have been rele...

Your statement concerning the constitutionality of the Bush administration detainee practices is also incorrect. The court had reviewed all policies and found them LEGAL and constitutional. They even found PRECEDENT in the proceedures.

As far as the abuse reports did you read the reports showing the CURRENT STATE of prisoner care at GITMO? I bet not. They are treated better than many of our own citizens and afforded rights not given to our own citizenry. They are not being abused at GITMO. In fact they are being treated probably better than they were their whole lives.

Are there some INNOCENT amongst the guilty. Perhaps but like you already said a larger number of DETAINEes have been released than remain. Therefore I would believe there is a greater chance of the remaining detainees to be ACTUALLY guilty of something than innocent of everything.

Should they have a hearing? I really do not know to be honest. I think once the hostilities have ended and our soldiers come home from IRAQ then I say release them into the care of the IRAQ!s to have them deal with them.

These are not PEACE TIME detainees but WAR CRIMINALS.

And in conclusion remember VIETNAM. This new policy which actually is an old failed policy of the past will turn this war on terrorism into OBAMA's Vietnam. I shall pray for our service men and women.

I think your point eaglewings about them being prisoners of war is actually the most telling. I wonder if we had called gitmo a POW camp would we even be having this discussion. Why did Bush choose not to call it that? You are correct that the Bill of Rights does not apply to non-Americans situated outside U.S. territory, From a 2005 Andrew Sullivan article, the McCain ammendment nullified this fact for enemy combatants. "The Supreme Court, which authoritatively decides what constitutional provisions mean, has already decided that the lack of Miranda warnings renders interrogation unconstitutiona...

I think your point eaglewings about them being prisoners of war is actually the most telling. I wonder if we had called gitmo a POW camp would we even be having this discussion. Why did Bush choose not to call it that? You are correct that the Bill of Rights does not apply to non-Americans situated outside U.S. territory, From a 2005 Andrew Sullivan article, the McCain ammendment nullified this fact for enemy combatants. "The Supreme Court, which authoritatively decides what constitutional provisions mean, has already decided that the lack of Miranda warnings renders interrogation unconstitutionally coercive in violation of the Fifth Amendment. As a result, failing to provide Miranda rights is sure to be found by many federal judges to be a form of lawless coercive interrogation that fits within McCain’s prohibition against cruel, unusual, and inhumane treatment." So as the law currently stands, there is no choice, unless you are a president chooses to stand above the law. If these guys were designated POWs, as you said, their treatment would be monitored by the Red Cross and their rights would be those laid out in the Geneva Convention. This would have been my preferred position.

To save time and posting space I will summarize my responses to DEB in one post.

DEB I think we agree on most issues. I am not a McCain fan. IN fact in the last election we were given the choice of voting for a democrat or a democrat pretending to be a republican.

There really wasn't a choice for us true blue conservatives. However there was no way I could have voted for Obama. His ideology and policy stance is contrary to everything I believe in and hold dear.

You basically said it all when you stated that you voted for Obama with no regrets. That saddens me but shows I need to pray all the more for the American citizens.

Your citation of McCains foolish bills still does not change th...

To save time and posting space I will summarize my responses to DEB in one post.

DEB I think we agree on most issues. I am not a McCain fan. IN fact in the last election we were given the choice of voting for a democrat or a democrat pretending to be a republican.

There really wasn't a choice for us true blue conservatives. However there was no way I could have voted for Obama. His ideology and policy stance is contrary to everything I believe in and hold dear.

You basically said it all when you stated that you voted for Obama with no regrets. That saddens me but shows I need to pray all the more for the American citizens.

Your citation of McCains foolish bills still does not change the facts that closing GITMO is just plan stupid.

Just because the Supreme Court ruled a stupid law is constitutional or that a sound law is unconstitutional does not mean that steps should not be taken to enact better laws or reverse poor court rulings. The Supreme court has riled against the constitution in many instances since the countries founding which is all the more reason why the President and Congress should make every effort to seat Supreme Court judges who are strict constructionist judges. BUT BECAUSE even the courts have been politicized since FDR days there is not much hope of this changing until we get some REAL Conservative leaders back in this country.

and finally to reiterate turning a WAR into a POLICE action is suicide. It did not work in the past, it will not work in the present, and it will only leave us less SECURE not more secure.

Unlike you however I do not wish to submit our COUNTRIES sovereignty to foreign laws and practices. Just because it is good enough for FRANCE does not mean it is the RIGHT policy to enact. After all it did not work for the French and it will not work here either, which just our recent past indicates. Countries hated us before there was a GITMO and they will hate us after GITMO.